Oh, I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you.
I don't understand why they'd even think of signing him now. He's shown nothing and is a fringe prospect, and they can wait another year to make a decision.
Prospect Info: 133rd overall: Vancouver selects Carson Focht (C, Calgary Hitmen)
- Thread starter Zombotron
- Start date
Oh, I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you.
I don't understand why they'd even think of signing him now. He's shown nothing and is a fringe prospect, and they can wait another year to make a decision.
krutovsdonut
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I wasn't aware Focht regressed in terms of headline stats. Seems depressing given nucks don't have much coming up in terms of a longer-term defensive center. So who would be next? They may try Michaelis next year (AHL?) but beyond that..... how was Jasek doing as a center? And then...... Costmar?!
The Iron Goalie
Formally 'OEL for Norris'
At the surface level Focht's production does look like it stalled, but allow me to add a little context.
Calgary as a team was worse offensively this season, and they played a more defensive system to make up for missing key offensive players like Zamula + Malm (got traded away in January and suspended for not reporting lol!) for extended periods of time due to injury. The PP especially suffered without Zamula, and Malm. The teams goal for, and goal against dropped vs last season, and the PP went from elite in the WHL to average. Here are the team stats for reference,
2018/19 - 68GP 255GF (Rank 7/22) 240GA (Rank 17/22! ) PP% 27.9% 68/244 (Rank 2/22!)
2019/20 - 64GP 219GF (Rank 10/22) 201GA (Rank 10/22) PP% 21.8% 42/193 (Rank 11/22)
Focht himself saw his PP production drop from 2018/19 to 2019/20 by nine points, but his even strength offense actually improved. here are his PP/even strength stats from the last 2 seasons,
2018/19 - Total 68GP 26G 38A 64Pts 0.94PPG - PP ( 9G 19A 28Pts) - SH (1G 1A 2Pts) - Even (16G 18A 34Pts 0.5PPG)
2019/20 - Total 61GP 32G 24A 56Pts 0.92PPG - PP ( 9G 10A 19Pts) - SH (0G 1A 1Pts) - Even (23G 13A 36Pts 0.59PPG)
So as we can see here Focht's production dropped mostly if not entirely due to Calgary's weaker PP, not due to his offense stagnating/regressing like his PPG would indicate, and Focht probably would have been PPG+ if the PP hadn't regressed. He actually took a big step at evens when it came to goal scoring, going from 0.24GPG to 0.38GPG, and scoring 72% of his goals at even strength. This season only 34% of his point came on the PP, and 64% of his points came at evens! Last season that number was 44% on the PP, and 53% at evens.
Now with all that said...I still would've like him to step up more offensively, and his production doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence going forward, but given his improved two-way game and the goal scoring ability...I feel we still have a potential bot 6 C who has PK upside. He actually reminds me a lot of Brandon Sutter in that he's a solid goal scorer, but is an average playmaker. Ultimately, we'll have to wait and see how he does in the AHL, but for now I'm personally OK with his production last year.
Calgary as a team was worse offensively this season, and they played a more defensive system to make up for missing key offensive players like Zamula + Malm (got traded away in January and suspended for not reporting lol!) for extended periods of time due to injury. The PP especially suffered without Zamula, and Malm. The teams goal for, and goal against dropped vs last season, and the PP went from elite in the WHL to average. Here are the team stats for reference,
2018/19 - 68GP 255GF (Rank 7/22) 240GA (Rank 17/22! ) PP% 27.9% 68/244 (Rank 2/22!)
2019/20 - 64GP 219GF (Rank 10/22) 201GA (Rank 10/22) PP% 21.8% 42/193 (Rank 11/22)
Focht himself saw his PP production drop from 2018/19 to 2019/20 by nine points, but his even strength offense actually improved. here are his PP/even strength stats from the last 2 seasons,
2018/19 - Total 68GP 26G 38A 64Pts 0.94PPG - PP ( 9G 19A 28Pts) - SH (1G 1A 2Pts) - Even (16G 18A 34Pts 0.5PPG)
2019/20 - Total 61GP 32G 24A 56Pts 0.92PPG - PP ( 9G 10A 19Pts) - SH (0G 1A 1Pts) - Even (23G 13A 36Pts 0.59PPG)
So as we can see here Focht's production dropped mostly if not entirely due to Calgary's weaker PP, not due to his offense stagnating/regressing like his PPG would indicate, and Focht probably would have been PPG+ if the PP hadn't regressed. He actually took a big step at evens when it came to goal scoring, going from 0.24GPG to 0.38GPG, and scoring 72% of his goals at even strength. This season only 34% of his point came on the PP, and 64% of his points came at evens! Last season that number was 44% on the PP, and 53% at evens.
Now with all that said...I still would've like him to step up more offensively, and his production doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence going forward, but given his improved two-way game and the goal scoring ability...I feel we still have a potential bot 6 C who has PK upside. He actually reminds me a lot of Brandon Sutter in that he's a solid goal scorer, but is an average playmaker. Ultimately, we'll have to wait and see how he does in the AHL, but for now I'm personally OK with his production last year.
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Thank you very much for the finer details! If this means Focht is still on track with an upside of a good defensive 3C, albeit without any potential of a 2C, I am fine with that. Let's see how he does at the next level.
Never seen the kid play, but the Canucks are so thin of centers in the pipeline, they'll probably end up offering him a contract.
Cole Cassels was a 3rd round selection compared to Focht's 5th. He came to you Utica hyped due to his Jr Championship run in which so many credited him to single handedly shutting down McD. Cole had put up 81 points in 54 GP that season.
He was projected as a sound defensive center who had NHL possibilities.
He proceeded to put up 7 total PTs in67 GP his rookie season. Massive disappointment and didn't do himself any favors by only amassing 11 PTs his 2nd season, a year in which he was given 2nd line duties on many occasions. At that point barring a miracle his NHL promise was gone.
Year 3 while getting more 2nd and even some 1st line duties he managed 26 PTs and he was destined for Europe. Yup, 24 points in 50 contests in the DEL.
That didn't seem to go so well and he opted for a return to NA in this past season, 2019-20:
7 ECHL games. At least he proved he was star material in that league with 10 points.
Loaned by the ECHL Utah Grizzlies to the AHL Belleville Senators, 8 PTs in 24 GP.
Then picked up by the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins where he put up 19 PTS in 28 GP.
When I saw the center options for the Comets minus Cassels each of the past 2 seasons, I actually posted in both years that Cassels would still be a better choice than some of the bums Utica was putting out there.
I see Focht with a much lower potential for success than Cole and he will enter the pros one year later if he gets signed at all.
The most ridiculous thing about all of this is he would be the first drafted center to be a regular Comet since Cassels and if he gets here, he will be only the 2nd drafted center period assigned to Utica by the Benning administration. A top center prospect drafted by the Canucks would be a miracle sighting in Utica. We watch the other teams trot their's out on the Aud ice, but none for the Comets. There isn't one coming this season either (if there even is a season).
Please don't drag Gaudette into this discussion. From day 1 have been on record each season posting Gaudette would not be a Comet and I was correct. The Canucks would never have enough healthy centers to allow him to develop in the AHL. Hell, until 2 seasons ago we had very few forward prospects at all and even when they finally did start to arrive, only MacEwen is seen as the lone prospect to make the Canucks roster and he's projected bottom 6. Before him, Gaunce was the lone Comet to make the move.
I predict the Comets coaching staff will be Fochted if they are expected to get this kid to a level where he can even be considered as a short call-up. I'd guess he becomes another Johnson project stashed in Kalamazoo to be of call-up service to the Comets where he will prove to be worthless like all the others he's stashed down there.
He was projected as a sound defensive center who had NHL possibilities.
He proceeded to put up 7 total PTs in67 GP his rookie season. Massive disappointment and didn't do himself any favors by only amassing 11 PTs his 2nd season, a year in which he was given 2nd line duties on many occasions. At that point barring a miracle his NHL promise was gone.
Year 3 while getting more 2nd and even some 1st line duties he managed 26 PTs and he was destined for Europe. Yup, 24 points in 50 contests in the DEL.
That didn't seem to go so well and he opted for a return to NA in this past season, 2019-20:
7 ECHL games. At least he proved he was star material in that league with 10 points.
Loaned by the ECHL Utah Grizzlies to the AHL Belleville Senators, 8 PTs in 24 GP.
Then picked up by the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins where he put up 19 PTS in 28 GP.
When I saw the center options for the Comets minus Cassels each of the past 2 seasons, I actually posted in both years that Cassels would still be a better choice than some of the bums Utica was putting out there.
I see Focht with a much lower potential for success than Cole and he will enter the pros one year later if he gets signed at all.
The most ridiculous thing about all of this is he would be the first drafted center to be a regular Comet since Cassels and if he gets here, he will be only the 2nd drafted center period assigned to Utica by the Benning administration. A top center prospect drafted by the Canucks would be a miracle sighting in Utica. We watch the other teams trot their's out on the Aud ice, but none for the Comets. There isn't one coming this season either (if there even is a season).
Please don't drag Gaudette into this discussion. From day 1 have been on record each season posting Gaudette would not be a Comet and I was correct. The Canucks would never have enough healthy centers to allow him to develop in the AHL. Hell, until 2 seasons ago we had very few forward prospects at all and even when they finally did start to arrive, only MacEwen is seen as the lone prospect to make the Canucks roster and he's projected bottom 6. Before him, Gaunce was the lone Comet to make the move.
I predict the Comets coaching staff will be Fochted if they are expected to get this kid to a level where he can even be considered as a short call-up. I'd guess he becomes another Johnson project stashed in Kalamazoo to be of call-up service to the Comets where he will prove to be worthless like all the others he's stashed down there.
BB06
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Cole Cassels was like the messiah that year. I remember some Canucks fans penciling him as high as 2C of the future.
The Iron Goalie
Formally 'OEL for Norris'
shottasasa
Registered User
Cassels was a hell a of disappointment, just could never take the next step and his skating is as a major reason why. Also, he played on a really good junior team that maybe hid some of his deficiencies as a player.
I wasn’t a fan of the pick (Knowing nothing more than a few scout reports) and Frocht is a long shot to make the NHL, but if his skating is decent when he arrives in the AHL he might be useful to the Comets. Not someone to get too excited about, but as a fifth round pick if he provides 3-4 decent years for the Comets and maybe some depth call-ups for the Canucks it’s okay value.
I wasn’t a fan of the pick (Knowing nothing more than a few scout reports) and Frocht is a long shot to make the NHL, but if his skating is decent when he arrives in the AHL he might be useful to the Comets. Not someone to get too excited about, but as a fifth round pick if he provides 3-4 decent years for the Comets and maybe some depth call-ups for the Canucks it’s okay value.
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krutovsdonut
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i think gaunce would count as a drafted centre who was a comet regular after cassels left, but obviously he started before him.
the list of drafted canuck centres since cassels who were signed is pretty short: mccann, gaudette and pettersson. two of them have stuck in the nhl and one played ncaa. i guess we'll see if the kings play madden in the minors.
bandwagonesque
I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
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The Canucks draft centers, and the centers they have drafted have either made the team almost immediately or played in the NCAA or Europe. I've never been sure what you're getting at with the complaint that Utica never has drafted centers on their roster or what you think should be done about it.
I definitely want to see the Canucks draft more Cs but I suppose it's been best player available. It's too bad that Madden got traded, I think he would have been a treat to watch for Comets fans.
Truth been told, we haven't really drafted a whole lot of Cs over the years and certainly not a lot of Cs who are at least AHL regulars. Beyond Petey, McCann, Gaudette, Horvat, and Hodgson, you're looking at Gaunce, Cassels, Friesen, and Bliznak.
You really got to go back to the Brian Burke "a C can play wing" era to see a concerted effort at drafting Cs.
That, and I don't think Travis Green (or the organization as a whole) helped his development much at all. Cassels was basically just dumped as a 4th line center and given few other opportunities. At one point in 17-18, Utica had a few centers hurt and Cassels got more icetime and scored 12 points in 12 games ... and then right back to the bottom of the roster after that. Plus Cassels was a PP ace in junior and never really given a look there in Utica at all.
I mean, he probably doesn't make it anyway but I think if the organization was invested him and put him in positions to succeed, I suspect his numbers in Utica look a lot better and maybe he gets an NHL cup of coffee.
Callhee
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- Aug 24, 2009
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It's kind of off-topic but what are everyone's thoughts on Linus Karlsson? Last season, he played in Sweden's 2nd tier Allsvenskan, and his stat line looks decent, especially after being traded to Bofors IK.
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]Could he be a decent centre for Utica/longshot NHL 4th liner?
| 2019-20 | Karlskrona HK | Swe-1 | 36 | 8 | 14 | 22 | 18 | -7 | |||||
| 2019-20 | Bofors IK | Swe-1 | 12 | 6 | 12 | 18 | 0 |
I was a big fan of Karlsson at the time of the draft. Not sure what happened to his offensive game but he seemed to have picked things up after joining his new team. He's a long term project at this point.
Cole wasn’t a good skater. For a second generation player whose father made good money I always find it a bit surprising that the younger generation didn’t get personal skating lessons if they show a desire and skill to pursue hockey as a career.
Reinhart was an amazing skater yet none of his 3 kids are close to him in skater. Andrew was not a burner like his teammate Sanderson but I never found him to be slow.
but have to remember that kids are not carbon copies of their fathers. Brett and Bobby could both shoot the puck but doesn’t apply for all kids.
Fatass
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
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Andrew Cassels was a poor skater, too. Biomechanically, Cole got the same sort of body and posture which I don't think lent itself to generating leg drive and power.
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