Injury Report: #2: Nolan Patrick Migraine Disorder (Sep. 26, '19); 1-year $874,125 qualifying offer (Oct. 16, '20)

[Rebels57]

JVR, like Voracek is a bit allergic to contact. Voracek played more physical this year, and in the playoffs, and the result was his best hockey in a long time - when you're 6'3 210 and lost a stride or two, it behooves you to use that body and go to the net.

JVR likes to park near the net, where he's hard to move, and wait for a pass and a quick shot, but he doesn't seem eager to get right on top of the blue paint and the punishment that goes with that role (cross checks, slashes, wrestling, lots of hits).

The two guys who will do that are Lindblom and Patrick. Another guy who does that in the SHL is Sandin.

That's what coaching is for though. He's going on his 3rd season back with the club and they still haven't properly utilized him on the PP. Instead our coaching has encouraged him to play more off to the side.

I agree on Lindblom and Patrick and from what i've seen of Sandin.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

I don't understand why JVR is not being used in this way.

He's massive with good hands and great hand-eye coordination.

I think the problem with JVR is though big he doesn't seem the create the sort of physical issues that Simmonds did. JVR's bread and butter seems to be more tips and deflections and scoring in tight if given some time and space. What made Simmonds so good is that he could create his own time and space with his physicality, to counter that PK's would need to sit a defender right on top of him, you couldn't collapse down to him and disrupt him after puck movement the way they seem to be able to with JVR. Not that JVR isn't a very good PP player and net front guy in his own right, just that he isn't going to create those tiny seam by getting leverage and physically overpowering defenders the way Simmonds would.

 

[VladDrag]

Over the last three seasons on the power play, JvR has had the highest iHDCF/60. This stat is mostly location derived. He's absolutely been an elite net-front guy over the past three seasons. If you leave him alone, he's going to score there.

He uses his body extremely effectively, but because he doesn't hit people think he's a wimp.

 

[deadhead]

That's what coaching is for though. He's going on his 3rd season back with the club and they still haven't properly utilized him on the PP. Instead our coaching has encouraged him to play more off to the side.

I agree on Lindblom and Patrick and from what i've seen of Sandin.

It's also a mentalite, some players gravitate to dirty areas, others are more finesse.

JVR, like Hayes and Voracek, uses his body more to shield the puck than to force play, he doesn't really park in front of goalies and set screens - what made Simmonds a pain in the ass was not just his ability to sink rebounds, but his persistence, you'd cross check him and he'd just bounce off and twist back in front of the goalie - so you had two or more bodies blocking the goalie's vision.

Lindblom and Patrick are fearless, so is Farabee, but he's so undersized he just gets shoved out the play right now, in a couple years, when he grows up, he'll be a similar player in terms of style.

TK goes to the net, but he looks for open space for obvious reasons, if he sets a screen, the goalie will just look over him. And he's not going to win a lot of wrestling matches in front of the net.

 

[dingbathero]

#1
Coots

roo - jvr - voracek

Gus / Ghost (if still here)

#2
Hayes

tk - Patrick - lindblom

Sanhiem


Is this too Krazy Kat?

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Over the last three seasons on the power play, JvR has had the highest iHDCF/60. This stat is mostly location derived. He's absolutely been an elite net-front guy over the past three seasons. If you leave him alone, he's going to score there.

He uses his body extremely effectively, but because he doesn't hit people think he's a wimp.

That's not what I am saying, I am not saying you can leave JVR alone in front of the net, and I don't think JVR isn't physical at all, but he does not play the same way Simmonds did when at his peak PP efficiency. I don't think Simmonds had the puck skills that JVR has, but if you lost body position on him it was a nightmare to get it back, you couldn't sag off him the way I think you can with JVR. And again JVR is still physical, but Simmonds was a freak in that department. Either way they need to find a way to stretch PK's more because currently its too easy for the non pressuring players on opponents PK's.

Edit: There are lots of videos of all the goals by both players each season, go watch them JVR definitely has defenseman sag off him a lot more, I think part of it is they understand that they can't really stop the tips by staying beside him and his ability to tip and deflect pucks is more dangerous then his ability to collect rebounds and box out players to create scoring chances, I feel like the opposite is true for Simmonds.

 

[VladDrag]

That's not what I am saying, I am not saying you can leave JVR alone in front of the net, and I don't think JVR isn't physical at all, but he does not play the same way Simmonds did when at his peak PP efficiency. I don't think Simmonds had the puck skills that JVR has, but if you lost body position on him it was a nightmare to get it back, you couldn't sag off him the way I think you can with JVR. And again JVR is still physical, but Simmonds was a freak in that department. Either way they need to find a way to stretch PK's more because currently its too easy for the non pressuring players on opponents PK's.

Edit: There are lots of videos of all the goals by both players each season, go watch them JVR definitely has defenseman sag off him a lot more, I think part of it is they understand that they can't really stop the tips by staying beside him and his ability to tip and deflect pucks is more dangerous then his ability to collect rebounds and box out players to create scoring chances, I feel like the opposite is true for Simmonds.

My point is really that I don't care how either player scores their PP goals - as long as it's repeatable. What I really meant was that the Flyers have an elite net-front player in JvR, and it's not a problem. It was stated, not by you, that the Flyers didn't have one.

There's no doubt that they go about their business differently, JvR is smarter than Simmonds, and Simmonds is more brute, but the outcome is the same - and that's what matters - generation of repeatable high quality chances from danger areas.

I have said this about JvR a lot - his offensive IQ is incredibly underrated. He has an ability to find the seams and weak spots in the defense. You can't turn your head against him, because he'll reposition slightly to the open lane and tap the puck in. That's just as effective as as Simmonds style.

Personally, if healthy, I would like to Patrick as net front on PP1. I think he's got the same type of ability as JvR, but brings an element of passing from behind the net that JvR doesn't quite have.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

My point is really that I don't care how either player scores their PP goals - as long as it's repeatable. What I really meant was that the Flyers have an elite net-front player in JvR, and it's not a problem. It was stated, not by you, that the Flyers didn't have one.

There's no doubt that they go about their business differently, JvR is smarter than Simmonds, and Simmonds is more brute, but the outcome is the same - and that's what matters - generation of repeatable high quality chances from danger areas.

I have said this about JvR a lot - his offensive IQ is incredibly underrated. He has an ability to find the seams and weak spots in the defense. You can't turn your head against him, because he'll reposition slightly to the open lane and tap the puck in. That's just as effective as as Simmonds style.

Personally, if healthy, I would like to Patrick as net front on PP1. I think he's got the same type of ability as JvR, but brings an element of passing from behind the net that JvR doesn't quite have.

Well my post is literally about how the difference in playing styles between the two players means the PP needs to be operated differently to take advantage of those attributes to open up more space.

I never questioned JVR physicality or IQ. Never compared their effectiveness as PP players, just talked about how their personal styles effect the spacing when it comes to PKer's.

So I'm not really sure what you and me are having a conversation about, you keep quoting my posts but then not really engaging in what I am talking about.

Edit: How they create their HDC does matter because it has effects on spacing.

 

[Flyer lurker]

#1
Coots

roo - jvr - voracek

Gus / Ghost (if still here)

#2
Hayes

tk - Patrick - lindblom

Sanhiem


Is this too Krazy Kat?

If you asking me do I have a problem with these lineup and my reply is I am more than ok with it. Do I think AV on pp1 will play one d-man and that d-man is poor on the defensive side and I doubt it.

 

[renberg]

The two guys who will do that are Lindblom and Patrick. Another guy who does that in the SHL is Sandin.

I’m not cool with the idea of putting a guy with head issues, like Patrick has had, into a Tim Kerr role in front of the goalie.

 

[VladDrag]

Well my post is literally about how the difference in playing styles between the two players means the PP needs to be operated differently to take advantage of those attributes to open up more space.

I never questioned JVR physicality or IQ. Never compared their effectiveness as PP players, just talked about how their personal styles effect the spacing when it comes to PKer's.

So I'm not really sure what you and me are having a conversation about, you keep quoting my posts but then not really engaging in what I am talking about.

Edit: How they create their HDC does matter because it has effects on spacing.

My original comment was not directed at you, it was a general comment re JVR as a net front guy. And, I quoted you one time, after you quoted me.

 

[deadhead]

M
I have said this about JvR a lot - his offensive IQ is incredibly underrated. He has an ability to find the seams and weak spots in the defense. You can't turn your head against him, because he'll reposition slightly to the open lane and tap the puck in. That's just as effective as as Simmonds style.

Personally, if healthy, I would like to Patrick as net front on PP1. I think he's got the same type of ability as JvR, but brings an element of passing from behind the net that JvR doesn't quite have.

It's not as effective as Simmonds for this reason, the net front guy does more than score on tip ins and rebounds, his real role is to create traffic in front of the goalie to obstruct his vision and throw him off his game. We've seen that work against Flyer goalies with our undersized D-men, there's a reason Cooper wants big boys on defense in TB to clear the crease and Trotz was sending 220 lb forwards at the net.

 

[dingbathero]

If you asking me do I have a problem with these lineup and my reply is I am more than ok with it. Do I think AV on pp1 will play one d-man and that d-man is poor on the defensive side and I doubt it.

Nothing like AV using that player in the best possible situation to succeed based on the D-man's skill set.....

 

[dingbathero]

I’m not cool with the idea of putting a guy with head issues, like Patrick has had, into a Tim Kerr role in front of the goalie.

If Patrick can't go-who would fill the net front presence on PP2?

Swap Lindblom in and put Farabee on the half wall would make the most sense.

 

[Striiker]

Patrick’s migraines really have nothing to do with playing net front on the PP.

It’s really not any more dangerous there than anywhere else. Unless we’re worrying about him being hit in the head with a puck, which is dangerous for anyone in that spot.

 

[Starat327]

Patrick’s migraines really have nothing to do with playing net front on the PP.

It’s really not any more dangerous there than anywhere else. Unless we’re worrying about him being hit in the head with a puck, which is dangerous for anyone in that spot.

Depending on his condition, the "whiplash" from constant cross checks to the back (lets face it, that happens to whoever parks there) could have an effect on his migraines.

None of us know anywhere NEARLY enough to confirm that that's the case for his specific condition though. I've said it before and I'll say it again - migraines arent like typical ailments where you take a pill and it goes away, or you do rehab and it gets better. You could put me and another migraine sensitive person in a room, blast us with bright lights and I could be perfectly fine while the person next to me collapses in a heap. Every single case is so different.

 

[Striiker]

Depending on his condition, the "whiplash" from constant cross checks to the back (lets face it, that happens to whoever parks there) could have an effect on his migraines.

None of us know anywhere NEARLY enough to confirm that that's the case for his specific condition though. I've said it before and I'll say it again - migraines arent like typical ailments where you take a pill and it goes away, or you do rehab and it gets better. You could put me and another migraine sensitive person in a room, blast us with bright lights and I could be perfectly fine while the person next to me collapses in a heap. Every single case is so different.

I thought about that but I’d assume that if that’s something that’s a problem he’s likely not playing to start with.

He’s going to get checked and bumped all game long anyways, not just in that spot, so if that’s too risky then he probably shouldn’t be in at all.

 

[Starat327]

I thought about that but I’d assume that if that’s something that’s a problem he’s likely not playing to start with.

He’s going to get checked and bumped all game long anyways, not just in that spot, so if that’s too risky then he probably shouldn’t be in at all.

Correct, but different motions, and different repetitions have different effects. Specificailly, the idea of a cross check in that position CAN put increased stress on the cervical vertebrae due to the body forward, neck back reaction to such a hit. Trauma to these vertebrae in particular could cause an increase depending on an individuals migraine triggers that wouldnt happen, for instance, in a chest to chest type hit.

Again, stressing that im not qualified to speak to his individual case in the slightest.

 

[Adtar02]

Depending on his condition, the "whiplash" from constant cross checks to the back (lets face it, that happens to whoever parks there) could have an effect on his migraines.

None of us know anywhere NEARLY enough to confirm that that's the case for his specific condition though. I've said it before and I'll say it again - migraines arent like typical ailments where you take a pill and it goes away, or you do rehab and it gets better. You could put me and another migraine sensitive person in a room, blast us with bright lights and I could be perfectly fine while the person next to me collapses in a heap. Every single case is so different.

Something so inconclusive can only be one thing.....

 

[Starat327]

Something so inconclusive can only be one thing.....


View attachment 373559

Please do not burn me. I assure you, whatever causes these things is of absolutely no benefit to me whatsoever, and causes more than enough pain that I dont need to be punished further. Me blacking out and collapsing is not because a demon took over my body, or anything of the such.

 

[Adtar02]

Please do not burn me. I assure you, whatever causes these things is of absolutely no benefit to me whatsoever, and causes more than enough pain that I dont need to be punished further. Me blacking out and collapsing is not because a demon took over my body, or anything of the such.

Sorry trying to make a joke to lighten it up. Clearly it’s something we no very little about. But we aren’t living in the Middle Ages either.

 

[Starat327]

Sorry trying to make a joke to lighten it up. Clearly it’s something we no very little about. But we aren’t living in the Middle Ages either.

I know. Im just asking that you dont set me aflame because of it. Though, there are days (not so much anymore) that setting me on fire may hurt less.

 

[Chinatown88]

I know. Im just asking that you dont set me aflame because of it. Though, there are days (not so much anymore) that setting me on fire may hurt less.

Your political campaign was aflame for a bit in the soccer/football thread.

 

[Starat327]

Your political campaign was aflame for a bit in the soccer/football thread.

HC an I will always hug it out. Sometimes its good for the people to see that we're not the same person with the same thoughts. Diversity of thought is key to any campaign!

Just like in any relationship, if you arent fighting, you arent communicating.

 

[Adtar02]

I know. Im just asking that you dont set me aflame because of it. Though, there are days (not so much anymore) that setting me on fire may hurt less.

To be fair.... we would have to see if you float first.