Prospect Info: 133rd overall: Vancouver selects Carson Focht (C, Calgary Hitmen)

[VanJack]

I've never seen Focht play, but people who have say he has a good motor and plays with a serious edge in his game.

But let's face it.....the history of hitting on fifth round draft picks who weren't picked until their second year of draft eligibility has to be pretty remote. If he gets a contract and can even contribute marginally in Utica, then that has to be considered a big win for a later round pick.

I recall some posters, including Canucks Army, saying much the same thing about MacEwen when he was signed out of Q as an un-drafted free agent. Why bother when you look at the track record of undrafted juniors ever playing a game in the NHL. But sometimes you just never know.

 

[HockeyNightInAsia]

Yeah, not gonna care about Cole Cassels too much, let's move forward, but I thought an interesting question that stemmed from Nucks not having centers at Utica was that..... are defensive center "projects" better developed in the AHL, where the pro-league experience helps? I agreed with the point that Gaudette was never gonna play much at the AHL anyway, his game was pretty close to tops after having excelled at the NCAA. But maybe the NCAA route is less optimal when it comes to developing the defensive game?

 

[HockeyWooot]

Yeah, not gonna care about Cole Cassels too much, let's move forward, but I thought an interesting question that stemmed from Nucks not having centers at Utica was that..... are defensive center "projects" better developed in the AHL, where the pro-league experience helps? I agreed with the point that Gaudette was never gonna play much at the AHL anyway, his game was pretty close to tops after having excelled at the NCAA. But maybe the NCAA route is less optimal when it comes to developing the defensive game?

This is a good point, I wondered the same myself. With TBL just winning the cup, their league best drafting and development comes to mind.

Aside from homegrown top 6, they have a lot of quality depth players work their way up through the system.

 

[Bad Goalie]

I did include Gaunce in the drafted centers to play in Utica, but Benning didn't draft him. He was actually the only one that lived up to his promise at the AHL level. He was PPG in his second season and spent a good portion of that season in Vancouver.

Someone mentioned Friesen and he was also not a Benning draft and he is in Europe without ever being a prospect for Vancouver and and didn't exactly sparkle here in a full season as a top 1/2 center (#2 when Gaunce was in town and #1 when he wasn't). TJ Hensick was picked up in a late season AHL trade and promptly displaced Friesen as #1 recording nearly a PPG for the remainder of the season. Friesen wasn't even .5 PPG for the season and was in Europe the next season.

As to what my point is, a team short on center depth for eons ought to consider drafting a few beyond the blue chip 1st rounders and at the moment there are 2 playing in Vancouver, Petey and Gaudette and many keep listing Adam as fodder to get rid of a crappy contract. Benning has drafted 6 times and he has only drafted 1 center that played in Utica to date - Cassels. That's a pretty poor track record for an NHL team trying to develop players at the AHL level for the future. Wings need centers to properly develop and I have beaten several horses to death reporting how horrible the center depth beyond #1 has been over the 6 seasons the Comets have played in Utica.

 

[bandwagonesque]

As to what my point is, a team short on center depth for eons ought to consider drafting a few beyond the blue chip 1st rounders and at the moment there are 2 playing in Vancouver, Petey and Gaudette and many keep listing Adam as fodder to get rid of a crappy contract. Benning has drafted 6 times and he has only drafted 1 center that played in Utica to date - Cassels. That's a pretty poor track record for an NHL team trying to develop players at the AHL level for the future. Wings need centers to properly develop and I have beaten several horses to death reporting how horrible the center depth beyond #1 has been over the 6 seasons the Comets have played in Utica.

The team has drafted 9 centers since 2014, only one of which was a blue chip prospect. Considering centers make up about 20 percent of a team's roster, that's about commensurate with the number of centers you'd expect any team to draft.

 

[Nazzlind]

I did include Gaunce in the drafted centers to play in Utica, but Benning didn't draft him. He was actually the only one that lived up to his promise at the AHL level. He was PPG in his second season and spent a good portion of that season in Vancouver.

Someone mentioned Friesen and he was also not a Benning draft and he is in Europe without ever being a prospect for Vancouver and and didn't exactly sparkle here in a full season as a top 1/2 center (#2 when Gaunce was in town and #1 when he wasn't). TJ Hensick was picked up in a late season AHL trade and promptly displaced Friesen as #1 recording nearly a PPG for the remainder of the season. Friesen wasn't even .5 PPG for the season and was in Europe the next season.

As to what my point is, a team short on center depth for eons ought to consider drafting a few beyond the blue chip 1st rounders and at the moment there are 2 playing in Vancouver, Petey and Gaudette and many keep listing Adam as fodder to get rid of a crappy contract. Benning has drafted 6 times and he has only drafted 1 center that played in Utica to date - Cassels. That's a pretty poor track record for an NHL team trying to develop players at the AHL level for the future. Wings need centers to properly develop and I have beaten several horses to death reporting how horrible the center depth beyond #1 has been over the 6 seasons the Comets have played in Utica.

just a minor correction but Cassels was a Gillis pick.

drafted the same year as Bo.

 

[HockeyNightInAsia]

The team has drafted 9 centers since 2014, only one of which was a blue chip prospect. Considering centers make up about 20 percent of a team's roster, that's about commensurate with the number of centers you'd expect any team to draft.

So I quickly checked who these 9 are.....

1 is a generational talent
1 made NHL quickly (McCann)
2 went the NCAA route (Gaudette, Madden)
2 went back to Europe after CHL (Zhukenov, Abols initially)
1 never gonna make it anyway? (Petitt)

So maybe the final two (Focht, Costmar) are part of Nucks' attempt to make up for it.

 

[MS]

I've never seen Focht play, but people who have say he has a good motor and plays with a serious edge in his game.

But let's face it.....the history of hitting on fifth round draft picks who weren't picked until their second year of draft eligibility has to be pretty remote. If he gets a contract and can even contribute marginally in Utica, then that has to be considered a big win for a later round pick.

I recall some posters, including Canucks Army, saying much the same thing about MacEwen when he was signed out of Q as an un-drafted free agent. Why bother when you look at the track record of undrafted juniors ever playing a game in the NHL. But sometimes you just never know.

The spreadsheet monkeys at Canucks Army didn't understand that MacEwen had an exceptionally unique development curve which made comparisons to similar-aged prospects pointless, and that he had a truckload of projectable NHL skills. Much like their 'Wiercoch is a UFA home run!' based on his advanced stats while getting 70% zone starts next to Erik Karlsson, if you try to put everyone in the same basket and ignore context you make really stupid mistakes.

Focht doesn't have that going on. He's an early developer and former #1 pick in the WHL bantam draft who had been on scouting radars for years and after 5 years of WHL development has topped out as a 56-point player in that league. And doesn't have any real projectable skills moving up levels.

Like, Connor Dewar of Everett was a WHL guy who might project as a bottom-6 NHL forward, but at the same age he was on a different planet from Focht as a player. Just so much more explosive and dynamic. And still struggled adapting to the AHL this year.

 

[F A N]

The team has to be careful not to deviate too much (if at all) from drafting the best player available. You can look at the list of Canucks draft picks and declare that not enough Cs were drafted but how much of that was an attempt to draft the best player available? Instead of drafting Lind, we could have drafted Anderson-Dolan. Instead of drafting Woo, we could have drafted Drury. In the last draft, we could have traded down and drafted Newhook or Krebs. There are also other Cs the Canucks could have drafted that are trending like busts.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Yeah, not gonna care about Cole Cassels too much, let's move forward, but I thought an interesting question that stemmed from Nucks not having centers at Utica was that..... are defensive center "projects" better developed in the AHL, where the pro-league experience helps? I agreed with the point that Gaudette was never gonna play much at the AHL anyway, his game was pretty close to tops after having excelled at the NCAA. But maybe the NCAA route is less optimal when it comes to developing the defensive game?

i think the opposite. if focht was in the ncaa i think he'd be a solid prospect but likely to do his full four years.

it would be interesting to look at this statistically, but my take on where you want a player to develop who is not going to step into the nhl quickly would be:

ncaa
shl
chl / ahl
swedish 2nd
other european leagues
khl

at a certain point you just chase talent, but in later rounds i would be scouting guys bound for the ncaa much harder than the whl.

 

[F A N]

Focht doesn't have that going on. He's an early developer and former #1 pick in the WHL bantam draft who had been on scouting radars for years and after 5 years of WHL development has topped out as a 56-point player in that league. And doesn't have any real projectable skills moving up levels.

Like, Connor Dewar of Everett was a WHL guy who might project as a bottom-6 NHL forward, but at the same age he was on a different planet from Focht as a player. Just so much more explosive and dynamic. And still struggled adapting to the AHL this year.

By #1 pick, you meant first round pick right? He certainly wasn't drafted first overall.

But your view of Focht is certainly valid. He was bypassed for the 2018 draft and won't have any separating skill at the NHL level. Like other prospects we have been drafting, he does compete hard. His 32 goals are also nothing to scoff at. He's obviously a long shot to develop into an NHL player. Like I said before, he reminds me of the Brett McKenzie pick.

 

[MS]

By #1 pick, you meant first round pick right? He certainly wasn't drafted first overall.

But your view of Focht is certainly valid. He was bypassed for the 2018 draft and won't have any separating skill at the NHL level. Like other prospects we have been drafting, he does compete hard. His 32 goals are also nothing to scoff at. He's obviously a long shot to develop into an NHL player. Like I said before, he reminds me of the Brett McKenzie pick.

Yeah, 7th overall. Just after Jett Woo, incidentally.

He's a good WHL player. And I wouldn't say he's a no-hoper. But guys of his skillset/production almost always end up as CIS/ECHL types.

 

[VanJack]

So I quickly checked who these 9 are.....

1 is a generational talent
1 made NHL quickly (McCann)
2 went the NCAA route (Gaudette, Madden)
2 went back to Europe after CHL (Zhukenov, Abols initially)
1 never gonna make it anyway? (Petitt)

So maybe the final two (Focht, Costmar) are part of Nucks' attempt to make up for it.

Also might be the reason why the Canucks flipped Jonathan Dahlen for Linus Karlsson. If nothing else, it adds to the center depth in the organization. But longshots that any of these centers actually make it.

Although the Canucks don't pick until the third round, they still need to keep center position in mind. If nothing else, Utica is seriously short of decent centers to the point where they're shifting wingers like Jasek into the middle. Hitting on a center who was even a decent AHL'er would help.

 

[HockeyNightInAsia]

i think the opposite. if focht was in the ncaa i think he'd be a solid prospect but likely to do his full four years.

it would be interesting to look at this statistically, but my take on where you want a player to develop who is not going to step into the nhl quickly would be:

ncaa
shl
chl / ahl
swedish 2nd
other european leagues
khl

at a certain point you just chase talent, but in later rounds i would be scouting guys bound for the ncaa much harder than the whl.

Just to clarify, the question I brought up had a "defensive forward" opponent to it, whether a league like AHL can add to the defensive game better. Given Nucks' drafting history it's easy to agree that the NCAA/SHL routes offer better developments, but is it a by-product of poor Utica developments past few years? And then the next question could be, was Utica development poor because of coaching, because of the culture, or actually a chicken-and-egg situation where lack of centers create a poor environment??

For example, I would be cautiously optimistic of Marc Michaelis, who spent years at the NCAA, being a pretty refined player who may not take long to contribute, whether at AHL or NHL. But say if Nucks wanna play him at center, would it be similar to trying to fit a square peg into a round hole? Is Jasek being forced the same way?

 

[Lindgren]

Also might be the reason why the Canucks flipped Jonathan Dahlen for Linus Karlsson. If nothing else, it adds to the center depth in the organization. But longshots that any of these centers actually make it.

Although the Canucks don't pick until the third round, they still need to keep center position in mind. If nothing else, Utica is seriously short of decent centers to the point where they're shifting wingers like Jasek into the middle. Hitting on a center who was even a decent AHL'er would help.

Perhaps Marc Michaelis will light it up at centre for Utica next season (if there is an AHL season).

First Look: Canucks Roll the Dice on Undrafted NCAA Forward Marc Michaelis

 

[Bad Goalie]

just a minor correction but Cassels was a Gillis pick.

drafted the same year as Bo.

Cool, so there was Nary A ONE!!!!!!!!!! under Benning's control. Unforgiveable.
Focht would be the only one if he ends up in Utica and he is a long shot for sure.
Fact is of all the Canucks roster players this past regular season, only Virtanan spent the better part of one season in Utica. That's atrocious for growing your own talent.

This season we may see a few more because of the cap situation, not because they are forcing their way onto the roster with their play.

 

[Blue and Green]

Fact is of all the Canucks roster players this past regular season, only Virtanan spent the better part of one season in
Utica. That's atrocious for growing your own talent.

Demko spent 2.5 seasons in Utica. MacEwen stayed in Vancouver for the last part of the regular season plus the playoffs after about 2.5 seasons in Utica; we'll see if he can stick next season.

Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes didn't need any time in Utica. Gaudette turned 22 at the start of his first full pro season following a distinguished NCAA career; it's hardly surprising that he didn't spend much time in Utica.

From the 2017 draft, so far only 11 players drafted in rounds 3 through 7 have played in any NHL games. DiPietro (round 3) had a good AHL rookie season and Rathbone (round 4) is just out of college and hasn't had a chance to play any pro games.

 

[Canucks1096]

Demko spent 2.5 seasons in Utica. MacEwen stayed in Vancouver for the last part of the regular season plus the playoffs after about 2.5 seasons in Utica; we'll see if he can stick next season.

Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes didn't need any time in Utica. Gaudette turned 22 at the start of his first full pro season following a distinguished NCAA career; it's hardly surprising that he didn't spend much time in Utica.

From the 2017 draft, so far only 11 players drafted in rounds 3 through 7 have played in any NHL games. DiPietro (round 3) had a good AHL rookie season and Rathbone (round 4) is just out of college and hasn't had a chance to play any pro games.

Gaudette didn't spend much time in Utica because of all the injuries. 2018/2019, Gaudette did start in the ahl, injuries to Sutter/Beagle made Gaudette play in the nhl for most of the season. Gaudette did get sent down to ahl this year as well. Then after a few games in the ahl. Motte went down and Gaudette called up. Then Sutter went down and Gaudette stay in the nhl.

Gaudette could of used a year in the ahl to work on his defensive game

 

[VanJack]

Gaudette didn't spend much time in Utica because of all the injuries. 2018/2019, Gaudette did start in the ahl, injuries to Sutter/Beagle made Gaudette play in the nhl for most of the season. Gaudette did get sent down to ahl this year as well. Then after a few games in the ahl. Motte went down and Gaudette called up. Then Sutter went down and Gaudette stay in the nhl.

Gaudette could of used a year in the ahl to work on his defensive game

Gaudette would probably have spent an entire year in Utica, but Sutter couldn't stay healthy and Beagle couldn't score and was stamped as fourth liner. If Benning had invested in a center or two in the UFA market over the years, instead of a slew of overpaid wingers like Roussel, Eriksson, and Ferland, maybe Gaudette would have received the seasoning he needed in Utica. But that's water under the bridge.

And the centers currently on the UFA market are mostly underwhelming. So Focht may earn a look-see entry level contract by default.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Demko spent 2.5 seasons in Utica. MacEwen stayed in Vancouver for the last part of the regular season plus the playoffs after about 2.5 seasons in Utica; we'll see if he can stick next season.

Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes didn't need any time in Utica. Gaudette turned 22 at the start of his first full pro season following a distinguished NCAA career; it's hardly surprising that he didn't spend much time in Utica.

From the 2017 draft, so far only 11 players drafted in rounds 3 through 7 have played in any NHL games. DiPietro (round 3) had a good AHL rookie season and Rathbone (round 4) is just out of college and hasn't had a chance to play any pro games.

You get one for Demko. Have to confess I was only looking at forwards and D-men.

As to the rest, when the season opened none of your guys were on the Vancouver roster. They were either not good enough or the bad contracts held down their potential spots.

I have said continuously that Gaudette was never going to be a Comet and he hasn't been.

When talking about developing guys in the AHL, the #1 blue chip selections are not expected to be there. That would only happen on the best of the NHL rosters or the selection couldn't cut the mustard and that's not a good sign. Therefore, Boeser, Pettersson, and Hughes were expected to be Canucks from the drop of the first regular season puck that they were eligible for. I have also stated that fact forever. They are not and never have been in my discussion.

IMO Virtanen and McCann should have been Comets their first season. They tried to play catch up with Jake after the fact and he never got there. Florida sent McCann to the AHL in his first season there because they said he was not ready for the NHL. He also suffered and injury that season. Since that season he performed admirably for the Panthers and has been .5PPG for the Penguins.

Every season injuries get some guys a call-up. Most Comets don't play when called up and get sent back as soon as possible based upon the regulars returning from injury. I'm talking about 6 years of drafting and only Mac has seen considerable time of all the draft selections. Most of the hopefuls are not even in the Canuck's mix any more. They either emigrated to Europe or moved on in trades and are on other AHL rosters. McCann is the only one off the top of my head playing in the NHL.

Drafting in the first round has been a big hit for 3 of the picks. They gave up on McCann. Virtanen has managed to find a spot, but is a disappointment based upon his draft position. Juolevi has been oft injured and didn't set any fires when he did play at the AHL level. Many believe he will be a Canuck this season and some have him penciled in as high as top 4 in the future. I'm still not sure he will pan out at any level. Only time has the answer to that one.

I'm not going to run down the list, but it is not pretty and Benning drafted centers have never existed. Meanwhile, I've observed Comets opponents ice a plethora of drafted players over the years. Then I've watched NHL games and as the seasons moved along there they are.

I'll just use Tampa Bay as a comparison since Syracuse is 45 minutes by car or an hour bus ride away and are the Comets fiercest rival. Tampa has iced quite a few ex-Syracuse Crunch players and have more in the wings of whom a couple even saw game time this playoffs like Volkov. They also have an outstanding player in Syacuse by the name of Alex Barre-Boulet, who has spent 2 seasons there. In his rookie season he was the league's top scoring rookie and tied another Tampa acquisition in teammate Carter Verhaeghe for the most goals scored in the league with 34.

Verhaeghe wasn't drafted by Tampa, but Toronto took him in the 2013 3rd round. Toronto traded him to the Isles and was acquired in a trade by Tampa for the 3rd year of his ELC and assigned him to AHL Syracuse. All he did that season was finish in the top 6 on the roster in what was his first full season in the AHL, 2017-18.

In Carter's second season with the Crunch (Barre-Boulet's rookie season) he won the first AHL scoring title for the Crunch scoring 34 goals and 48 assists for 82 points in 76 GP. The 82 points was a Syracuse franchise record.

This season Verhaeghe was a full season Tampa Bay roster player. Barre-Boulet put up 27G/29A/56PTs in 60GP in the shortened AHL season.

Interesting for my continual explanation of center absenteeism in Utica, both of these guys are centers. Carter was a 3rd round selection and Alex wasn't even drafted, but signed an ELC with Tampa out of Jrs. where he had just won the QMJHL scoring championship with 116 Pts of which 53 were goals.

It's been like that every season watching guys like Killorn, Cirelli, Palat, Johnson, Gourde, Paquette, Verhaeghe, Cernak, Vasilevskiy, and Rutta develop playing against their AHL rival Utica Comets. There are more in the well and they have another draft coming up and there will be the undrafted or trade sweeteners in the Jr. pool where they have been excellent in picking up good ones.

They currently have their 3 blue chippers who never saw any or at the most a handful of AHL games:
Sercachev - 0 GP
Kucherov - 17 GP
Point - 9 GP
These 3 are their versions of Hughes, Boeser, and Pettersson.

Over the years Stamkos and Hedman were also immediate NHLers. They also have acquired through trade or free agency other NHL #1s or lesser selections, but never played in the AHL, who were all key pieces in the Cup run: McDonagh, Coburn, Bogosian, Shattenkirk, Goodrow, Coleman, and even Schenn.

The management personnel of this team have been phenomenal in their player acquisitions mostly through the draft and trades. Their UFAs have been very effective as well. However, for the strength of my argument, what has passed through or are currently growing in Syracuse has been a superior bunch when compared to those in Utica and Tampa was selecting much farther down the line than Vancouver in those drafts. Their success after the first round is most impressive.

 

[VanJack]

The problem for Utica and VanCity, is that over the years the Canucks simply haven't drafted very many centers. They've leaned heavily towards d-men, wingers and goalies. Once you get past Pettersson and Gaudette, I'm hard-pressed to find a single draft pick who spent his entire amateur career as a true center. They drafted Madden as a center, but were convinced he'd have to make it as a winger and hence the trade.

Gaunce and MacEwen were centers in junior, but the Canucks apparently decided that skating was an issue and shipped them to the wing once they hit the pros.

This is probably the reason they swapped Dahlen for Linus Karlsson, a player nobody had heard of when the deal was announced. And likely also the reason they went out and signed Michaelis as a UFA out of the NCAA.

All you can hope for is that Canucks pick a few centers in this year's draft. But as later round picks, they won't be in a position to help the Comets or the Canucks for years.

 

[RobertKron]

\

This is probably the reason they swapped Dahlen for Linus Karlsson, a player nobody had heard of when the deal was announced.

FWIW, Benning said Dahlen's agent requested the trade.

 

[F A N]

This is probably the reason they swapped Dahlen for Linus Karlsson, a player nobody had heard of when the deal was announced.

I'm sure many of us have heard of him. He was a 3rd round pick. CA did a profile of him and his SuperElit production had some very good NHL comparables. He was certainly a known prospect in his draft year. He caught my attention because he was 6'1", happened to be a C, and he was praised for his high hockey IQ, compete level, and defensive game.

 

[Peen]

Lit

 

[VanJack]

Other than Virtanen, I'm struggling to come up with a single player the Canucks have drafted out of the Dub who ever panned out. I suppose Woo has a shot, but has already fallen well behind a lot of the young d-men in the system; and Lind still has some upside I guess. And if you go way, back d-men like Sopel and Butcher at least played in the league.

But sadly if history is any guide, Focht will join a long line of WHL picks who never got signed after their junior careers were up.