Friedman: “The only rental who I think is getting a #1 is Kreider”

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Kupo

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If your not a top 5 team in the league what the **** are you doing giving 1st for kreider? Lord no

GM’s that are a few points from the top-15 bubble league wide, and have an expiration date might have interest.

HF posters have no pressure. No deadline. They’re wannabe GM’s with zero expectations.

The real world is much different than HFBoards though. That’s why you have, and will continue seeing GM’s mortgage the future to try and win now.
 
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5cotland

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There is zero chance NYR trade within their own division ( Pittsburgh) just not happening. Boston a tad more realistic but they would prefer trading to the west
There is always a chance that we trade within the division but the price will just be higher.

I would really like us to trade with Carolina as they can give us a first whilst also keeping one for themselves and they have a strong pool of forward prospects which would really help us.
 
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slg1963

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There is always a chance that we trade within the division but the price will just be higher.

I would really like us to trade with Carolina as they can give us a first whilst also keeping one for themselves and they have a strong pool of forward prospects which would really help us.
Or instead of a 1st + prospect give us our 2nd back and a top prospect, that could work.
 

Jerkbait

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There is always a chance that we trade within the division but the price will just be higher.

I would really like us to trade with Carolina as they can give us a first whilst also keeping one for themselves and they have a strong pool of forward prospects which would really help us.
No they really isnt a chance. There would be a chance if it was futures for futures but its not the case. NYR are not going to make the penguins better knowing they have to compete next year. I get the fact that pitt would have to resign him .
 

BlueBaron

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There is always a chance that we trade within the division but the price will just be higher.

I would really like us to trade with Carolina as they can give us a first whilst also keeping one for themselves and they have a strong pool of forward prospects which would really help us.
I'd like you to trade with Carolina to but I know it will be Boston :P
 

BBKers

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Kreider will almost certainly come with 50% retention. He will return a #1st rounder (late) and a mid-level prospect. Maybe with a conditional pick involved somehow. This scenario is even more probable if the acquiring team needs to dump some salary to the NYR in order to facilitate another move. THIS is not rocket science folks. Supply and demand. And the acquired 1st rounder will likely get moved before/at the draft (maybe packaged) for a more finished NHL product.
 

wafflepadsave

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Ok, let it all out. Bottling up that anger is really unhealthy.

We all know that, but why would Friedman be discussing what has already happened with Hall 2 months ago when talking about what is going to happen up to the deadline?
And as a Rangers fan, hall is a better player.
 

HabsQC

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You keep saying zero knowledge but I do not think you know what that means. No one is going to give up a 1st in a deep draft for an ageing Kovi who has been a disappointment for the majority of the last 2 years. His recent play in Montreal is not going to boost his value that much and to be blunt, Kovi is not really that good. A 3rd will be about right for him.

You keep saying nobody will as if you talked to the 30 other GMs on a regulae basis. Funny thing is I agree he probably won't return it, but no one knows for sure.

His recent play in Montreal has already boosted his value. Maybe if you actually watched him play ypu would see that he's playing his heart out every single shift, has been a tremendous leader, gave hope back to MTL for the playoffs and is an amazing teammate. oh and 12pts in 15 games
 

bernmeister

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The problem with trading Kreider while still hoping to re-sign him is that, if the team he’s traded to wants to extend him and has the ability to offer him a good contract, he’s likely to take it. Yes, some players are willing to take the chance and wait until they hit UFA status so they can test the market, but a lot more realize they are a single injury away from their career (or at least their ability to command a lot of money in free agency) ending, and so if the offer’s good and they don’t hate the team they’ll take the security of a long term deal over the possibility of making slightly more or being able to choose their destination in half a year.

That being the case, if the Rangers want to get something for Kreider while still being confident in their ability to sign him in the summer, they should trade him to a team that they know isn’t interested in bringing him back and would only be using him as a rental. The issue there is that such a team would likely not be willing to pay as much for him, as from their perspective they would be buying only his services for the remainder of the season and not also a head start on being able to negotiate with him for a new deal. So the dilemma the Rangers have (if it is true that they would like to bring him back) is do they seek to maximize his return and take the risk of losing him to the buying team, or do they move him to a team that they know won’t re-sign him at what would likely be a suboptimal price?

That's a big assumption. Not impossible to see, but certainly not a given. If there is merely "a good contract" [say conventional wisdom of 7 per] Rangers can compete with 6.2 x 5. If someone went crazy and offered Kreider 9-10 per, who could blame him for saying yes and the Rangers for saying no.

Some of us hoped Hayes, who is younger, might return at a do-able number, even if it invoked a wince. But Flyers stepped up with not only top dollar but also long term. With NY correctly grabbing Panarin and Trouba and failing to have heeded my insistence on shedding excess vets it was buh bye to Hayes, who chose to come here and who I think might have come back if it was ballpark close.

There is another factor. Money is not irrelevant but for some people in NY it is a manageable factor. Kreider is a guy, he scratches our back here, he earns a huge chit as a fan favorite, he writes his own ticket when he hangs up his skates.

The ?s are how many years does he want to add the extra wear and tear on his body vs a Cup push vs comfort. This guy is a magnificent physical specimen. Barring injury, he hits 34 years old fine. Breakdowns maybe start after that if at all, but there is your risk, not so much before, IMO.

The Rangers have some nice prospects about to emerge. They need to lose the excess vets to get to a core, but he has chemistry with Zib, they just need a facilitator to complete that line.

conclusion: tell Chris beforehand, we want to keep you a Ranger it is difficult to manufacture cap right now, we can conceivably do that post season. Would you please be good letting us pimp your ass out for half a season, so we can get some swag?

It is distasteful to have to go there, but this is the price you pay when too much of the base listened to the win now crowd with Clowe, EStaal etc overreaches and retaining too long on some vets.

Kreider does more than just jump out of a pool from a dead stop [start]. History of academic excellence suggests he is a smart guy.
We see how well Chapman returning to Yankees netting Gleyber Torres was best for everyone. Chris must be aware of that, can read the lines, between the lines.
Hopefully GMJG is not an idiot attempting to dictate hardball terms turning CK off. As long as that is not the case, we have a decent chance he returns after rental pimp out.
 

bernmeister

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Pretty sure Kovy will get a 1st too. One of the best players of the century on a great streak and super motivated to win the Cup before retiring, with a negligible cap hit too.

Aerosmith stops by and says hi, adding:
dream on, dream on, dream until your dreams come true, true...

various factors, less than a 2nd, but Kovy + maybe = 2nd
 
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WojtekWolski86

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They're 5-5-0 in their last 10 games, still 9 points out with multiple teams to pass for a WC spot and Kreider is a UFA who they probably won't re-sign... he's almost certainly getting traded unless the Rangers win at least 6 or 7 of their next 8 games before the deadline and even then he still might move.

I think the real question is who replaces Kreider's role in the top 6? We have a bunch of finesse players and then Kreider. Who are we drafting this year with either pick that is comparable? Unless the Rangers trade for Josh Anderson or Greenaway in a seperate deal they need to find a way to trade Strome, Fast and Skjei to make room for Kreider's salary.
 

bernmeister

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Besides, y'know, his inconsistency and the fact that his game is hugely dependent on his physical aspect, which will decline (probably significantly) as he ages?

Disagree.
Inconsistency
Most players are not like Panarin who is so good you put anyone next to him and he still excels and drags them with him.

Chemistry is a fragile, intangible thing.
Yet we recognize the difference of CK w/Zib and without. Still a good, effective player. But a whole other dynamic.

The other factor is stabilization of a line = familiarization = faster reaction results and other good stuff.
Chris and Mika are there, but despite my calls to put a certain facilitator there, even as an experiment, no, we use the truly inconsistent Buch, or others who were 1st round selections, etc, and we see the results.
In this particular instance, the track record verifies bernmeister MAY be proven right if his experiment is given a chance, but the conventional wisdom, to date, is demonstrating itself to be wrong.

CK is pacing himself, not going full afterburners 111% of the time.
Have no prob with his efforts or results.

-----
as to the bold, he is a great physical specimen. He should be okay 5 years if he is careful on ice and diligent about staying in shape, which I expect him to maintain.
 

Calad

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The chances of him being traded and re-signed are so small they’re not worth considering imo.

If they move him, he’s likely gone

It is very poor asset management to not trade him at the deadline, he is the biggest fish and our system is lacking depth at forward. To be able to get a 1st and another young forward/prospect would be a boon for this franchise.

I don't think we should necessarily plan on him returning, but I am all for trying to sign him in July after a trade. If he'd rather sign elsewhere for more money term, so be it, that is his right and he was likely going to pursue the open market anyways.
 
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Shootertooter

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Chris and Mika are there, but despite my calls to put a certain facilitator there, even as an experiment, no, we use the truly inconsistent Buch, or others who were 1st round selections, etc, and we see the results.
In this particular instance, the track record verifies bernmeister MAY be proven right if his experiment is given a chance, but the conventional wisdom, to date, is demonstrating itself to be wrong.

I don't think you understand what the word "facilitator" means.
Also, you obviously are referring to Nieves as "facilitator"....one who makes things easier.......if that is the case........your "experiment" has already been concluded in your mind. This has even less credence than before at this point.

You may be proven right if what you said could actually be measured but you will not be "right" until what you actually said comes to fruition and is proven viable. Sometimes in life some things are such bad ideas that actually trying them would be terrible. Your Nieves synergy dream is one of those terrible ideas that no rational person would consider. It is comical that you remain so desperate to be correct about something so far fetched and poorly thought out.
 
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Captain Mountain

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You keep saying zero knowledge but I do not think you know what that means. No one is going to give up a 1st in a deep draft for an ageing Kovi who has been a disappointment for the majority of the last 2 years. His recent play in Montreal is not going to boost his value that much and to be blunt, Kovi is not really that good. A 3rd will be about right for him.

People on here keep saying its a deep draft, but Bobby Mac and other draft insiders keep saying outside of the top-10 its an average draft in terms of depth.
 

bert

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Way better playoff player than Kreider?
Kreider has played in twice as many playoff games as Pageau and has more than twice as many playoff points as Pageau
Pageau has scored at a higher GPG than Kreider in the playoffs. Plays a more important position and matches up against the oppositions best players. Not sure what total games has to do with making one player better than the other.
 

TGWL

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Friedman also said on the leaf broadcast he predicts that Demelo is getting traded to the leafs and the only reason he wants to see that was to see sens fans react. Verbatum he has a real hate on the for the sens so I am not suprised he would say something like that.

Pageau has been a way better playoff player than Kreider and his production currently isnt far off he has more goals, while playing a more important postion is better defensively and he is younger. I dont see how Kreider holds more value.

The difference is Pageau right now has 13 points in 25 games. 6 in his last 15. Kreider has 25 points in 25 games and 14 in his last 15. I really like Pageau, and sample size is sample size, but Kreider is currently the hotter player going into the deadline.
 

bert

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See, when you think HFB cant get crazier, stuff like this gets posted.

Even when Kreider has played double the amount of play off games, scored nearly double the amount of play off goals and has more than double the amount of play off points, you still put up a commendable arguement.

But hey, dont let true stats and performances take that away trying to convince yourself that Pageau is better than Kreider.
So they score at the same production rate while one player plays a more important position in a center matchup role without pp time. I guess you just have ptsd from when Pageau sniped 4 on your favorite team.

Again what does the total amount of games have to do with anything when evaluating a player? Does that make Joe Thornton currently the best centerman in hockey?

It doesnt make sense that Kreider is worth a first and Pageau isnt. Thats all i am saying.
 

haveandare

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It is very poor asset management to not trade him at the deadline, he is the biggest fish and our system is lacking depth at forward. To be able to get a 1st and another young forward/prospect would be a boon for this franchise.

I don't think we should necessarily plan on him returning, but I am all for trying to sign him in July after a trade. If he'd rather sign elsewhere for more money term, so be it, that is his right and he was likely going to pursue the open market anyways.
Imo keeping him helps the forward depth quite a bit. LW is downright pathetic without him. And given the rumors about deadline values, I really don’t see the return for him including a forward with realistic high end upside.

I personally value having him as a reliable vet and leader over a late, late first and a bottom 6 prospect. If the return is more than that, it becomes a bigger question. But if he’s the only guy maybe returning a first at all, I wouldn’t expect a really solid prospect coming along with it. More likely a Lemieux type, which is good in its own way, but it’s not going to make any progress toward filling out the top 6.
 
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