Friedman: “Habs management has been told to rebuild and stock up on picks and prospects.”

[didimentionlarseller]

I think people can't move past Weber's relative contract value from way back in the offer sheet days and think he's currently getting 12 AAV or something

That Phaneuf comparison is laughable

I hate Bergevin for trading Subban to get Weber but when he learns to walk again he is clearly much better than Phaneuf its not even close

god you suck Bergevin

 

[Liferleafer]

I think people can't move past Weber's relative contract value from way back in the offer sheet days and think he's currently getting 12 AAV or something

That Phaneuf comparison is laughable

I hate Bergevin for trading Subban to get Weber but when he learns to walk again he is clearly much better than Phaneuf its not even close

god you suck Bergevin

So my 1st+2nd+2nd offer ain't so bad then? No? Well back to Tanev then...oh Nucks fans!!!

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

You are incorrect. No one is giving up a top four defenceman for Pacioretty bad year or no bad year.

I assume you mean for 1 year.

You were also debating that Pacioretty had more value than Klefbom and said he didn't. I explained how Pacioretty does have more value and never said he was worth a top 4 dman with 1 year left.

 

[Mr Positive]

I don't get it.

They had injuries. They have some big contracts, and should be trying to win now. At the very least, you'd think that they'd try to sign Tavares before going this route.

I have a feeling that ownership has said that they are okay with rebuilding if that's what's best for the team, but aren't demanding it.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I assume you mean for 1 year.

You were also debating that Pacioretty had more value than Klefbom and said he didn't. I explained how Pacioretty does have more value and never said he was worth a top 4 dman with 1 year left.

Pacioretty 1 year remaining <<< Klefbom for five years. Frankly it’s really not close at all. You contradict yourself a few times there.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Pacioretty 1 year remaining <<< Klefbom for five years. Frankly it’s really not close at all. You contradict yourself a few times there.

Where ?

There's a bit of risk with Klefbom. If he doesn't return to form, you got a buyout/cap dump/overpaid dman on your roster. You seem to be neglecting that.

I stated that both have a risk attached, however Pacioretty is more proven to be a a high-end winger than Klefbom is as a dman.

Unrelated, what's up with hf always assuming when someone turns 30 they're done ?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I don't get it.

They had injuries. They have some big contracts, and should be trying to win now. At the very least, you'd think that they'd try to sign Tavares before going this route.

I have a feeling that ownership has said that they are okay with rebuilding if that's what's best for the team, but aren't demanding it.

The way I see it is that they told bergevin not to use any draft picks to acquire someone and to sell players like Pacioretty that have only 1 year left.

The has already have the 3rd overall pick and four 2nd round picks. So getting a few more top 2 rounds picks and the habs could basically do a rebuild in 1 draft.

They won't sell guys core guys like Price and Weber. They obviously will try to get Tavares.

They probably pick Kotkaniemi with their 1st pick, so even if they dont acquire Tavares, at least they have a guy with 1C potential in their system.

They hope the habs make the playoffs, but its not an absolute necessity. They won't sacrifice the future (picks/prospects) to make the playoffs.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Where ?

There's a bit of risk with Klefbom. If he doesn't return to form, you got a buyout/cap dump/overpaid dman on your roster. You seem to be neglecting that.

I stated that both have a risk attached, however Pacioretty is more proven to be a a high-end winger than Klefbom is as a dman.

Unrelated, what's up with hf always assuming when someone turns 30 they're done ?

Well, in Pacioretty’s case, he DID look done. Pacioretty’s risk is a great deal higher than Klefbom’s. Even if Klef doesn’t return to 16-17 form he’s still a top four defenceman under contract for five seasons. Pacioretty can walk in 82 games. That’s not a ‘gap’ in value, it’s a chasm.

I’d much sooner bank on a 24 year old defenceman returning to form and having him under contract at a bargain for five years than having Pacioretty for one season after he looked old, slow, and disinterested. Klefbom was injured all year and and sill played 22 minutes a night in our top four. Why would we gamble that for a single season of Pacioretty, after which - if he’s as bad as he was last year - we have a 2nd round pick and some crap?

You’re really stretching if you think anyone will deal you a key piece of their team for 82 games of Pacioretty. You’re looking at a pick, a conditional pick, and a B+ prospect.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Would they replace Barbashev with Thompson?

Fabbri
Walman
Thompson
Boumeester
Allen
1st round pick’19

How about

Allen+JBo+Fabbri+Thompson+Walman+’19 1st for Price+Patches+Benn+4th

Blues could then trade Sobotka+Gunnarsson contracts and sign Tavares @ 10.5 mil.


Pacioretty-Tavares-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Schenn-Kyrou
Steen-Thomas-Berglund
Barbashev-Brodziak-Jaskin

Edmundson-Pietrangelo
Dunn-Parayko
Benn-Schmaltz
Bortuzzo

Price
Husso

 

[didimentionlarseller]

So my 1st+2nd+2nd offer ain't so bad then? No? Well back to Tanev then...oh Nucks fans!!!

I was responding to this not you

"People saying Weber's contract is "easily tradeable" are out to lunch
His contract now is worse then the Phaneuf contract and we saw the struggle Toronto had to eventually deal that contract."

Weber is not Phaneuf - Phaneuf has never been on Weber's level

 

[SmellOfVictory]

It's too bad the Flames don't have any picks left to trade, because Gallagher would be hella nice.

 

[Siludin]

I used to think Bergevin was a talented GM. Really jumped the shark with the Subban trade and hiring Therrien.

 

[Siludin]

The honest truth in Montreal is they care way too much about Frenchness and they will never find success while pandering to that ideology.

 

[Goldenhands]

The honest truth in Montreal is they care way too much about Frenchness and they will never find success while pandering to that ideology.

I dont think so, every Stanley cups we won, we had a couple of frenchies on... I know the game has changed and its now more of a business for both sides but I still think adding quality french players will help the leadership and team chimestry at some point... Tading Sergachev for Drouin looks bad at the moments but when we get real top 6 centers and Drouin moves back to wing, that trade might not look that bad at the end.. Sergachev had a good overall rookie season, but thats a kid who doesnt like to be hit and has some brain cramps at times too... Habs cleared their AHL coach and replaced him by a very good one in Joel Bouchard, this guy made some very ordinary Armada teams highly competitive over the years, he is one of the reasons why the Q is getting better and better, so is Ducharme, who won the last U20 gold medal for team Canada, will assist Julien and possibly replace him down the road...

 

[didimentionlarseller]

Drouin moves back to wing, that trade might not look that bad at the end.. Sergachev had a good overall rookie season, but thats a kid who doesnt like to be hit

how do we win a trade where Bergevin gave up his best prospect for.....a winger.....to play centre

 

[terrible dee]

I dont think so, every Stanley cups we won, we had a couple of frenchies on... I know the game has changed and its now more of a business for both sides but I still think adding quality french players will help the leadership and team chimestry at some point... Tading Sergachev for Drouin looks bad at the moments but when we get real top 6 centers and Drouin moves back to wing, that trade might not look that bad at the end.. Sergachev had a good overall rookie season, but thats a kid who doesnt like to be hit and has some brain cramps at times too... Habs cleared their AHL coach and replaced him by a very good one in Joel Bouchard, this guy made some very ordinary Armada teams highly competitive over the years, he is one of the reasons why the Q is getting better and better, so is Ducharme, who won the last U20 gold medal for team Canada, will assist Julien and possibly replace him down the road...

I like that they do that, it reminds me of a time when NHL teams had real personalities and weren't just a bunch of carbon copies, I liked the days when teams had THEIR PLAYERS and a big part of the Canadiens identity (And entertainment value) was in having French players who grew up worshiping those colors

I'm not a Habs fan but that kind of thing made hockey waaay more fun to watch, for those og you who are young, YOU HAVE NO IDEA how much better the NHL used to be,

Prior to 1995, when it was on its game, (and it wasn't always on) and the drama and emotion were reaching critical mass (It was MUCH easier to get there back then, now they make it nearly impossible) There was nothing in all of entertainment that rivaled the NHL

What you see today is only a shell of what used to be, it's like watching robots or computer controlled simulation games today. Advanced stats only came into being as the entertainment value began to fall and hardcore fans needed something to keep themselves interested.

 

[terrible dee]

Talbot, Klefbom, Lucic, 10th OA, EDM 2019 2nd

Price (30 % retained), Weber (30 % retained), Pacioretty

Rest is up to Chiarelli if he can make the cap work.

OH god!!!!!!

I can actually SMELL this proposal! EWWWWWWW!!!

NO WAY......I honestly don't think any owner would allow a GM to take Price's contract on, it may be the worst contract this league has ever seen. And why would they want Price over Talbot? At this point in time, Talbot is the better goaltender, and will quite possibly remain so going forward, Price's declining play, his shaky health situation and his nightmare contract means there is no incentive at all to trade for him, he's not Roy, he has never put the team on his back and WON something, he's a guy who was hyped up for years, but now that he's on the back 9, its obvious he will never be the guy he was supposed to be, he's an average goalie at a time when goatending has never been cheaper or less important,

They WOULD LOVE to get Weber

Paches is an expiring contract and a Vanilla player, he doesn't excite anyone, nor is he perceived to be much of a difference maker, that's why he hasn't been dealt, nobody really wants him, except at a nominal price.

So one HORRIBLE curse of a goaltender

One great (But aging) D man

And one inconsequential winger

Will not get you that jackpot of a return, I think Kleffbom and Lucic for Weber is a real possibility, I'd stick with that idea.

 

[terrible dee]

If we do take a defenseman at 3, it should not be Bouchard. I'd take Hughes, Boqvist AND Dobson all over him

It will be Bouchard, of course, it will

YOU KNOW IT WILL,

And that's the ONLY reason Berg was trying to trade down

 

[terrible dee]

true story: .... just today one of the Habs fan that I work with said Carey Price was being traded to Vancouver for Brock Boeser and two first round picks.

That is symptomatic of how delusional Habs fans are...its really weird...

....but....seeing as how Benning is still at the helm for the Canucks and has the mental capabilities (And vocabulary) of a 12 year old....I'm scared....Benning IS stupid enough to do that

 

[terrible dee]

Ok...i take it back, this is one offer i would pay to beat as a Leafs fan. I will offer the same as i have been for Tanev..1st+2nd+2nd.

A first and two seconds for Tanev.....I'd consider that

 

[n00bxQb]

That is symptomatic of how delusional Habs fans are...its really weird...

....but....seeing as how Benning is still at the helm for the Canucks and has the mental capabilities (And vocabulary) of a 12 year old....I'm scared....Benning IS stupid enough to do that

Benning is more "trade the 18/19-year-old project for a 22/23-year-old project" or "trade our project and a pick for your project that our coach has coached in junior" kind of guy from his past transactions.

I really dislike Benning, but that trade doesn't really fit his profile.

 

[terrible dee]

That might be a little extreme but I don't see Price moving without some serious retention. Maybe bring his AAV down to 7. Then they could move him but I still think the return would be small. The problem is he is 30 and his deal is just starting. And he has been injured a lot lately. I don't follow him closely enough to know if that was bad luck or if he is at the beginning of breaking down.

Who in the hell wants to pay ANY goaltender 7 million a year?!?!?

Let alone a goalie who won't even be in the top third of starters statistically?

Goaltending is CHEAP in 2018, you can sign someone who will give you what Price does or better for 2.5 million

There is NO INCENTIVE AT ALL for ANY team to take Price

He's staying, get used to it.

 

[terrible dee]

Benning is more "trade the 18/19-year-old project for a 22/23-year-old project" or "trade our project and a pick for your project that our coach has coached in junior" kind of guy from his past transactions.

I really dislike Benning, but that trade doesn't really fit his profile.

I have much looser criteria for a "classic Benning" move

Usually starts with me saying: "AGHH!! NOOOOOOO!!!!"

So hearing things like that make me jumpy

 

[terrible dee]

Here's how Price's contract ends up working:

Possibility 1: You get the franchise, world-class goaltender that Bergevin signed to the contract, and he's worth every penny
Possibility 2: He's injured a ton, you slap him on IR and voila its like magic!

Price as he is today, with no retention, would fetch an 8-12th pick, a conditional 1st, and a roster player. Anything less, the Habs go nowhere near it and just keep Price. They can afford his contract, and they get either a healthy elite goaltender or they slap him on the IR and move on. Paying assets to get rid of his contract if they're trying to rebuild is quite literally the most stupid thing I have ever read on this forum board.

We get it, you're edgy and want to ride the "he's overpaid nobody wants that bad contract" train but it requires you to be generally stupid to believe that the Habs would have to package him with the THIRD OVERALL PICK to move his contract.

To the OP:

Habs aren't rebuilding, Friedman is off his rocker on this one.

Should they, is another discussion entirely --- but so long as Bergevin is the GM, they won't be rebuilding. To have him try and move players that he signed/traded for (Alzner, Shaw, Weber), to take a bad deal and move Price (who he gave the extension to), to have traded Sergachev --- it just isn't going to be a good time. If he goes out and moves those four players, he will have officially decimated his ability to work for any organization ever once Montreal inevitably cans him. That is literally admitting that everything he has done here was wrong and a waste minus the Petry and Danault moves.

Subban shouldn't have been moved (or at the very least, moved for young players/picks)
Sergachev shouldn't have been moved (I like Drouin but future star defenseman don't grow on trees)
Shaw shouldn't have ever been acquired (Love the guy, but DeBrincat is alone more valuable --- two seconds for virtually nothing)
Price shouldn't have been thrown an extension a year in advance, but it's not the end of the world because the dude will bounce back
DSP and Eller should not have been traded --- heart and soul guys who played hard and well for the Canadiens; moved because they didn't fit the Therrien CHaracter regime (Grats to them on the cup though)
Alzner's signing was atrocious --- he literally is a pylon getting paid way too much
Markov should have been resigned --- dude's an all-star and would have been our best LD this year despite being 80 years old and working on a plastic knee
Radulov should have been resigned --- I miss Tickles

A rebuild is him admitting to all of that --- it won't happen. If anything, this is a tactic to get offers on the entire team, without actually saying "hey guys we're selling".

Yes, so like everyone has told you...........YOU ARE KEEPING PRICE...the end

I would love to see your face if you were allowed to watch Berg try and trade him, his "True value today" is:

NO! *CLICK*

 

[terrible dee]

You trade high paid vets if you have a need to get rid of their contracts. Not because you're rebuilding. At least that's the luxury of being a wealthy team like the habs or leafs.

No....you don't, you just made that up......don't just pull stuff out of your ass, people here are knowledgeable hockey fans