18/19 MGMT thread VIIII

[TruGr1t]

Disagree..this is a team on the ascendant..no doubt about that (according to nearly all media sources)...The more the team improves, the more secure GM Benning is in his job...and the more secure in what I have to say..

Its not difficult to defend this team at all (unless you are in the 30 people HFVan negative bubble)..They are already punching above their weight and have been commended for it..The team is fun to watch ,and peeps are buying in...Bad news for the long time negative posters....(not seeing too many empty seats lately are we?).

Of course you disagree. You have an agenda. It is impossible to defend Benning's body of work to date outside of 3-4 draft picks that turned out well. Basically any GM in the history of the league should be expected to hit on a couple draft picks over five years. The pro-scouting work, and general managing of the NHL roster and contract situation, has been and remains piss poor. There's no other way to spin it. If you want to say "Benning is improving" you might have a bit of a better argument, though I don't see a lot of indication the work is improving at all at the NHL level.

If you continue to lower the bar and expections ... I suppose any degree of success looks commendable.

I will give it to you in a way that's easy to understand: I do not want the guys who built the current blue line running the team.

 

[4Twenty]

Your on the tank thread...Why don't you just come out and tell us what you really think of the team.? (**** ,or get off the pot)..once and for all...You're always riding the fence.

Pretty rich you're telling someone they can't ride the fence or have a nuanced opinion, while you've been complaining about 30 or so negative fan posters.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Pretty rich you're telling someone they can't ride the fence or have a nuanced opinion, while you've been complaining about 30 or so negative fan posters.

I'm not complaining about the 30 or so posters,...merely making an observation...They are entitled to their point of view, and it's a pointless exercise for me to even try and change it ...( although time and progress are not on their side,..and this season has been a victory for this management group).

 

[Peen]

I'm not complaining about the 30 or so posters,...merely making an observation...They are entitled to their point of view, and it's a pointless exercise for me to even try and change it ...( although time and progress are not on their side,..and this season has been a victory for this management group).

you mean this season where we have the same points at the ASB as the previous three years? and this odd ball season where the west is awful?

yeah ...

 

[absolute garbage]

Lmao this season a victory for this management group.

They were so terrible at their job that with another gifted lottery pick they finally lucked into a 100 point player making peanuts and are still 5 points away from being the worst team in the conference while 5 of the top 7 players on the team are inherited from previous administration that got canned 5 years ago.

In a normal season this team would need to go 18-4-4 rest of the way to have a shot at making the playoffs.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Of course you disagree. You have an agenda. It is impossible to defend Benning's body of work to date outside of 3-4 draft picks that turned out well. Basically any GM in the history of the league should be expected to hit on a couple draft picks over five years. The pro-scouting work, and general managing of the NHL roster and contract situation, has been and remains piss poor. There's no other way to spin it. If you want to say "Benning is improving" you might have a bit of a better argument, though I don't see a lot of indication the work is improving at all at the NHL level.

If you continue to lower the bar and expections ... I suppose any degree of success looks commendable.

I will give it to you in a way that's easy to understand: I do not want the guys who built the current blue line running the team.

My agenda is to see this new young group of players flourish, and to enjoy watching the team....

Any GM can hit on draft picks over a 5 year span,..?, obviously wasn't the case with the previous regime was it?

A lot of what makes a good GM is hiring the right people...A good coach, a good Director Of Scouting,a good goalie coach..the results are bearing fruit.

 

[4Twenty]

I'm not complaining about the 30 or so posters,...merely making an observation...They are entitled to their point of view, and it's a pointless exercise for me to even try and change it ...( although time and progress are not on their side,..and this season has been a victory for this management group).

I just find your stance to be fairly ignorant. You're complaining about negative posters, and a lot of those peoples opinions are nuanced and you don't give that any credence because they're "negative".

Most people here have challenged your opinions as well as DTS', who took his ball and ran home, unwilling to actually provide any evidence or sources for his claims. And then when questioned, you guys run and hide or deflect from the topic at hand. It's incredible really.

You guys sit here and complain about how the fan base is split into two factions, for and anti, yet when someone presents an opinion that doesn't fit those you complain? How does that make any sense?

 

[Hit the post]

you mean this season where we have the same points at the ASB as the previous three years? and this odd ball season where the west is awful?

yeah ...

Torts disaster Canucks season as of this date (Feb 11, 2014):
63 points after 60 games.
Mission accomplished!

 

[absolute garbage]

So what actually is the standard on disingenuous and bad faith arguments here? It's allowed or not?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Lmao this season a victory for this management group.

They were so terrible at their job that with another gifted lottery pick they finally lucked into a 100 point player making peanuts and are still 5 points away from being the worst team in the conference while 5 of the top 7 players on the team are inherited from previous administration that got canned 5 years ago.

In a normal season this team would need to go 18-4-4 rest of the way to have a shot at making the playoffs.

Gifted lottery pick?..we've never won the lottery or picked higher than 5th?...It's a rebuilding team, were they supposed to make the playoffs this season?..Last I heard, they were a consensus bottom 5 team.

They are playing 'meaningful' games, and its fun to watch the young core grow..The building is busier, season ticket sales are up, there is renewed interest in this team...Yes...this season has been a victory for this management group.

 

[4Twenty]

My agenda is to see this new young group of players flourish, and to enjoy watching the team....

Any GM can hit on draft picks over a 5 year span,..?, obviously wasn't the case with the previous regime was it?

A lot of what makes a good GM is hiring the right people...A good coach, a good Director Of Scouting,a good goalie coach..the results are bearing fruit.

It wasn't the case with the previous regime? The previous regimes record in the top 10 is better than this regimes. Guess how many games it's likely to take Jake Virtanen to reach Cody Hodgson's career production. Let's just say a lot.

Looks to me like Hutton is ahead of Gaudette at this stage.

No your agenda is to push this idea that the team is further along than it is, largely based on where they fit in the western conference standings. When people make the point that they're only 4/5 points ahead of this consensus level you keep touting, you refuse to make a better case.

And when you continue to point out promoting people that were brought to the organization by someone else as good, but have consistently not treated player acquistions and contracts from previous regimes as good moves, your stance rings hollow. It's as hypocritical as you can get IMO.

Signing a good player from a previous regime to a good contract is pretty much identical to promoting from within....or in the case of Ian Clark, retread a former employee.

 

[absolute garbage]

The reason they are playing meaningful games is because West sucks in unprecedented ways this season. How the f*** is that a victory for anyone. I guess Chiarelli had a victory season too, shame he got unjustifiably fired.

11 months before gifted the top 5 pick that this time happened to result a star player they were gunning hard and signed vets to 36M contracts and traded futures for mid 20s defensemen in hopes to go right back to playoffs after what they thought was an anomaly season. Rebuilding, yeah.

But you know all of this. Again, what actually is the standard on disingenuous and bad faith arguments here? It's allowed or not? It's really tiring.

 

[4Twenty]

Gifted lottery pick?..we've never won the lottery or picked higher than 5th?...It's a rebuilding team, were they supposed to make the playoffs this season?..Last I heard, they were a consensus bottom 5 team.

They are playing 'meaningful' games, and its fun to watch the young core grow..The building is busier, season ticket sales are up, there is renewed interest in this team...Yes...this season has been a victory for this management group.

Answer this question: Do the worst teams in the league get given the highest picks every year?

Why do you keep touting this "consensus bottom 5 team" without mentioning they're literally 4/5 points out of that position?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Torts disaster Canucks season as of this date (Feb 11, 2014):
63 points after 60 games.
Mission accomplished!

This is not the same tired veteran group that was supposed to be a SC contender..this team is led by a young group (23 and under),that is starting to hit their stride....Why are you comparing this current squad to that group?..Do you watch the games or just look at the stat sheets?

 

[Hit the post]

Yes...this season has been a victory for this management group.

And once the mission was done, Linden saw there was nothing else to do so the exPresident went back to selling contact lenses.

 

[4Twenty]

This is not the same tired veteran group that was supposed to be a SC contender..this team is led by a young group (23 and under),that is starting to hit their stride....Why are you comparing this current squad to that group?..Do you watch the games or just look at the stat sheets?

If you [MOD], you would at least make mention of the weak western conference, but you won't and then you expect people not to call you out, it's a head scratcher.

You only watch Canuck games, I'm guessing right?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Answer this question: Do the worst teams in the league get given the highest picks every year?

Why do you keep touting this "consensus bottom 5 team" without mentioning they're literally 4/5 points out of that position?

The worst teams do not necessarily get the best picks ..we've been the worst teams and still never picked higher than 5th...

At the beginning of the season, they were not expected to even be competitive whatsoever ...Bottom of the heap...Sedins and Vanek are gone .."Who's going to score?"...Do you need me to dig up sources for you?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The reason they are playing meaningful games is because West sucks in unprecedented ways this season. How the **** is that a victory for anyone. I guess Chiarelli had a victory season too, shame he got unjustifiably fired.

11 months before gifted the top 5 pick that this time happened to result a star player they were gunning hard and signed vets to 36M contracts and traded futures for mid 20s defensemen in hopes to go right back to playoffs after what they thought was an anomaly season. Rebuilding, yeah.

But you know all of this. Again, what actually is the standard on disingenuous and bad faith arguments here? It's allowed or not? It's really tiring.

The standard for arguing in 'bad faith' here is saying something positive....haven't you figured that out yet.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

And once the mission was done, Linden saw there was nothing else to do so the exPresident went back to selling contact lenses.

I think that Benning is going to kick it up a notch without Linden there..Just my .02 cents

 

[Bleach Clean]

The standard for arguing in 'bad faith' here is saying something positive....haven't you figured that out yet.

Incorrect, as usual.

Say every positive thing you can. I encourage it. Try to back up some of those assertions with logic, and it falls apart.

That's why your arguments have been dismissed, for the most part.

 

[4Twenty]

The worst teams do not necessarily get the best picks ..we've been the worst teams and still never picked higher than 5th...

At the beginning of the season, they were not expected to even be competitive whatsoever ...Bottom of the heap...Sedins and Vanek are gone .."Who's going to score?"...Do you need me to dig up sources for you?

Is 5th overall still not considered one of the best picks? The Canucks have never actually been the very worst team, that's why they've fallen to 5th. But again, you don't consider 5th overall a good pick?

They wouldn't have a shot at Pettersson if the worst teams weren't given the best picks, but part of the bad faith arguement is just this....you're not even willing to concede that not being able to fall any lower than the 5th overall selection is a good pick for being bad.

The standard for arguing in 'bad faith' here is saying something positive....haven't you figured that out yet.

That isn't true, posters like you continue to use that as a crutch. I'm willing to debate anyone and you've already seen me give credence to the slight improvement and the progress, but you won't engage on anything else, because you have no retort. You argue in bad faith and it has nothing to do with being positive, it has everything to do with giving credence to both sides of the discussion. You don't. Period.

 

[xtra]

I can admit they have done better than I expected results wise but the team as evidenced by the game on Saturday is riding some huge breaks right now and strike me as earlier similar to the avalanche team a few years ago (2009-2010) that lucked into the 8th spot ahead of stats that said they sucked and then regressed hard the next year

Lead by 4th year stastny (horvat), second year Chris Stewart (boeser) and a rookie Matt duchene (pettersson) and a goalie playing above his head to keep em in games they didn’t belong.


This team will crash and burn (unless major changes are made up front and on defense) either this year or next and I full expect some of the posters here to disappear or come back and say “oh well they weren’t expected to do well last year so it doesn’t count”

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Positive comments are disliked in this thread, and are converged on to turn back to the 'negative'..Of course my posts are dismissed by the longtime negative poster cult.
The 'logic' is taking care of itself...Time and 'progress' are not your friend.

 

[4Twenty]

Ok, sorry for saying "no genuine bones in your body", I'll say no genuine substance to your arguements. Attacking the content not the poster.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Switching gears: If we go back to canuckfan75's earlier intel that Benning will be fired next year if the team doesn't make the playoffs, what do people suppose are the odds of this happening.

Just generally looking at the strength of the west, teams like STL, CHI and ANA have played poorly. Other teams like EDM have disappointed relative to expectations. Do people see the Canucks as a top8 team next year?

Right now, the top8 are:

1. CGY
2. WPG
3. SJ
4. NSH
5. VGK
6. DAL
7. STL
8. MIN

Do the Canucks overtake any of the above teams?

Further, do any of the non-playoff teams this year make a push next year?