detredWINgs
Registered User
That's the thing. I don't give two ***** if he passes the eye test right now. We need to know if he's still capable of being the 50-60 point center he was in Florida. Now is as good a time as any.
Injury Report: Zetterberg Back Dec. 28 (Post 255)
- Thread starter Mister Ed
- Start date
That's the thing. I don't give two ***** if he passes the eye test right now. We need to know if he's still capable of being the 50-60 point center he was in Florida. Now is as good a time as any.
Vladdy84
L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Agreed. Before he had that injury issue he was starting to look really good. Perhaps he's struggling with confidence or is still not 100%. However, it's compounded by the fact that lately he's been playing on the 4th line with Clears and Sammy. I think Sammy has looked decent out there. Still those are not linemates to help Weiss excel. Hopefully he's given some skilled mates in the top 6 and runs with it.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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When I read the tweet this morning that Zetterberg was out 2 weeks, I spit coffee all over my monitor at work. So not happy about this.
Couple thoughts....
1. Really sucks it happened when it seems like we had so much momentum
2. Don't really understand why Emmerton was chosen to come up
3. My preferred choice would have been Sheahan as 3C.
4. Don't really think Jarnkrok would fare well against top 9 NHL competition at this point in time. But on the other hand, I would love to see what he could do on the point on the 2nd PP unit, to see if he could take Sammy's spot there. All in all, not that mad he wasn't chosen to be called up. But he's always been a bit over-hyped in my eyes.
Couple thoughts....
1. Really sucks it happened when it seems like we had so much momentum
2. Don't really understand why Emmerton was chosen to come up
3. My preferred choice would have been Sheahan as 3C.
4. Don't really think Jarnkrok would fare well against top 9 NHL competition at this point in time. But on the other hand, I would love to see what he could do on the point on the 2nd PP unit, to see if he could take Sammy's spot there. All in all, not that mad he wasn't chosen to be called up. But he's always been a bit over-hyped in my eyes.
Heaton
Moderator
This has been said about a dozen times already, but Emmerton was called up because he's one of two players the Wings can fit under the salary cap. They do not have the space to call up anyone else.
Why would you use Riley Sheahan as the #3C instead of Joakim Andersson? There's no point of that. Give Corey Emmerton fourth line minutes which adds another body to a very strong PK. With Emmerton up, Sheahan gets an even bigger role in Grand Rapids.
Corey Emmerton may not be great. May be invisible, but he does his job well. He's not a liability, is solid defensively, and is awful offensively, which is okay. Not like we count on the fourth line for goals. Fourth line looks better with Emmerton on it than Weiss. Weiss' backchecking has been awful. You already have Samuelsson who doesn't do much defensively.
I'm hoping Emmerton plays well, and gets claimed or dealt when Zetterberg returns. Better than playing in the minors when you're capable of being an NHL fourth line centre.
Corey Emmerton may not be great. May be invisible, but he does his job well. He's not a liability, is solid defensively, and is awful offensively, which is okay. Not like we count on the fourth line for goals. Fourth line looks better with Emmerton on it than Weiss. Weiss' backchecking has been awful. You already have Samuelsson who doesn't do much defensively.
I'm hoping Emmerton plays well, and gets claimed or dealt when Zetterberg returns. Better than playing in the minors when you're capable of being an NHL fourth line centre.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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As I just worked my way back through the thread, I realize that now. Sorry should have went through more from the beginning.
It seems like from what I read on Mlive, there's a shot Z may go on LTIR. If that happens I guess it will be interesting to see what they do.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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Disagree there. Sheahan is a better hockey player in every possible way, except maybe faceoffs, as far as I'm concerned. Joakim Andersson brings very little to the table IMO, he's only as good as the wings you play him with.
This is a good point, and something to consider. And honestly it doesn't even matter, since there's not enough cap room to call up Sheahan if we wanted haha.
Let's be honest here, Riley Sheahan has never really killed it offensively in any league. To be fair, he's played in men leagues. Has never really done anything to prove that he's a #3C right now. If anything, a #4C if up. Joakim Andersson is better right now, and a much better fit. He knows what to do offensively, and that's give the puck off and play strong defensively.
Last year, Joakim Andersson's PPG in the AHL was actually much higher than Sheahan's. Not to mention Andersson is solid defensively. I think he's aroudn 2:30 per game on the PK. If we were to bring up a top nine forward (not needed), I'd want to give Tomas Jurco a chance.
Cyborg Yzerberg
Registered User
Weiss looks like he lacks confidence, he's playing timid, passes very quickly too.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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I'm not talking about killing it offensively, I'm talking about taking over as the 4th or possibly 3rd center.
Have you seen Sheahan play much? You mentioned in your post twice that Andersson is "strong defensively". That happens to be Sheahan's biggest strength as well. Everything that Andersson is good at, Sheahan is good at. But the difference being, Sheahan doesn't share Andersson's inability to skate.
I'd like to see Sheahan get Andersson's role to compare the two. I think once he got adjusted, Sheahan would be an upgrade in not too long at all.
But Andersson is a lot like Emmerton to me. Forgettable and replaceable. I don't know if Sheahan will even be any better than these guys, but I'd like to see.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
Have to disagree here, much like Frk It was stating the only true advantage is in the face-off department. Andersson's skating issues are a much bigger deal at this level. Now assuming they don't mess with his line all is not lost, but he is going to need two burners on his line at all times until he either gains a half step or even a full step. Sheahan is just as responsible defensively, has better offensive tools and keeps up to the pace of play more often. Sheahan's skating has actually got even better this year and it wasn't a weakness to begin with.
Andersson is a very smart hockey player, he has learned to play with his problems, but he will more than likely always need some protection and the right linemates. As long as we plan for that we are fine, but that miserable stretch with Cleary and Bert was a preview of what happens when he doesn't have the speed flanking him. Without he can get pinned in his zone and all the position savvy in the world doesn't really help him, he cannot really help break zone pressure. Sheahan has the speed and board play advantage over him to stem the tide when his unit gets pinned.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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Good point here. Let's not forget that Andersson's plus/minus was absolutely in the garbage earlier this year. Even now it's still -3 which is bottom 5 among forwards that have played 20+ games.
I have watched Riley Sheahan. I watch a bit of Grand Rapids games, and paid close attention to him in pre-season as well. He's yet to show that he can come up to the Red Wings and take over a #3C spot. He hasn't.
I've said this before too, but why mess something up? Joakim Andersson has been performing well on line 3. Line 4 is a different story, I'll agree with both of you guys there. Okay, Dan Cleary and Todd Bertuzzi did not work out. Are you shocked? Both are poor skaters. Henrik Zetterberg likely struggles with them too.
Joakim Andersson has a great stick defensively, and is pretty strong at cuttling off angles and backchecking. He's been producing. He knows where to go, and how to work with skilled players. But to say Riley Sheahan is better offensively is shocking to me. Andersson is smarter in that area. Right now, he's a better fit at this level.
Andersson's numbers are improving from last season. He's getting the second most PK time on the 2nd best PK in the NHL. He's meshing in well with Tomas Tatar. He's a career bottom six centre. Is Riley Sheahan's potential really that much higher than that? He's shown some flashes offensively, but he's never been anything amazing. Andersson's numbers in the AHL were much better. Could age factor in there? For sure. But that's reality.
Truth is, we're a different team now. Look at the top nine wingers. You have Daniel Alfredsson, Tomas Tatar, Gustav Nyquist, Johan Franzen, Justin Abdelkader and insert player here (Drew Miller right now, Todd Bertuzzi). When Bert is up, he's with Datsyuk. Up there, the only defensive liability is Tomas Tatar, and Andersson has done just fine playing with him. Those guys are all fast, so us worrying about that is pointless. Dan Cleary has settled into the fourth line role, and that's where he will liekly stay if things go right. Andersson's IQ is very key in playing with Tatar, Alfredsson, Nyquist, etc. Also, the best third line play is when Tatar has the puck. He's the creater. Andersson does a great job drawing defenders, finding him, and going to the net.
I like Riley Sheahan, but I can't see him performing well on line 3 this season. I wouldn't be against line 4 time, which is where Andersson will likely return if Stephen Weiss can get it done. He'll likely have Drew Miller on his wing there too for good.
He played with Todd Bertuzzi and Daniel Cleary early on... Let's not forget that the team was absolutely short on depth due to certain lines and things like that. Bert can't perform outside the top six, just really Datsyuk to be exact, and Cleary as much as I love him, is shot as a top nine forward. You can't fault Andersson too much for that, if at all.
Henkka
Registered User
Andersson has played most with Quincey-Smith, who netted almost all minuses in the start of the season.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
Yes at least for me, Riley Sheahan's ceiling remains much higher. Sheahan is a very good PK guy as well and drives the net quite a bit. He is an upgrade in terms of the NHL level where speed plays a bigger premium. Last November and December he took Andersson's spot in Grand Rapids and there was an uptick from Nyquist and Tatar. The line could play faster, they could cycle better as Sheahan is able to accelerate in behind the net and in the corner away from guys.
I don't need Andersson gone, but both Glendening and Sheahan provide a better speed game and are heavier guys in puck battles where Andersson is still very average despite his size. A part of that is he cannot gamble, he cannot seal guys very often, he simply doesn't have the foot speed to do so. He sags to the middle of the ice and does an excellent job there. I am not saying get him off the team, heck they are alternating Ferraro and Sheahan at the wing some this year, so clearly they are getting ready for that, but on a game by game basis of watching these two Sheahan has better offensive feel. He can hold the puck longer, he can stress the defense in transition and does well at sucking guys close to the net as well.
The one thing I have said over and over is I do really enjoy just how much time you can tell Andersson puts into his game. That guy busts his *** to get the best he can, but we will still need to protect him. I don't think we will need to protect Sheahan long at the next level he is ideally suited to learn in the bottom six and continue to add to his game. His callups have been brief (too brief for him to get comfortable) but he is progressing nicely in terms of the eye test, reminds me a lot of Jarret Stoll.
Really ideally he will be protected by Sheahan, Ferraro or Glendening shortly, all have the speed to cover for him. They can cheat on the draw without a care in the world. That has the makings of a great shutdown line at the NHL level, a fourth line that if you make mistakes they can score, they are annoying to play against and getting them stuck with your first line isn't the same as it is with most teams fourth lines. I think both Sheahan and Ferraro have the ability to move up the lineup from there though.
I don't need Andersson gone, but both Glendening and Sheahan provide a better speed game and are heavier guys in puck battles where Andersson is still very average despite his size. A part of that is he cannot gamble, he cannot seal guys very often, he simply doesn't have the foot speed to do so. He sags to the middle of the ice and does an excellent job there. I am not saying get him off the team, heck they are alternating Ferraro and Sheahan at the wing some this year, so clearly they are getting ready for that, but on a game by game basis of watching these two Sheahan has better offensive feel. He can hold the puck longer, he can stress the defense in transition and does well at sucking guys close to the net as well.
The one thing I have said over and over is I do really enjoy just how much time you can tell Andersson puts into his game. That guy busts his *** to get the best he can, but we will still need to protect him. I don't think we will need to protect Sheahan long at the next level he is ideally suited to learn in the bottom six and continue to add to his game. His callups have been brief (too brief for him to get comfortable) but he is progressing nicely in terms of the eye test, reminds me a lot of Jarret Stoll.
Really ideally he will be protected by Sheahan, Ferraro or Glendening shortly, all have the speed to cover for him. They can cheat on the draw without a care in the world. That has the makings of a great shutdown line at the NHL level, a fourth line that if you make mistakes they can score, they are annoying to play against and getting them stuck with your first line isn't the same as it is with most teams fourth lines. I think both Sheahan and Ferraro have the ability to move up the lineup from there though.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
Our centers are a lot better than yours to begin with though. You only have one player of this caliber and it is Kessel and he isn't the two way force (while actually vastly more improved than most around here give him credit for) that either Datsyuk and Zetterberg are.
I mean we are debating Andresson on this page and both Andersson and Cory Emmerton gave Bolland fits in the Chicago series and games over the last couple years. Now I realize he had a good start and everything was hunky dory in Toronto on him, but honestly only Kadri isn't fourth line center material here. Yes I am saying we would keep Helm over Bozak, hard to argue with now especially since the numbers are finally there for Helm.
Detroit Swed Wings
#FireHolland
PullHard
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Our forward groups are inverted. Toronto's best Cs are Bozak, Kadri, and Bolland. Our best wingers are Alfredsson, I guess Franzen, and then debatable between ... Nyquist? Tatar? Bertuzzi? Zetterberg when he is playing wing, obviously.
Losing your Cs always hurts but Toronto is the one team that should be able to stomach it as their Cs aren't that great to begin with.
LeighDx59
Registered User
Just imagine how much more scarier our team would be if Weiss got it going offensively while the Euro-Twins are out. I think putting him in a center position in the top six will be good for him, nobody outside of our top line was doing anything good earlier in the season. Now, you got Nyquist doing well, Franzen and Helm are doing fantastic, Alfie is being Alfie. Essentially this is Weiss' time to show everyone why he got that contract, really hoping Babcock gives him the chance.
SoupNazi
Serenity now. Insanity later.
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That's what I have noticed about him, as well. There is a definite lack of any sort of confidence there and that needs to change.
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Seriously that is the absolute worst thing you can say. That is just inviting for something more to happen.
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