Injury Report: #2: Nolan Patrick Migraine Disorder (Sep. 26, '19); 1-year $874,125 qualifying offer (Oct. 16, '20)

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Graph time

Graphs are too simple and easy to understand. Could we just go back blind ball washing of authority figures

 

[GapToothedWonder]

It plummeted when Hextall brought in Knoblauch. Therrien so far may be even worse than Knoblauch, but Knoblauch was pretty bad too. He was the one who screwed our PP.

NuAnCe

NoT hYpErBoLiC

UnBiAsEd

 

[freakydallas13]

Graph time

While I don't want to downplay the fact that a 22% percent drop in pp production is huge (it is, Therrien absolutely needs to be fired), I feel the need to point out this graph is statistically correct but visually misleading.

It should really look like this:

(values approximate, not exact)

 

[Alex91]

Power plays need to advance with time. when flyers PP was so successful It was because we were one of the first teams to run a new age umbrella, and were the second team (Detroit) to master the sling shot drop pass for easy zone entry. Both those things get defended easily now because every team ran them and knew what to expect

 

[Striiker]

While I don't want to downplay the fact that a 22% percent drop in pp production is huge (it is, Therrien absolutely needs to be fired), I feel the need to point out this graph is statistically correct but visually misleading.

It should really look like this:

(values approximate, not exact)

For what it’s worth, I didn’t change it to look like that. It’s just how it came out when I put in the values on the website. Bar Graph Maker | Create a bar chart online

Either way, it makes the same point. On both graphs it’s glaringly obvious that there’s a significant drop.

 

[freakydallas13]

For what it’s worth, I didn’t change it to look like that. It’s just how it came out when I put in the values on the website. Bar Graph Maker | Create a bar chart online

Either way, it makes the same point. On both graphs it’s glaringly obvious that there’s a significant drop.

Oh for sure, not trying to blame you. Just pointing out that the way the graph was generated makes it look even worse than it is.

Which is quite the feat, seeing as the pp results this year were already abysmal.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Power plays need to advance with time. when flyers PP was so successful It was because we were one of the first teams to run a new age umbrella, and were the second team (Detroit) to master the sling shot drop pass for easy zone entry. Both those things get defended easily now because every team ran them and knew what to expect

So what you are saying is the PP coach has failed to modernize the PP? Sounds like a bad PP coach.

 

[Alex91]

So what you are saying is the PP coach has failed to modernize the PP? Sounds like a bad PP coach.

Yah for sure, but I also wonder if we lack speed and creativity to change.

Frost and Brink should change that

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Yah for sure, but I also wonder if we lack speed and creativity to change.

Frost and Brink should change that

You think that if the Flyers had the best (in your mind) PP coach in the league that the roster doesn't have the raw talent to execute that system to at least a league average level?

 

[x DeCruze]

You think that if the Flyers had the best (in your mind) PP coach in the league that the roster doesn't have the raw talent to execute that system to at least a league average level?

I feel like the PP is so dependent to give G the puck. They're so insistent that he runs it and every opposing team just takes away his space. The entries we have are terrible. When we finally do set up, there's not enough guys skating. Everyone is standing still.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

I feel like the PP is so dependent to give G the puck. They're so insistent that he runs it and every opposing team just takes away his space. The entries we have are terrible. When we finally do set up, there's not enough guys skating. Everyone is standing still.

sooooo

Do you think that if the Flyers had the best (in your mind) PP coach in the league would the roster doesn't have the raw talent to execute that system to at least a league average level?

 

[Striiker]

If the Flyers ran the exact PP they had in 2017-2018 and prior, with the only change being Simmonds, it still would've been extremely successful.

The problem wasn't the scheme, the problem was taking guys out of their spots and the changed personnel.

Giroux, Voracek, and Ghost being where they belong is all we need for an amazing PP. Everything else is swappable.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

If the Flyers ran the exact PP they had in 2017-2018 and prior, with the only change being Simmonds, it still would've been extremely successful.

The problem wasn't the scheme, the problem was taking guys out of their spots and the changed personnel.

Giroux, Voracek, and Ghost being where they belong is all we need for an amazing PP. Everything else is swappable.

That I don't agree with, I think we need the setup you advocate for but I think its important that they create more off puck motion. Giroux is too good of a passer and has too good of visions and IQ to have a simplified PP with minimal off puck movement. We need to start sliding players into open space and then run rotations based off which of those players G moves to puck too.

Setting TK up at the net and allowing him to slide low into the corners and then creating secondary motions based off if G moves the puck to TK right away or waits until the next motion in the set happens will create tons of issues for PK's.

They also need to stop staking G the bumper and Vora in a line through the center of the ice. This allows the near side PK forward to take away two passing lanes a once, and in turn the back side forward can either play higher to cheat toward the passing lane from the D to Vora, or cheat towards the half way to make the wrap around pass harder (I hate that pass anyways), the PK forward can start closer to the wall and thus Vora has less time to collect the puck and move it.

Just staggering those two more aggressively either way creates more lanes to move pucks through and makes it harder for the D. Better yet have TK slide to the corner, when V sees that he starts to crash the net, G can either then send the puck to TK down low or try to look for a lane to a streaking V heading towards the back door.

If the puck goes to TK, G could crash towards the net, when the bumper sees G make that move they bounce outside towards G's spot. Then TK can try to hit a crashing G or funnel it to V on the backdoor or to the bumper heading to the half wall, if there is no good passing or shooting option you reset.

Not saying it needs to be run exactly like that but that sort of organized creativity has been lacking in the PP. We can keep the current set up, with the players in the spots you would like to see but they need to start creating lots more questions for the PKers, make the PKer's rotate, switch and force them to make quick decisions and tons more space will open up.

But that is 100% on coaching, if they start to implement something like that and players don't execute, fine we can start to look at personal and formations but as it stands right now they could radically change their formation and personal and they would still need tons more creativity from the coaching staff once they were established in that formation.

 

[deadhead]

I notice no one has an explanation for why everyone on BOTH units shot so well this past season.
If it was just Provorov, you'd say it's an outlier, but when it's everyone, something else may be going on.

And you know something is happening but you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

 

[Striiker]

That I don't agree with, I think we need the setup you advocate for but I think its important that they create more off puck motion. Giroux is too good of a passer and has too good of visions and IQ to have a simplified PP with minimal off puck movement. We need to start sliding players into open space and then run rotations based off which of those players G moves to puck too.

Setting TK up at the net and allowing him to slide low into the corners and then creating secondary motions based off if G moves the puck to TK right away or waits until the next motion in the set happens will create tons of issues for PK's.

They also need to stop staking G the bumper and Vora in a line through the center of the ice. This allows the near side PK forward to take away two passing lanes a once, and in turn the back side forward can either play higher to cheat toward the passing lane from the D to Vora, or cheat towards the half way to make the wrap around pass harder (I hate that pass anyways), the PK forward can start closer to the wall and thus Vora has less time to collect the puck and move it.

Just staggering those two more aggressively either way creates more lanes to move pucks through and makes it harder for the D. Better yet have TK slide to the corner, when V sees that he starts to crash the net, G can either then send the puck to TK down low or try to look for a lane to a streaking V heading towards the back door.

If the puck goes to TK, G could crash towards the net, when the bumper sees G make that move they bounce outside towards G's spot. Then TK can try to hit a crashing G or funnel it to V on the backdoor or to the bumper heading to the half wall, if there is no good passing or shooting option you reset.

Not saying it needs to be run exactly like that but that sort of organized creativity has been lacking in the PP. We can keep the current set up, with the players in the spots you would like to see but they need to start creating lots more questions for the PKers, make the PKer's rotate, switch and force them to make quick decisions and tons more space will open up.

But that is 100% on coaching, if they start to implement something like that and players don't execute, fine we can start to look at personal and formations but as it stands right now they could radically change their formation and personal and they would still need tons more creativity from the coaching staff once they were established in that formation.

I don't disagree with any of this.

Just to be clear, my point in that post wasn't that there shouldn't/couldn't be improvements. I just meant that, even if we changed literally nothing else, the PP would've still been fine so long as they didn't screw with those three players in their specific spots. That moving them from their spots is what caused the drop off this year, not that the scheme they'd been running year after year after year suddenly stopped working. Even if there's flaws with it, those three could have made it work just based on their individual ability alone.

I'm just disagreeing with the notion that the PP was already completely broken long before the Giroux/Voracek/Ghost sabotage and that it was necessary to make drastic changes. Even in their most recent sample where those three were together right before Hakstol got fired, they were playing really well and getting tons of chances. They just didn't have any finishing luck.

 

[Starat327]

I don't disagree with any of this.

Just to be clear, my point in that post wasn't that there shouldn't/couldn't be improvements. I just meant that, even if we changed literally nothing else, the PP would've still been fine so long as they didn't screw with those three players in their specific spots. That moving them from their spots is what caused the drop off this year, not that the scheme they'd been running year after year after year suddenly stopped working. Even if there's flaws with it, those three could have made it work just based on their individual ability alone.

I'm just disagreeing with the notion that the PP was already completely broken long before the Giroux/Voracek/Ghost sabotage and that it was necessary to make drastic changes. Even in their most recent sample where those three were together right before Hakstol got fired, they were playing really well and getting tons of chances. They just didn't have any finishing luck.

Remind me where you got your degree in Dentistry, again?

 

[pooch]

I notice no one has an explanation for why everyone on BOTH units shot so well this past season.
If it was just Provorov, you'd say it's an outlier, but when it's everyone, something else may be going on.

And you know something is happening but you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

These kids dont know Dylan...come on.

 

[Curufinwe]

Jost also signed his QO, and he had 27 points in 69 games.

Tyson Jost - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[DancingPanther]

These kids dont know Dylan...come on.

Yes I do.

How about this one?

"Feel so suicidal, just like Dylan's Mr. Jones"

 

[renberg]

The PP will not get better until the Flyers has someone who is (1) willing to get in front of the goalie to block his sight and bang in rebounds. JVR could do this but prefers to play mostly on the side of the net not in front of it. (2) get better at making and receiving passes. Too many times they handle the puck like its hand grenade and either can't take the pass or wait to get rid of it to someone else who probably is in worse position to take a shot (3) shoot the puck on the net; too many Jeff Carter high and wide shots. A hard shot counts but not that much if it isn't on goal.

 

[pooch]

Yes I do.

How about this one?

"Feel so suicidal, just like Dylan's Mr. Jones"

Such an underrated song.

 

[Striiker]

The PP will not get better until the Flyers has someone who is (1) willing to get in front of the goalie to block his sight and bang in rebounds. JVR could do this but prefers to play mostly on the side of the net not in front of it. (2) get better at making and receiving passes. Too many times they handle the puck like its hand grenade and either can't take the pass or wait to get rid of it to someone else who probably is in worse position to take a shot (3) shoot the puck on the net; too many Jeff Carter high and wide shots. A hard shot counts but not that much if it isn't on goal.

I've got great news for you. I have solutions to all 3 problems

1) Patrick. He was great there when he replaced Simmonds in his rookie year.

2) remove Provorov because he's awful at it. He's also horrendous at keeping the puck in the zone.

3) add Ghost. Not even because of his shot but because his quick/creative/decisive puck moving makes shooting easier for the forwards, who currently have to either a) rush their shots, or b) try to shoot on a set/stationary goalie because of the poor/slow/predictable PP puck moving by Provorov.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

The PP will not get better until the Flyers has someone who is (1) willing to get in front of the goalie to block his sight and bang in rebounds. JVR could do this but prefers to play mostly on the side of the net not in front of it. (2) get better at making and receiving passes. Too many times they handle the puck like its hand grenade and either can't take the pass or wait to get rid of it to someone else who probably is in worse position to take a shot (3) shoot the puck on the net; too many Jeff Carter high and wide shots. A hard shot counts but not that much if it isn't on goal.

We don't have a Wayne Simmonds right now, which I think is part of the reason the PP before this year was producing chances but not scoring like they used too. Simmonds forced defenders to keep their box lower which gave G more room to operate and Ghost more room to walk into one timers. Hopefully Patrick can be impactful in front of the net but until they find out they need to adjust and find other ways to create space.

They aren't humbling pucks or missing because they suddenly can't play hockey. It's because they are being forced to send each other low percentage saucer passes or zipping passes through tight lanes, they receive passes with minimal time before they are being checked so it's hard to take that half second longer to get off an accurate shot or pass. You can't stand still and play catch with the puck against the sort of higher pressure PK currently popular in the NHL. Haven't you noticed the PP looks better every time the Flyers play a team that run a passive box? The coaching needs to be better.

 

[Rebels57]

We don't have a Wayne Simmonds right now, which I think is part of the reason the PP before this year was producing chances but not scoring like they used too. Simmonds forced defenders to keep their box lower which gave G more room to operate and Ghost more room to walk into one timers. Hopefully Patrick can be impactful in front of the net but until they find out they need to adjust and find other ways to create space.

They aren't humbling pucks or missing because they suddenly can't play hockey. It's because they are being forced to send each other low percentage saucer passes or zipping passes through tight lanes, they receive passes with minimal time before they are being checked so it's hard to take that half second longer to get off an accurate shot or pass. You can't stand still and play catch with the puck against the sort of higher pressure PK currently popular in the NHL. Haven't you noticed the PP looks better every time the Flyers play a team that run a passive box? The coaching needs to be better.

I don't understand why JVR is not being used in this way.

He's massive with good hands and great hand-eye coordination.

 

[deadhead]

I don't understand why JVR is not being used in this way.

He's massive with good hands and great hand-eye coordination.

JVR, like Voracek is a bit allergic to contact. Voracek played more physical this year, and in the playoffs, and the result was his best hockey in a long time - when you're 6'3 210 and lost a stride or two, it behooves you to use that body and go to the net.

JVR likes to park near the net, where he's hard to move, and wait for a pass and a quick shot, but he doesn't seem eager to get right on top of the blue paint and the punishment that goes with that role (cross checks, slashes, wrestling, lots of hits).

The two guys who will do that are Lindblom and Patrick. Another guy who does that in the SHL is Sandin.