Zach "the awesome player" Hyman

[Rogie]

I have come to a realization. Hyman is Kilger.

Except Kilger didn’t play with Sundin.

Interesting comparison indeed - Kilger played a long time, hmmm, don't remember Kilger's game - was he a bottom 6 player back then?

edit: I shoudl remember him, but, I"m struggling.

 

[93LEAFS]

I have come to a realization. Hyman is Kilger.

Except Kilger didn’t play with Sundin.

I don't really see it. Kilger was incredibly talented with a 10c brain. Basically Virtanen of his era. If you gave Hyman Kilger's shot, he'd score 35 goals.

I'm glad Hyman is proving his atrocious shooting percentage at ES last year is likely a fluke and he can actually finish on things that aren't shorthanded breakaways. Now, he's still frustrating at times with Matthews, but he's doing well in this role starting to finish some plays.

I actually think Hyman is a decently smart hockey player (which is a big difference from Kilger). He knows his limitations (he doesn't have great vision, creative or have a great shot) so he skates hard and makes the simplest passes. It works for him and will carve him out an NHL career. I think he has some similarities to someone like Alex Killhorn.

 

[glucker]

Mid-40s pace with no PP time is very close to 1st line numbers. 18 ESP puts Hyman at 75th in the NHL right now among ALL players. He's currently tied with Toews and Marleau, and ahead of Bergeron, Perry, O'Reilly, Zetterberg, H Sedin, N Backstrom, Forsberg, Crosby etc in EVEN STRENGTH PRODUCTION.

Weird, the report I pulled for forwards only had him at 85.

When you look at his esp/60, he’s outside of the top-100 for forwards, accounting for guys who haven’t played many games yet.

 

[IBeL34f]

It's almost like not every player is a directly-out-of-the-box NHL-superstar.

How spoiled people were with Matthews, Nylander and Marner last year that they forgot what player development actually looks like.

Hyman's shown steady offensive development at every level he's played, and it looks like that's continuing in the NHL.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Mid-40s pace with no PP time is very close to 1st line numbers. 18 ESP puts Hyman at 75th in the NHL right now among ALL players. He's currently tied with Toews and Marleau, and ahead of Bergeron, Perry, O'Reilly, Zetterberg, H Sedin, N Backstrom, Forsberg, Crosby etc in EVEN STRENGTH PRODUCTION.

Weird, the report I pulled for forwards only had him at 85.

When you look at his esp/60, he’s outside of the top-100 for forwards, accounting for guys who haven’t played many games yet.

Hyman also plays a fair portion of his time on the PK, would be worth including his short-handed production. Which, last year at least would be relevant (4 shorties was it?). This year, he has one shorty so far. We're dealing with such small sample sizes so far when narrowing down to 5v5, you may as well include them.

That said, the point of this isn't to say that Hyman is as good as Toews, Zetterberg, Crosby, etc... The point is that he is doing just fine and him being on the first line is not a substantial issue on this team. If anything his presence on the first line, allowing more skilled players to play against weaker defenses (*cough* JvR, Bozak, Marner) is helping.

 

[bobermay]

Weird, the report I pulled for forwards only had him at 85.

When you look at his esp/60, he’s outside of the top-100 for forwards, accounting for guys who haven’t played many games yet.

18 ESP points would make you tied for 74th in the NHL among all NHLers.
17 ESP points would make you tied for 90th in the NHL...

ESP/60 isn't a horrible metric, but you should at least subset players that played 15+ games...
Also, Hyman obviously gets some of the toughest ES minutes playing on our top line... Still, he's producing like the lower end 1st liner, top end 2nd liner at even strength...

 

[saltming]

To use one example to try and debunk that ANYONE would be benefit from playing with Matthews is asinine at best.

To not acknowledge what he does and summarily dismiss it to playing with Matthews is asinine

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Babcock constantly rotates Nylander/Brown/Marner the RWs as the weakest links of the trio, but how come you don't seem to believe they're at fault?

Logically, the Leafs want to show a good return on investment in the Gregg McKegg trade by stapling Hyman to the top line, regardless of his performance.

 

[saltming]

Don't know if using this 1 example to prove Hyman's not benefiting from playing with Matthews is a hotter take than Trump today essentially saying climate change/global warming is fake because it will be the coldest NYE on record

Honestly Hyman has looked to be more offensively skilled when playing away from Matthews (SH, Hyman-Marleau-Brown line) than when he's playing with Matthews.

To be fair any player in the game would benefit from playing with Matthews. The point is Hyman does his job and works his ass off dispite who his line mates are

 

[Mess]

Hyman with a beauty of SH goal to kick the Leafs offense off.

 

[hotpaws]

I don't really see it. Kilger was incredibly talented with a 10c brain. Basically Virtanen of his era. If you gave Hyman Kilger's shot, he'd score 35 goals.

I'm glad Hyman is proving his atrocious shooting percentage at ES last year is likely a fluke and he can actually finish on things that aren't shorthanded breakaways. Now, he's still frustrating at times with Matthews, but he's doing well in this role starting to finish some plays.

I actually think Hyman is a decently smart hockey player (which is a big difference from Kilger). He knows his limitations (he doesn't have great vision, creative or have a great shot) so he skates hard and makes the simplest passes. It works for him and will carve him out an NHL career. I think he has some similarities to someone like Alex Killhorn.

Yup , Kilger had all the tools and great size to boot and that`s why he went top 5 in his draft .

however Hyman still isn`t finishing any better than last year at even strength , he still hasn`t scored a goal that wasn`t a tip , a puck that bounced off him or simply him wacking at the puck around the crease

 

[bobermay]

IIRC, Kilger and Hyman are nothing alike... Wasn't Kilger a bad skater? He also had the heavier shot...

 

[93LEAFS]

Yup , Kilger had all the tools and great size to boot and that`s why he went top 5 in his draft .

however Hyman still isn`t finishing any better than last year at even strength , he still hasn`t scored a goal that wasn`t a tip , a puck that bounced off him or simply him wacking at the puck around the crease

Last year he shot 4.48% at 5v5, this year he's shooting 9.23%. Last year he had an individual xGF of 15.05 at 5v5 and finished with 6 goals. This year, he has an ixGF of 9.05 and has 6 goals at 5v5.

While far from being Brett Hull, I'd say that is a sizable improvement in conversion rates.

 

[The Kessel Run]

That line is getting back into a groove. Hyman keeps doing his thing. I'd say the biggest difference in the line's success is Nylander's commitment to both ends of the ice the past month.

 

[Ratboy]

To not acknowledge what he does and summarily dismiss it to playing with Matthews is asinine

I got an ass and it's mine.

 

[saltming]

I got an ass and it's mine.

That should be a rap song


It better yet a Zach Hyman book

 

[93LEAFS]

IIRC, Kilger and Hyman are nothing alike... Wasn't Kilger a bad skater? He also had the heavier shot...

Kilger at Hyman's age was a very good skater. Basically what Virtanen is.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Yup , Kilger had all the tools and great size to boot and that`s why he went top 5 in his draft .

however Hyman still isn`t finishing any better than last year at even strength , he still hasn`t scored a goal that wasn`t a tip , a puck that bounced off him or simply him wacking at the puck around the crease

Thankfully, every goal is counted the same, and that's why Johan Franzen and Dino Ciccarelli are as praised as they are.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Last year he shot 4.48% at 5v5, this year he's shooting 9.23%. Last year he had an individual xGF of 15.05 at 5v5 and finished with 6 goals. This year, he has an ixGF of 9.05 and has 6 goals at 5v5.

While far from being Brett Hull, I'd say that is a sizable improvement in conversion rates.

Thank you for pointing that out. Always found it interesting that it was somehow used against him, when the same posters used the same stats to argue that others, like Nylander, would see an improvement.

 

[93LEAFS]

Thank you for pointing that out. Always found it interesting that it was somehow used against him, when the same posters used the same stats to argue that others, like Nylander, would see an improvement.

The issue with was Hyman , he didn't really have prior history to support improved conversions. He may have been just a 4th liner who is inept. He also didn't really have skills to directly point to like Willy. If he can stay converting at those rates he can play in the top 9 long-term. I'm glad Hyman is now converting and reducing the animosity towards him.

 

[Nithoniniel]

The issue with was Hyman , he didn't really have prior history to support improved conversions. He may have been just a 4th liner who is inept. He also didn't really have skills to directly point to like Willy. If he can stay converting at those rates he can play in the top 9 long-term. I'm glad Hyman is now converting and reducing the animosity towards him.

Not at the NHL level, no, but he had a history of some pretty high shooting percentages in other leagues. The extent to which that has some weight on the NHL level can be discussed.

That shooting percentage given the average quality of chance he got was also rather extreme. It's lower than the career average of guys like Colton Orr. His true talent level was bound to be higher than that, even without a prior history.

 

[diceman934]

Yup , Kilger had all the tools and great size to boot and that`s why he went top 5 in his draft .

however Hyman still isn`t finishing any better than last year at even strength , he still hasn`t scored a goal that wasn`t a tip , a puck that bounced off him or simply him wacking at the puck around the crease

He is scoring more 5on5 then he was last year and he has scored some nice goals with a good deke as wel as top corner shot last night.

Hyman is not hurting Mathews game in anyway.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

The issue with was Hyman , he didn't really have prior history to support improved conversions. He may have been just a 4th liner who is inept.

It was repeatedly brought up in those threads that Hyman always had average-to-above-average Sh% in all leagues he previously played in. He never had prior history to support low conversions. He was a top-9 player having an unusually unlucky year on the scoring front.

For most, the conversation didn't even get that deep. It's hard enough to get people to appreciate the effect that no PP time has on his point totals. Many would even go to lengths to use no PP time as a reason not to have him on the top line. It was (and probably still is, if I clear my ignore list) very grim.

 

[saltming]

It was repeatedly brought up in those threads that Hyman always had average-to-above-average Sh% in all leagues he previously played in. He never had prior history to support low conversions. He was a top-9 player having an unusually unlucky year on the scoring front.

For most, the conversation didn't even get that deep. It's hard enough to get people to appreciate the effect that no PP time has on his point totals. Many would even go to lengths to use no PP time as a reason not to have him on the top line. It was (and probably still is, if I clear my ignore list) very grim.

Confirmation bias is a real thing. Everyone has it to some degree. That's one of the uses of stats, to help be more impartial. If you're willing to admit you might be wrong

 

[Rogie]

Hyman with a beauty of SH goal to kick the Leafs offense off.

PLUS, he played the first shift of that PK and worked his butt off, then, he comes out for his 2nd shift, AND, STILL, he pulls away from whoever that Dman was that lost thpuck!!!!

EDIT: it wasn't OEL was it???