Pre-Game Talk: 11/1 vs Chicago
- Thread starter Del Preston
- Start date
We're after equal opportunity. Drake's had more chances to play with McDavid than any right wingers currently on the team.
Rattie was called up and inserted into McDavids line despite being a career ahler it worked and he stuck.
Yam was inserted into his line and stuck despite being a rookie and not producing on the line.
Drake was given a long look each of the last 2 years with miserable results, but still has more time on his wing than anyone on the team besides drai or rnh.
JP has had minimal opportunity since joining the oilers with McDavid, yet he was drafted to be exactly what McDavid needed on his line. A good skating shot first rh rwer.
I agree drake has played well this year, in a bottom 6 role where he can focus on being an energy player. Why try and force him into the scoring role again when we have someone who's expected to develop into a scorer with fresh legs available who will be looking to make an impression so he isn't sent down?
It's not that people feel JP should be gifted an opportunity, it's that the coach is willing to try the same failed experiments over and over instead of trying something new. Same goes for his special teams choices.
It's no different than when the fans had to ask for rnh to be on McDavids wing for 2 seasons, only to finally have Todd give in, and what do you know, it worked.
I swear Todd would move Kassian up before giving Jp a shot, and it doesn't make sense.
Smart coaches put young players in positions to have success in roles that play to their skillset and where their shortcomings can be covered.
Dumb coaches try and force square pegs into round holes by putting skill in grinder roles and elevating grinders to play with skill.
Agreed. And it's not like JP is awful, he has the same amount of points as cagguila last year while getting no pp time, less total icetime, and nearly zero McDavid time.
Ragdoll
Registered User
- Feb 15, 2018
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All this move does is put Jesse right back to square one where he inevitably get scratched. He’s not some bottom 6 grinder, what else are we expecting from him there? Strome is 0-0-0 and while I’ve been a fan of Lucic this season, he’s not doing a whole lot 5on5.
Oilfan2
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- Aug 12, 2005
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People using 'accountability as if it's some magical system to win games.
Those that have played know that, in general, that comes from your team mates and, even more, from your line mates. You hold each other accountable..that's how you create a 'team'.
Don't you ever wonder why whole lines fail at the same time...it's not just one player usually?
As far as JP, I have no idea what Tmac is trying to accomplish. Jesse has had good games and bad games..the same as just about everyone else on the team.
The difference is he is a young, highly skilled kid that needs to learn his way around the NHL and build up his confidence, etc. It's a new country, language issues, small ice, new systems, etc. Many times players of his ilk learn the defensive side of the game after developing that confidence and being comfortable on the ice with his team mates. Also, having the confidence of his coach. Hell, look at McD and Drai. Does anyone really believe they were defensively responsible as soon as they entered the league? It's only lately they've developed that..after they were successful in offense and using their high skills where they were most comfortable.
Sure, you can put the Caggs of the world on lower teams and they make or break it..possibly working their way up.
I'm not convinced that's going to happen with Jesse in the same way. He needs to be with other highly skilled players to be successful to start. It short order, he would then learn what else it takes to remain at the top of the game, from players that have been there.
I would have put JP on the first line after him sitting for a couple of games. Give him a chance to succeed. If he does, terrific because Caggs will fit anywhere and now you have a better top 6.
If he doesn't cut it after a couple, send him to the AHL, playing top line minutes, and monitor as needed.
It's not a cookie cutter game where everyone is the same and learns the same way. That's one of the reasons why highly rated players don't succeed...coaches and GM's who really don't know how to be creative and utilize the diversity that's available.
Those that have played know that, in general, that comes from your team mates and, even more, from your line mates. You hold each other accountable..that's how you create a 'team'.
Don't you ever wonder why whole lines fail at the same time...it's not just one player usually?
As far as JP, I have no idea what Tmac is trying to accomplish. Jesse has had good games and bad games..the same as just about everyone else on the team.
The difference is he is a young, highly skilled kid that needs to learn his way around the NHL and build up his confidence, etc. It's a new country, language issues, small ice, new systems, etc. Many times players of his ilk learn the defensive side of the game after developing that confidence and being comfortable on the ice with his team mates. Also, having the confidence of his coach. Hell, look at McD and Drai. Does anyone really believe they were defensively responsible as soon as they entered the league? It's only lately they've developed that..after they were successful in offense and using their high skills where they were most comfortable.
Sure, you can put the Caggs of the world on lower teams and they make or break it..possibly working their way up.
I'm not convinced that's going to happen with Jesse in the same way. He needs to be with other highly skilled players to be successful to start. It short order, he would then learn what else it takes to remain at the top of the game, from players that have been there.
I would have put JP on the first line after him sitting for a couple of games. Give him a chance to succeed. If he does, terrific because Caggs will fit anywhere and now you have a better top 6.
If he doesn't cut it after a couple, send him to the AHL, playing top line minutes, and monitor as needed.
It's not a cookie cutter game where everyone is the same and learns the same way. That's one of the reasons why highly rated players don't succeed...coaches and GM's who really don't know how to be creative and utilize the diversity that's available.
oXo Cube
Power Play Merchant
I agree with this. Overall I think JP has been absolutely brutal this season, and believe he belongs in the AHL. BUT, if we are going to throw him in the lineup, why the hell are we throwing him into a bottom six role? It makes no sense. Give the guy a game with Mcdavid and 17+ minutes, and if he doesn't perform send him to the AHL to build some confidence and play heavier minutes.
oXo Cube
Power Play Merchant
If Drake Caggiula can produce with those guys so can Puljujarvi, and if he can't then he shouldn't be playing even higher in the lineup now should he?
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I really don't think that line is this black hole of offense guys are making it out to be. Strome and Lucic have had a ton of chances, and just haven't been able to bury them. A bit of it is due to a lack of finish, but others just bad luck. The line is fairly effective and is far from a grinding line.
That being said, like my post says above, if JP is going to play, he needs to play with Mcdavid. Give him a game or two with him and if he doesn't produce, demote him and get him some time in the AHL.
GMofOilers
Registered User
Drake going to score 2 tonight just to prove fans that depend on analytics wrong.
Can’t wait.
Awesome to see Koskinen get a game, I think he steals us a win.
Can’t wait.
Awesome to see Koskinen get a game, I think he steals us a win.
Oilfan2
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Oilfan2
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Ragdoll
Registered User
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Exactly, he’s shown he knows how to play off Connor. If he derps and screws up that opportunity, by all means scratch him or even send him down. I just don’t like the premise of “well I scratched him last time cause he wasn’t producing on the third line, ok im going to put him there again and hope for better results.” Like way to set the kid up for failure.
oXo Cube
Power Play Merchant
Well then it shouldn't be a problem for Puljujarvi to start outproducing him and get placed into the top 6 where he belongs.
oXo Cube
Power Play Merchant
I think my position has been pretty consistent.
You're the one bending over backwards to justify placing a player that hasn't looked like he belongs in the NHL on the top line.
TheNumber4
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- Nov 11, 2011
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My take, Caggs has been tried with McDavid before, he works hard on that line and tries his best. But Caggs doesn’t have the offensive instincts or the finish to be on that line consistently. It’s why a guy like Rattie works so well. Ratties a natural at point production his whole life, give him slim time and space and he’s got the ability to rip it top corner, Caggs doesn’t have that skill set.
But Ratties injured, so the auditions on McDavids right side continue.
Would Pulju work with McDavid? They’ve had their moments before, but Pulju has issues with being in the right places. I don’t think McDavid knows where Pulju is going to be on the ice. That being said, if they were both to be coming down on a rush I think they can create some magic together.
Anyways, 4 games off for Pulju, hope the coaches spent dozens of hours in the video room with Pulju on where to be and what to do without the puck. The tools are all there for the kid, hope all he needs a bit of coaching, but we’ll see tonight,
But Ratties injured, so the auditions on McDavids right side continue.
Would Pulju work with McDavid? They’ve had their moments before, but Pulju has issues with being in the right places. I don’t think McDavid knows where Pulju is going to be on the ice. That being said, if they were both to be coming down on a rush I think they can create some magic together.
Anyways, 4 games off for Pulju, hope the coaches spent dozens of hours in the video room with Pulju on where to be and what to do without the puck. The tools are all there for the kid, hope all he needs a bit of coaching, but we’ll see tonight,
Draiskull
Registered User
- Oct 26, 2005
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I just want to see Pulju get time on the top line and get top PP unit minutes before we discard him.
He is everything we need on the right side of McDavid. Size, speed, shot, grit, youth and cost controlled salary.
He is everything we need on the right side of McDavid. Size, speed, shot, grit, youth and cost controlled salary.
