GDT: #19 | FLYERS (A) vs. Penguins (H) | Tue., Mar. 2 | 7:00 pm ET|NBCSN, SNE, SNO, SNW, ATTSN-PT, NBCSP

[Striiker]

Couts essentially played 1 game before getting hurt...1 game + 1 shift in game 2. He returned on Feb 7th.

On Feb 6th:

JVR 16 pts in 12 games
Farabee 9 pth in 12 games
Laughton 6 pts in 12 games

That line was producing with Laughton at C. So why not see if they can keep it going and free up Couts to play with other guys?

TK has seemed "off" and G has had poor luck. Why not see if those 3 can re-create their magic from before?

It's not like Hayes would play with trash. Hayes with Lindblom and Jake can be a great 2nd line.

It's about trying to maximize EVERYONES strengths while minimizing weaknesses. Giroux is by far our best passer. Having him with someone who doesn't pass the puck is stupid. Having him with someone like Lindblom doesn't matter much as Lindblom doesn't need the puck on his stick.

But you know all this. You just want to disagree because it's what you do.

Bingo.

Also, Giroux has 14 points in 16 games and not a single one was with Couturier on the ice. And that's with his current 3% shooting.

How's that for "dependent on Couturier for offensive production"?

In fact, he has a grand total of 4:31 with Couturier this entire year at 5v5 and yet he's still doing a fantastic job of play driving and generating scoring chances, having the top CF% and xGF% until Couturier just came back.

As for Jake, he has 13 points in 15 games and only 1 is with Couturier on the ice. So also complete nonsense.

 

[Jettany]

Nobody needs to “scapegoat” anything. Giroux's been our best player so far and his “mediocre” scoring is bad luck more than anything else. There’s nothing that needs to be defended.

Changing the lines is about the always present need to improve wherever possible, no matter how big or small the improvement is, and this just happens to be somewhere the team can improve.

I want the team to win as much as possible a having the best possible lines is part of that.

I love G but at this point he is not playing better than coots. That’s been for a while now. Also, I don’t see 2 goals in 34 games? As mediocre. That’s BAD production.

 

[Tripod]

They'll experiment with other line combinations when the time is right. There's little chance that the 1st line plus the Giroux-Hayes combo are together all season.

I dont know why everyone is so wound up over the lines the last 48 hours

It's not just the last 48 hours though. It's really easy to see that Giroux does not get the puck enough when he plays with Hayes...dating back to last year.

As you know, I don't rip on Hayes like others> I don't think Hayes makes G better...and Hayes doesn't make G better....that's all.

 

[Rebels57]

I love G but at this point he is not playing better than coots. That’s been for a while now. Also, I don’t see 2 goals in 34 games? As mediocre. That’s BAD production.

To be fair, G has looked very good this season. Goal wise he has been unlucky. Its not like the bubble where he wasnt having a big impact in most games. He's been one of the best forwards in most games this season.

 

[Rebels57]

It's not just the last 48 hours though. It's really easy to see that Giroux does not get the puck enough when he plays with Hayes...dating back to last year.

As you know, I don't rip on Hayes like others> I don't think Hayes makes G better...and Hayes doesn't make G better....that's all.

Lets give that duo a look with TK on the RW. Adding a shooter may be just what the doctor ordered.

 

[Jettany]

Couts essentially played 1 game before getting hurt...1 game + 1 shift in game 2. He returned on Feb 7th.

On Feb 6th:

JVR 16 pts in 12 games
Farabee 9 pth in 12 games
Laughton 6 pts in 12 games

That line was producing with Laughton at C. So why not see if they can keep it going and free up Couts to play with other guys?

TK has seemed "off" and G has had poor luck. Why not see if those 3 can re-create their magic from before?

It's not like Hayes would play with trash. Hayes with Lindblom and Jake can be a great 2nd line.

It's about trying to maximize EVERYONES strengths while minimizing weaknesses. Giroux is by far our best passer. Having him with someone who doesn't pass the puck is stupid. Having him with someone like Lindblom doesn't matter much as Lindblom doesn't need the puck on his stick.

But you know all this. You just want to disagree because it's what you do.

I think that’s a wise move. To get better production from G and Tk.
I think G has lost goal-scoring confidence. When you do that you play the perimeter a lot more. Which he seems to be doing.

 

[Jettany]

To be fair, G has looked very good this season. Goal wise he has been unlucky. Its not like the bubble where he wasnt having a big impact in most games. He's been one of the best forwards in most games this season.

I agree his play is much better now compared to the bubble. But right now he is not a better player than coots.

 

[Tripod]

Lets give that duo a look with TK on the RW. Adding a shooter may be just what the doctor ordered.

Won't matter much if Hayes won't pass to the passer or to the shooter....lol.

Trust me, I wish Hayes would "get it" and realize that less at times. I just have little hope....but also realize that he produces with lesser players too...like Laughton.

 

[Rebels57]

I agree his play is much better now compared to the bubble. But right now he is not a better player than coots.

Thats been the case for a few seasons now. Very few players in the NHL are better than Coots.

 

[Jettany]

Thats been the case for a few seasons now. Very few players in the NHL are better than Coots.

That’s what I commented on. A post saying G has been our best player.

 

[Rebels57]

That’s what I commented on. A post saying G has been our best player.

Yikes.

He's certainly been one of our best. Id have him behind our entire current 1st line though. Farabee has been the most efficient scorer at 5v5 in the NHL this season.

 

[Striiker]

I love G but at this point he is not playing better than coots. That’s been for a while now. Also, I don’t see 2 goals in 34 games? As mediocre. That’s BAD production.

Giroux has played at a very high level the entire year, including when Couturier was out, so this year he's the player who has added the most positive value to the team. In the few games he's played with Couturier in the lineup this year, he's played at a comparable level, so being in those games Couturier missed gives him the edge if we were handing out a team MVP award so far.

And as I said in that post: "his 'mediocre' scoring is bad luck more than anything else".

2 goals in 34 games would be bad production if that's what a players quality of play deserved, but he's simply been incredibly unlucky. During that time he's continued creating chances for others, racking up assists, driving play, and creating scoring chances for himself, but has shot 3%, which is obviously far off from his career normal shooting%. He's also hit close to 10 posts, which isn't even an exaggeration.

 

[Striiker]

Nobody said Giroux is a better player than Couturier.

Don't twist my words.

 

[Striiker]

I think that’s a wise move. To get better production from G and Tk.
I think G has lost goal-scoring confidence. When you do that you play the perimeter a lot more. Which he seems to be doing.

Doesn't look like it.

Here's his shot chart.

MoneyPuck.com -Shot Maps

Spoiler: If you'd like to compare, here is JVRs

On top of that, his high danger shot attempts per 60 minutes are nearly identical to last year. Before that, the last time they were higher was 2011-2012.

 

[Jettany]

Nobody said Giroux is a better player than Couturier.

Don't twist my words.

Your quote was, “giroux has been our best player so far”. How is that twisting your words?

 

[Striiker]

Your quote was, “giroux has been our best player so far”. How is that twisting your words?

Saying Giroux has been our best player so far is like saying Elliott has been our better goalie so far. It doesn't mean Elliott is a better player than Hart. It's about evaluating their impacts in a specific sample.

Difference is, it's not that Couturier has had a rough season like Hart has, instead that he missed a lot of time where Giroux was still in the lineup, helping the team, and playing great. Regardless, the point is still the same. As I also explained here, right above that post:

Giroux has played at a very high level the entire year, including when Couturier was out, so this year he's the player who has added the most positive value to the team. In the few games he's played with Couturier in the lineup this year, he's played at a comparable level, so being in those games Couturier missed gives him the edge if we were handing out a team MVP award so far.

So, again, Couturier is the better player, but if the season ended today and we were giving out a 2020-2021 MVP right now, it should go to Giroux.

 

[Jettany]

Doesn't look like it.

Here's his shot chart.

MoneyPuck.com -Shot Maps

Spoiler: If you'd like to compare, here is JVRs

On top of that, his high danger shot attempts per 60 minutes are nearly identical to last year. Before that, the last time they were higher was 2011-2012.

So according to that I’m wrong. It’s not what I’m seeing. He’s just lost his scoring touch then. Badly over the last couple hundred games.

He has 45 goals in hist last 200 games. That’s 18 goals a year. He’s never been a better goal score in my eyes in close then jvr.

 

[Jettany]

Saying Giroux has been our best player so far is like saying Elliott has been our better goalie so far. It doesn't mean Elliott is a better player than Hart. It's about evaluating their impacts in a specific sample.

Difference is, it's not that Couturier has had a rough season like Hart has, instead that he missed a lot of time where Giroux was still in the lineup, helping the team, and playing great. Regardless, the point is still the same. As I also explained here, right above that post:



So, again, Couturier is the better player, but if the season ended today and we were giving out a 2020-2021 MVP right now, it should go to Giroux.

That’s funny. Of course that’s what you meant. I guess you didn’t say it once last playoff, last year, the year before. This was the first time you made that statement.

 

[Striiker]

So according to that I’m wrong. It’s not what I’m seeing. He’s just lost his scoring touch then. Badly over the last couple hundred games.

He has 45 goals in hist last 200 games. That’s 18 goals a year. He’s never been a better goal score in my eyes in close then jvr.

What?

Giroux's goals/60 over the last few years...

So he lost his scoring touch but he scored goals at a higher rate last year than he had since 2013-2014 (ignoring 2017-2018 because his goal scoring was unsustainably high, just like this year it's unsustainably low).

 

[Striiker]

That’s funny. Of course that’s what you meant. I guess you didn’t say it once last playoff, last year, the year before. This was the first time you made that statement.

I've said Giroux's been our best player within certain samples (like in individual games or specific stretches of games) but, as I literally just explained to you, that's not the same thing as saying he's a better player than Couturier.

Just like I assume you'd say Provorov is a better player than Ghost but I'd hope you could admit that Ghost has been the better player this year.

There's a reason I specifically said "Giroux's been our best player so far" instead of "Giroux is our best player".

 

[Jettany]

The last 3 playoffs and 2 plus seasons he has 45 goals in 195 games. That’s 18 a year.

But it’s possible I just thought he was a better goal scorer then he really was. Maybe he never was. I’ll check his career in a bit.

 

[Jettany]

I've said Giroux's been our best player within certain samples (like in individual games or specific stretches of games) but, as I literally just explained to you, that's not the same thing as saying he's a better player than Couturier.

Just like I assume you'd say Provorov is a better player than Ghost but I'd hope you could admit that Ghost has been the better player this year.

There's a reason I specifically said "Giroux's been our best player so far" instead of "Giroux's is our best player".

Actually I’m not sure how good provy is. He’s stagnated.

 

[Striiker]

Dodging my point and nitpicking what was obviously just an example.

OK, guess we're done. I should've known better.

 

[Jettany]

What?

Giroux's goals/60 over the last few years...

So he lost his scoring touch but he scored goals at a higher rate last year than he had since 2013-2014 (ignoring 2017-2018 because his goal scoring was unsustainably high, just like this year it's unsustainably low).

I stand corrected. G really was never as good a goal scorer as I thought. 23 a year on average. 16 a year es. Not sure if that’s any good in comparison to the league.
Only 1 30 goal season in 12.

 

[Jettany]

Dodging my point and nitpicking what was obviously just an example.

OK, guess we're done. I should've known better.

What? I just said I’m not sure how good provorov is. How’s that dodging your point? Oh I know, it wasn’t the answer you wanted. Sorry.