Player Discussion Zack MacEwen signed for 3 years @ $775,000

[DaveMatthew]

This (see below) is the part of the conversation I was replying to. If it was about eye test vs analytics I would not have responded this way. It was an appeal to authority . I don't even disagree totally with Methot here , but the point I was making is there are a lot of smart hockey people that did not play in the NHL. Not very deep.

Fair.

Methot does talk a lot about the impact a guy like MacEwen (or Watson, Reaves, Deslauriers, etc) can have on a team though, in ways that go beyond analytics. And that is something that NHL Twitter knows way less about, and so quickly dismisses, as soon a player signs and JFresh posts one of his cards. So that's where his pushback comes from, and I tend to agree with him.

Unless you've played at a high-level, there are some things you don't know about. Many managers, who haven't played (like Dubas or Brisebois), learn those things by being around a team for years. But most fans, even the very opinionated ones on Twitter (like Luszyszyn or Wheeler) don't get that chance to be around a team. And yet they're the first ones to say that a guy like Reaves will have zero impact on the Leafs and having him on the bench will do nothing for any of their other players...

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Fair.

Methot does talk a lot about the impact a guy like MacEwen (or Watson, Reaves, Deslauriers, etc) can have on a team though, in ways that go beyond analytics. And that is something that NHL Twitter knows way less about, and so quickly dismisses, as soon a player signs and JFresh posts one of his cards. So that's where his pushback comes from, and I tend to agree with him.

Unless you've played at a high-level, there are some things you don't know about. Many managers, who haven't played (like Dubas or Brisebois), learn those things by being around a team for years. But most fans, even the very opinionated ones on Twitter (like Luszyszyn or Wheeler) don't get that chance to be around a team. And yet they're the first ones to say that a guy like Reaves will have zero impact on the Leafs and having him on the bench will do nothing for any of their other players...

Agreed. There are a lot of things analytics don't capture. And the impact on a game or even a small part of a game players like that can have in changing the tone or the confidence of players around them or momentum.. If you want to physically dominate a team and be relentless shift after shift line after line .. there is none of that on those player cards on how those players can add to that. There is a place but evaluating the impact of these players isn't there.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Grant says the Sens wanted him in 2017. My memory fails me again. Definitely seems like that scenario has occurred often

 

[Rodzilla]

Nvm

 

[Liver King]

Welcome Zack! Big and Physical, 26, I like it!

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Dorion backed himself into a corner cap wise, so this is the kind of player and contract we're stuck with to fill out the roster.

Bottom six is going to be ugly.

Oh well....hopefully the cap will skyrocket, and Sandy takes a really team friendly deal, and the new owners spend to the cap, and all the kids improve dramatically, and all the summer signings work out. If not, we're in trouble for the next five years.

 

[aragorn]

Agreed. There are a lot of things analytics don't capture. And the impact on a game or even a small part of a game players like that can have in changing the tone or the confidence of players around them or momentum.. If you want to physically dominate a team and be relentless shift after shift line after line .. there is none of that on those player cards on how those players can add to that. There is a place but evaluating the impact of these players isn't there.

Every X-NHLer I've talked to & we have a few connected to the family all say the same thing, as long as fighting is allowed in the NHL you have to have a guy who will defend the team's stars & teammates. If you don't have someone who will defend teammates other teams & players will take advantage & try & push that team around & target their stars.

They always go after the weakest link & move from one to the next until someone tries to stop them & does something about it. Guys who are targeted & not protected will play scared & give up the puck, guys who know someone has their back play bigger. It's just a fact that guys who have played at high levels all know this & believe it, unfortunately casual fans may never get it. EK thanked Neil for protecting him, lots of X-NHL players have mentioned this, it's not new info. Look what Tom Wilson did to Panarin & the Rangers a few yrs ago & they had no response, they were crucified for it. I think the NYR went out & got Reaves after that.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Dorion backed himself into a corner cap wise, so this is the kind of player and contract we're stuck with to fill out the roster.

Bottom six is going to be ugly.

Oh well....hopefully the cap will skyrocket, and Sandy takes a really team friendly deal, and the new owners spend to the cap, and all the kids improve dramatically, and all the summer signings work out. If not, we're in trouble for the next five years.

Is it?

It was bad last year in large part because we lost Norris for an entire season. Now, there'll probably be injuries again, but hopefully not a season-ending one to a top 6 player.

The key isn't adding more expensive players to the bottom 6. It's spreading out the talent more effectively. Let's assume the NHL player we acquire for DBC is Berggren.

Icing this:

Tkachuk - Stützle - Joseph
Greig - Norris - Giroux
Berggren - Pinto - Batherson
Smejkal/Crookshank/Kelly - Kastelic - MacEwen

Is not that bad. You have good duos on each of the top 3 lines, who should be able to drive play and contribute.

Are Joseph and Greig (or Berggren if you move him up) top 6 players on their own? No. But a team's "top 6" is never just made up of "top 6 players". The bolded are staples and should make up 90% of icetime. The rest you move around.

Florida had Nick Cousins playing with Tkachuk and Bennett in the playoffs.
Vegas had Brett Howden with Stone and Stephenson.

Spread the wealth. That's how you improve the bottom 6.

 

[Lucky Luke]

MacEwen is a better hockey player than most people give him credit for.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Is it?

It was bad last year in large part because we lost Norris for an entire season. Now, there'll probably be injuries again, but hopefully not a season-ending one to a top 6 player.

The key isn't adding more expensive players to the bottom 6. It's spreading out the talent more effectively. Let's assume the NHL player we acquire for DBC is Berggren.

Icing this:

Tkachuk - Stützle - Joseph
Greig - Norris - Giroux
Berggren - Pinto - Batherson
Smejkal/Crookshank/Kelly - Kastelic - MacEwen

Is not that bad. You have good duos on each of the top 3 lines, who should be able to drive play and contribute.

Are Joseph and Greig (or Berggren if you move him up) top 6 players on their own? No. But a team's "top 6" is never just made up of "top 6 players".

Florida had Nick Cousins playing with Tkachuk and Bennett in the playoffs.
Vegas had Brett Howden with Stone and Stephenson.

Spread the wealth. That's how you improve the bottom 6.

We could do that, but I'm not all that convinced it will work out all that well. If it does work with Joseph and we can pad his stats a bit, I would take the opportunity to try and move his contract afterwards.

 

[DaveMatthew]

We could do that, but I'm not all that convinced it will work out all that well. If it does work with Joseph and we can pad his stats a bit, I would take the opportunity to try and move his contract afterwards.

Why not? That's how most teams do it.

The Leafs played Bunting (a no name prior to 2021) with Matthews and Marner after signing him for 900k.
The Hurricans had Noesen playing with Aho for stretches last season.

Tkachuk and Stützle should be 85+ point players next year. Stützle potentially 95+. They should be able to carry a third wheel on line 1.

Same with Norris and Giroux on line 2. They're two 70+ point players.

And if you can push Pinto-Batherson to line 3? All of a sudden line 3 becomes a talent advantage in a lot of matchups.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Why not? That's how most teams do it.

The Leafs played Bunting (a no name prior to 2021) with Matthews and Marner after signing him for 900k.
The Hurricans had Noesen playing with Aho for stretches last season.

Tkachuk and Stützle should be 85+ point players next year. Stützle potentially 95+. They should be able to carry a third wheel on line 1.

Same with Norris and Giroux on line 2. They're two 70+ point players.

And if you can push Pinto-Batherson to line 3? All of a sudden line 3 becomes a talent advantage in a lot of matchups.

Line 3 will be a problem. I don't see Pinto and Bath being the ones to really drive a line. Giroux can. Timmy can. Brady can.

The real problem here is we're stuck in no mans land and right up against the cap. It's going to be very difficult to try and work our way up without that financial wiggle room to improve.

 

[Icelevel]

MacEwen is a better hockey player than most people give him credit for.

If you read the comments by LA fans they are happy he’s gone and say he’s the worst player they’ve ever seen.
I guess we’ll see for ourselves soon enough.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Line 3 will be a problem. I don't see Pinto and Bath being the ones to really drive a line. Giroux can. Timmy can. Brady can.

The real problem here is we're stuck in no mans land and right up against the cap. It's going to be very difficult to try and work our way up without that financial wiggle room to improve.

Batherson, prior to his injury in '21, was arguably better than both Tkachuk and Norris on that line. He was a PPG player through 46 games. Last year he was recovering from the ankle injury (plus the HC scandal in the summer), but I don't see why he can't return back to being a line driver after a full summer of training.

Pinto just scored 20 goals in his first pro season a year removed from missing an entire season. Prior to playing 82 games last year, his previous high in a season was 33. I'd have to think that he'll come back this year with better conditioning.

And as soon as DBC is moved, cap concerns essentially go away for next year (especially if you get Berggren back who makes just 925k).

Then the season after the cap will go up significantly + a lot of dead space frees up.

If we had kept DBC for $8-8.5M we would've been in tight shape. But without him? There'll be quite a bit of flexibility.

Keep in mind that the realistic goal for next year is to make the playoffs. Not win the cup. So compare our roster to Pittsburgh, Buffalo, NYI, etc. Not Vegas.

 

[aragorn]

If you read the comments by LA fans they are happy he’s gone and say he’s the worst player they’ve ever seen.
I guess we’ll see for ourselves soon enough.

He's a 4th line player & an enforcer who might get 6 to 10 min when he plays & I doubt it will be in all 82 games. Some fans don't seem to understand roles on teams & what kind of mins those roles require.

For some reason casual fans expect some of these role players to also produce pts & be more like top 9 players which they are not unless they are Tom Wilson or Lawson Crouse. We just need him to get guys off the ice that are targeting our best players & not hurt the team & he will be successful at his job. If he gets any pts it will be a bonus. lol

 

[DueDiligence]

Line 3 will be a problem. I don't see Pinto and Bath being the ones to really drive a line. Giroux can. Timmy can. Brady can.

The real problem here is we're stuck in no mans land and right up against the cap. It's going to be very difficult to try and work our way up without that financial wiggle room to improve.

You really think that Batherson paired with a now "seasoned" Pinto will be a problem? What you are forgetting is that if DBC is gone the Sens will have $4-$4.5 million to spend on another winger to add to them. Maybe a guy like Tatar or Suter

 

[God Says No]

Yeah, not real happy with this signing. Fighting should be banned from hockey. I'm hoping he plays like 10 times a year when we play Toranta and such.

 

[DJB]

Interestingly of his 18 NHL fights 4 have been against Ottawa and 2 against Brady

He’s also listed as sub 200 pounds so not exactly a heavyweight and why he seems to get pounded a lot

Reaves is going to eat him alive lol

Hopefully he’s just a 13th forward type who plays whenever the other team has a goon

 

[DaveMatthew]

Interestingly of his 18 NHL fights 4 have been against Ottawa and 2 against Brady

He’s also listed as sub 200 pounds so not exactly a heavyweight and why he seems to get pounded a lot

Reaves is going to eat him alive lol

Hopefully he’s just a 13th forward type who plays whenever the other team has a goon

He's likely the Watson replacement, minus the penalty killing. Skate hard, forecheck and hit some guys in 7-8 minutes a night, while being likeable. Take on any middleweights. At 5 years younger and half the cost, he should be fine to do that.

Hopefully pushes Kelly out of the lineup, which would be a positive. At least MacEwen has size.

Imama is probably the guy they call up if there's a true heavyweight like Reaves in a lineup and they expect it to get spicy.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Oh boy. Laughed at and mocked around the league. Let’s goooo!

Hague is 6'3" and 230#. It wasn't like he was getting worked by some light weight. McEwan ain't my ideal signing, but I see his usefulness.

 

[HSF]

bad signing

 

[bert]

This might be the worst signing of the offseason. On what planet should a fighter ever get 3 years? Can't wait for Pierre to get the boot when new ownership takes over.

He makes the league minimum haha. Worst signing ffs. I hate Pierre but are you serious?... To get the AAV down he had to give him term. He has great wheels too I like it.

 

[bert]

MacEwen is a better hockey player than most people give him credit for.

Much better you can tell most commenting never watched him. He is a terrific skater, finishes all his checks, has a great motor.

 

[DrEasy]

Looks like we've cornered the market on 13th forwards; the new market inefficiency!

Looking at the highlights, dude fights like Rocky Balboa. That's not a compliment!

In the big picture, there's nothing wrong with this deal. No impact on our cap. Could even get a late-round pick for him at some point if we wanted to. If Josh Brown can fetch you a pick, anybody at this low a salary can.

 

[Icelevel]

Much better you can tell most commenting never watched him. He is a terrific skater, finishes all his checks, has a great motor.

This is his 4th team in five years.