GDT: 1/4 Boston Bruins vs Winnipeg Jets 1pm ET NESN/98.5 FM

[Rubber Biscuit]

I expect him to play the position better than he has.

Okay, so it seems like we're on the same page then. I'm expecting him to play better. That doesn't mean he's been awful to this point.

Like I said, I'm glad he's getting this chance now and not in May

 

[member 96824]

You said he should be playing the defensive game that our other centers play.

Let's compare him to the other centers. Kelly has 632 games. Campbell 611. Bergeron has 621.

Campbell, Kelly, Bergeron, Krejci are perfect guys for Spooner to be watching day in and day out, learning from in practice and game situations. We've seen the improvement he's made already being around these types of mentors.

If Spooner is going to be on our roster while we make a cup run, the young excuse doesn't cut it, I agree there no doubt....but unlike Ali who wants him in providence or on a stretcher from a Mark Stuart run, I'd rather him learn against Nashville, Winnipeg, NYI, etc. in December/January so he will be ready for the playoffs.

That'll take some growing pains that we have to deal with throughout, but patience is key. Spooner's hockey IQ is off the charts, his defense under the right mentorship and in the right situation skyrockets, as we saw in his final junior season. Many have pointed that out.

Right now, he's without a doubt our worst defensive center, but that isn't a knock on him at all, more of a compliment to our other guys...nor is it a reason to replace him in the lineup at all. We've got Bergeron, Krejci, Loui, Kelly, Campbell, Paille, Marchand to play the PK when they're healthy. That's 7 guys already who can and have played exceptional Penalty kill. That's not mentioning Lucic, Iginla, and Smith who are all solid as a rock in their own end as well.

What Spooner brings offensively is something that some of those guys like Kelly, Campbell, Paille can't bring to the table. They're not physically capable of it. That's not a knock on them, they are different players. They don't play a two way game, they are defensive forwards.

Ryan Spooner doesn't have to be Chris Kelly, he doesn't have to be Greg Campbell, in fact...I don't ever want him to be.

We don't need another redundant player in the line up, we need someone who can bring it on the power play, who can provide speed, who can walk into the zone without dumping and ****ing chasing. Someone who will keep the defense on their toes.

So the point of Spooner playing right now is that he'll learn along the way, he'll continue to grow as a player, both offensively and defensively....and it will make the Bruins a better team. A more flexible team. A more versatile team. A team that other teams can't keep up with because their third pair D is overwhelmed by our 3rd line and their first pair has been beat to death by our incredible fore check and speed provided by the 4th line.


That's far more important than keeping a favorite player in a position he's not made for.

 

[member 96824]

I expect him to play the position better than he has.

That's because when he was called up, you expected above PPG. You said it yourself, "he better put up more than 2 points this time" is a direct quote from you referring to his first call up, which was in 2 games.

You've also expected him to be this Bergeron defensive guru, in which any mistake he makes is not even bench worthy, but send him down to providence worthy.

Also, you expected him to step into the NHL game and not miss a beat in the faceoff circle.

Also, if he did any of this....the competition wasn't good enough, and he needed to do it against better competition.

And if he did it against better competition, well then he needs to bring a better physical game...

oh and no bad shifts at all, because the drive and consistency needs to be there every single night.



These are all from you.

My player A and Player B post was ignored, and I'm quite frankly not surprised. I guess even taking out the names wasn't enough.

 

[Marc978]

Bruins played good today! Nice win!

 

[Alicat]

That's because when he was called up, you expected above PPG. You said it yourself, "he better put up more than 2 points this time" is a direct quote from you referring to his first call up, which was in 2 games.

You've also expected him to be this Bergeron defensive guru, in which any mistake he makes is not even bench worthy, but send him down to providence worthy.

Also, you expected him to step into the NHL game and not miss a beat in the faceoff circle.

Also, if he did any of this....the competition wasn't good enough, and he needed to do it against better competition.

And if he did it against better competition, well then he needs to bring a better physical game...

oh and no bad shifts at all, because the drive and consistency needs to be there every single night.



These are all from you.

My player A and Player B post was ignored, and I'm quite frankly not surprised. I guess even taking out the names wasn't enough.

I'm ignoring you because quite frankly you keep puking up numbers at that can be manipulated to support whichever position you support.

 

[member 96824]

I'm ignoring you because quite frankly you keep puking up numbers at that can be manipulated to support whichever position you support.

Those are stats. They don't change. They're not manipulated. You said Spooner needs to put up or sit down...

I pointed out 4 stats. Games played, Points, +/-, and shots. Those are static things. The merits of +/- is debatable no doubt, but I included that to show that they're equal there. On a team that is +35, Player A and Player B have both been on the ice for 1 more goal against than goal for.

I'm actually trying to have a conversation with you here about Spooner, not puking up things like "He played bad! He was hot garbage! He can't keep up offensively(that's another quote)"

Asking to count 3rd assists is trying to manipulate numbers to support a position. Using games played, points, and shots on net isn't.

 

[Alicat]

Those are stats. They don't change. They're not manipulated. You said Spooner needs to put up or sit down...

I pointed out 4 stats. Games played, Points, +/-, and shots. Those are static things. The merits of +/- is debatable no doubt, but I included that to show that they're equal there. On a team that is +35, Player A and Player B have both been on the ice for 1 more goal against than goal for.

I'm actually trying to have a conversation with you here about Spooner, not puking up things like "He played bad! He was hot garbage! He can't keep up offensively(that's another quote)"

Asking to count 3rd assists is trying to manipulate numbers to support a position. Using games played, points, and shots on net isn't.

Never asked them to count 3rd assists EVER but thanks for trying to put words into my mouth. Let's see what he does during the Cali swing.

 

[member 96824]

Never asked them to count 3rd assists EVER but thanks for trying to put words into my mouth. Let's see what he does during the Cali swing.

Sorry, you're right it was "If they counted 3rd assists he would have more points" or something like that. I don't remember the exact quote, but still...that's much more puking up manipulative things to make an argument than stats like games played, points, +/-, and shots is it not? That was the point I'm trying to make, not put words in your mouth.

I'm not using Corsi or any of that nonsense here.

But yeah, I am excited to see how Spooner does on the west coast trip. I know you view me as bias, because I am going in with a positive opinion of him, but it truly will be a good test to see where he stands today. He's proven he can play the game at an NHL level, now lets see if he can hang with the NHL's elite. Those are some damn good teams, so I do have lower expectations for him. I think he will help against those teams as he provides the speed and talent it takes to beat them, but I don't expect him to go out there and continue his .6PPG, in fact he may come back pointless...but try watching with an objective eye. You'll see that there are parts of his game that have come along way, along with parts that no doubt still need to be improved.

I'm not going to throw the book at him for what he does in 3 games by any means. That's a crazy sample to judge any player on, but it will be an interesting measuring stick for him.

I know you've been at a lot of the games recently, so maybe watching him on TV will help, where at least in my experience, you can notice different things a little better.

 

[EverettMike]

Ali, you aren't being reasonable or fair about Spooner. You are ignoring the good things he does and exaggerating his deficiencies.

 

[Alicat]

Sorry, you're right it was "If they counted 3rd assists he would have more points" or something like that. I don't remember the exact quote, but still...that's much more puking up manipulative things to make an argument than stats like games played, points, +/-, and shots is it not? That was the point I'm trying to make, not put words in your mouth.

I'm not using Corsi or any of that nonsense here.

But yeah, I am excited to see how Spooner does on the west coast trip. I may be a little bias, because I am going in with a positive opinion of him, but it truly will be a good test to see where he stands today. He's proven he can play the game at an NHL level, now lets see if he can hang with the NHL's elite. Those are some damn good teams, so I do have lower expectations for him. I think he will help against those teams as he provides the speed and talent it takes to beat them, but I don't expect him to go out there and continue his .6PPG, in fact he may come back pointless...but try watching with an objective eye. You'll see that there are parts of his game that have come along way, along with parts that no doubt still need to be improved.

I'm not going to throw the book at him for what he does in 3 games by any means. That's a crazy sample to judge any player on, but it will be an interesting measuring stick for him.

I know you've been at a lot of the games recently, so maybe watching him on TV will help, where at least in my experience, you can notice different things a little better.

Dont you dare insult me with that crap.

 

[member 96824]

Dont you dare insult me with that crap.

That wasn't meant to be insulting by any means, nor do I even have a clue how you took it in an insulting fashion? I'm jealous you've been at so many games

Unless I'm insulting myself too, because when I go to the games, I certainly don't catch every single little thing that's going on.

Simply saying that seeing a game on tape provides different perspective...not better, not worse, but just different.

 

[Alicat]

That wasn't meant to be insulting by any means, nor do I even have a clue how you took it in an insulting fashion? I'm jealous you've been at so many games

Unless I'm insulting myself too, because when I go to the games, I certainly don't catch every single little thing that's going on.

Simply saying that seeing a game on tape provides different perspective.

You think my criticism is "off base" going to games, watching it on TV makes it much worse trust me. I pick apart everyone when I'm watching it on TV.

 

[Hali33]

This thread should come with a side of popcorn cause it's been very entertaining.

 

[member 96824]

You think my criticism is "off base" going to games, watching it on TV makes it much worse trust me. I pick apart everyone when I'm watching it on TV.

So you agree with me then that watching on TV provides a different perspective. Okay, we're passed that now.

If you're able to pick apart everything on TV, then you should be picking apart good things as well no?

Either way, like I said, these next 3 games will be a good measuring stick for Spooner. They in no way tell any form of the entire story, as we're talking about 3 games here and I will always prefer to look at a players entire body of work over a week. I mean, if we are going to fight for Kelly on the third line after his 22 games in the playoffs last year, which I would argue were against elite teams, then why would we throw the book at Spooner after 3? But these should provide at least shed a little light on where Spooner stands against the NHL's elite playoff caliber teams, and how deep we truly are as a team.

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

Dont you dare insult me with that crap.

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I have respect for you Alicat even if I know you don't really care

Your not going with the wind, you stand for it, like it or not. And I like that.

I think you are a bit hard on Spooner though, but on the other hand I think people are way off track regarding Kelly. Kelly is a heck of a hockey player, that most seem to forget and exaggerate Spooner performance removing one (Kelly) for the other (Spooner). He is also a perfect 3 rd line center, left handed.

Before throwing Kelly under the bus and adding the crown on the kid, let's wait till it really counts. One thing is sure, he is fast and talented but he and his line are also pushed down and all over in D zone. Against west top teams, without last change will be a big test for him and all our rookies.

Best news is. Boston Bruins do have depth! And that's great.

ON D, they still need a 2 nd pairing D... needed to add!

 

[Fossy21]

Now I'm listening to Howlin' Wolf.

"Dat spoon, dat spoon, dat spoon, dat". It should be the goal song whenever Spooner is involved in a goal.

 

[member 96824]

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I have respect for you Alicat even if I know you don't really care

Your not going with the wind, you stand for it, like it or not. And I like that.

I think you are a bit hard on Spooner though, but on the other hand I think people are way off track regarding Kelly. Kelly is a heck of a hockey player, that most seem to forget and exaggerate Spooner performance removing one (Kelly) for the other (Spooner). He is also a perfect 3 rd line center, left handed.

Before throwing Kelly under the bus and adding the crown on the kid, let's wait till it really counts. One thing is sure, he is fast and talented but he and his line are also pushed down and all over in D zone. Against west top teams, without last change will be a big test for him and all our rookies.

Best news is. Boston Bruins do have depth! And that's great.

ON D, they still need a 2 nd pairing D... needed to add!

I can agree with this no doubt, that's why we work with Spooner as a player in January, when it doesn't count.

Kelly's last 2 years in the playoffs look like(where we would both agree it counts) look like this: 29 GP, 6 points, -6, 38 shots on goal in 16 minutes of playing time. Which are pretty consistent with his post lock out numbers.

I'm not saying I want Kelly off the team by any means, I just believe he's been playing out of position last year and this year. I believe he's better utilized on the 4th line where he can focus on a shut down role, playing the PK, fore checking, etc. The strengths of his game, and not worry as much about the offensive zone, like being in the top 9 requires. I believe it makes the Bruins a better team. Spooner has been showing that offensively, he's here ready for the NHL. Defensively, still needs some tweaks no doubt, but he's improving, getting some great coaching and mentorship, and should continue through January, February and the other months where we can allow him to develop, making us a better team come May and June

 

[member 96824]

Anyways, I'm heading to bed. Enjoyed the conversation, still don't believe Spooner had a bad game today. Looking forward to watching him continue to progress.

Having good prospects is a great thing.

 

[Mainehockey33]

Now I'm listening to Howlin' Wolf.

"Dat spoon, dat spoon, dat spoon, dat". It should be the goal song whenever Spooner is involved in a goal.

 

[Sea Bass Neely]

And get rid of Campbell?

No, you put Campbell on the wing opposite Paille once Loui and Kelly are both back, have Kelly center an improved 4th line... while simultaneously having what very much has to potential to be a top-5 3rd line in the NHL [in Soderberg-Spooner-Eriksson/Smith].

Time will tell. But Thornton should be the odd guy out... not Campbell, Kelly, or Spooner IMO. He can be the 13th guy in the rotation; injuries do happen and they can play him when the match-ups are favorable.

Plus Thorty is 36 and has a lot of mileage on his tires to say the least. If Spooner were to fall off, hypothetically speaking, Kelly could move back up and Thorty get back in the regular rotation. But why not at least give Spooner an extended look??

He's deserved at least that. No promise of a a spot in the lineup come playoffs... but a big chunk of games and NHL ice-time to show the kid what he needs to work on. How can that possibly be a bad thing??

Spooner's promise outweighs Kelly's reliability defensively, especially considering there is room on the roster for both players. But Kelly centering Merlot can only improve it, and Spooner-Soderberg-Loui (or Smith on RW if Clode takes Reilly off Bergy's line) is just better than Soderberg-Kelly-Loui/Smith.

Spooner creates opportunities. He can make impressive plays and tight passes while simultaneously operating at full speed -- which by the way he reaches after only 2-3 strides, amazing acceleration -- and that 10-2 maneuver is just gold.

Why on Earth send this young center back down to Providence when he is blossoming at a solid pace before our eyes?? At least give him a 5-15 game stretch where he absolutely sucks and does not have any assists.

For crying out loud, Caron has played in over half the young season and i don't think he has a single assist (to go with his one goal) in all that time. Spooner isn't THAT far off from averaging an apple per game and he's just started the transition... i could see if it were truly an either/or scenario but it is not!!!

It is not an either/or thing. It is whether or not to let Spooner play through his rookie mistakes now rather than later, and given the fact that he's already proven he can produce regularly (thus far anyhow) i don't see why Kelly must remain the 3rd line center.

If anything -- while he did help the Soderberg-Kelly-Smith line's defense earlier in the season big time -- Kelly's [former] line-mates were being held back by CK being a total black hole offensively.

He's a great leader, great PK'er, can do his thing in the face-off dot... but he can do that stuff on a re-vamped Merlot Line. Spooner just has too much promise to let rot in Providence, in my humble opinion.

I think as Spooner feels his way through the NHL process, he will actually make Soderberg and Eriksson/Smith better players with his creativity and vision. Soderberg is already one of the best passers on the team to begin with. When everyone is healthy that 3rd line will be unstoppable.

We shall see what Clode has to say about all this...

 

[Fossy21]

I'm one of Ginger's merely 4,976 friends on Facebook, and don't I feel special...

 

[BigBadBruins63*]

Plenty of people here and in the media. Blaming other players like Krug the other night or Fraser consistently for "holding him back".

I will rip him until he plays the two way game that all 4 of our Centers play. Offense is great but if you can't cut it defensively then Boston isn't the place for you.

But wait...Kelly doesn't play a two way game either? so.....you're going to start ripping him?

 

[Braunbaer]

But wait...Kelly doesn't play a two way game either? so.....you're going to start ripping him?

Now I am disenchanted.

But yeah, let her rip Spooner for not being as good defensively as the likes of Bergy and Kelly .

I'm sure Kelly was a contender for the Selke when he was 21.
Oh wait, he didn't even play regularly in the NHL until he was 25, you say?

 

[Skriese37]

kelly should be 4th line center at best or hopefully traded

 

[Blitzkrug]

God i enjoyed that win today. I despise the Jets and their delusional fanbase.

Gotta love how everyone in this city decided "HURR DURR I AM A JETS FAN NOW" after years of supporting someone else, yet my friends and i (both of them are Leafs and Habs fans respectively, leads to some fun trash talk some spring ) are the ones who are called bandwagoners. /rant.

...Always enjoy wins over the Jets just a wee bit more then other teams.