Your thoughts: Paul Stastny to Toronto?

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Well, it's legal here in Colorado now, you know.

Let's look at a Stastny-Franson swap. What would you put around it to make it work?

I believe Stastny for Franson + 3rd round pick is a reasonable place for a discussion to start. And we'll also assume that Stastny would agree to an extension in order for Toronto to do the deal.

What say you?

Tough one considering Franson's play last season (him being top 10 in ES, PP points, hits among dmen). Would depend on Stastny's cap hit figure

 

[Kbs]

An entirely fair response, IMO. It may not make sense for the two teams to deal in that case. I don't mind a number of forwards on your team, but Colorado simply isn't desperate for forwards like they are for a defenseman who can actually defend. Quite a concept, I know - but Colorado needs one (or three) really badly.



But are we in the right value ballpark, in terms of a reasonable exchange of assets?

In terms of just player value, I'd probably do it. It really just comes down to the fact that the Leafs really lack defensemen who play the right side. We picked up O'Byrne from you guys because we needed depth on the right side.

So, if Nonis picks up a right-handed defensemen from somewhere, I wouldn't be against the deal. Who knows though, maybe Nonis values Stastny way more than me and he'd be more than willing to do that deal without a replacement for Franson (I don't think that's the case though).

I'm also one of the few Leafs fans who thinks the #1 centre role isn't that big of an issue. I'd be fine with a defensively responsible, #2 centre.

 

[Mess]

Do you think any other team will pay Bozak 1st line centre money? I guess if even one team would pay him that kind of money, that sets his value.

Unfortunately there is no shortage of desperate NHL GM's willing to hand out dumb and soon regrettable contracts that step up to the plate to do so.

We have to have a lockout every 7 years so Bettman can insulate and protect the owners from their own employees the GMs while they blame the players, for escalating salaries.

I think Nonis should let Bozak test the market at the prices he wants and see what happens.. If he finds a sucker to give him $5 mil then good for him and good for the Leafs for not having to deal with that problem, as it will be someone else's headache soon enough.

Stastny is an upgrade in Bozak in both skill and ability and if you're going to invest the $$ in a top line player, then this would be the better option for the Leafs.

 

[nuck]

Has anyone ruled out a Grabo / Stastny player swap? The leafs would retain some of the salary because of Grabo contract length. If Bozak gets signed for 4mil then we have

Stastny
Kadri
Bozak
Colburne

as our forwards. If Bozak walks then Colburne goes to 3rd line.


edit: side note, anyone who puts Rielly in next years lineup needs to ****. Not saying he played poorly with the Marlies, but he didn't play like a NHL'er either. He will not be ready next year and I wish there was a way to put him in the AHL.

Stastny would make a better winger than Grabo, and thats what the Avs need. Also after his decline of the last couple seasons, I can't see Stastny asking more than $5.5 to resign in Colorado. There is nothing for them in a Grabovski deal.

As for Colburne, he has not show anything resembling NHL type offense since the short cup of coffee before his injury. He may well get tried at the 3rd line but it would be suicide to write him into the spot and have him be completely unable to score.

 

[FifthLine]

An entirely fair response, IMO. It may not make sense for the two teams to deal in that case. I don't mind a number of forwards on your team, but Colorado simply isn't desperate for forwards like they are for a defenseman who can actually defend. Quite a concept, I know - but Colorado needs one (or three) really badly.



But are we in the right value ballpark, in terms of a reasonable exchange of assets?

What about:

Gunnar (With Extention)
Frattin

for

Stastny + 3rd?

 

[nuck]

Think Stastny would be a great 2C, but he is simply not the dominant 1C that will define a franchise. Sure he would be a great short term player, but not the future of this team. If we get a discount price price, I wouldn't be opposed, otherwise, pass.

If they wait for that player, they will have to drop to the bottom 5 in the standings and draft him. That fact that Stastny was an 80pt guy not that long ago, and could be again, suggests an exciting 1-2 punch with Kadri. The Leafs stars will be their wingers. The Bruins won the cup with 62 point Krejci and 57 point Bergeron. It can be done.

The alternative is Boz, Grabo, or Weiss and none of these guys will ever touch 70 points, never mind being a dominant C.

 

[Hero]

Would love him, I think it's a buy low oppertunity.

 

[Stephen]

Is it just me, or do you guys find Avalanche fans to be some of the most arrogant, under-educated fans out there? The things they ask for in exchange for their not so great players is shocking.

 

[Pinto]

Is it just me, or do you guys find Avalanche fans to be some of the most arrogant, under-educated fans out there? The things they ask for in exchange for their not so great players is shocking.

LA fans are making a good case for that right now.

 

[garyjones93]

Is it just me, or do you guys find Avalanche fans to be some of the most arrogant, under-educated fans out there? The things they ask for in exchange for their not so great players is shocking.

Well I have one friend that is an avs fan, and he is difficult to talk to about the teams/trades/players.

 

[Anth93]

Is it just me, or do you guys find Avalanche fans to be some of the most arrogant, under-educated fans out there? The things they ask for in exchange for their not so great players is shocking.

Yep. The majority of course, not all.

I bite my tongue while reading most of their opinions.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Is it just me, or do you guys find Avalanche fans to be some of the most arrogant, under-educated fans out there? The things they ask for in exchange for their not so great players is shocking.

Yeah, noticed this as well. A lot like Canucks fans and the ridiculous price tag they had for Luo

 

[Stephen]

Yep. The majority of course, not all.

I bite my tongue while reading most of their opinions.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1451521

Nuff said.

It's like these guys aren't getting enough oxygen or something. Still walking around with championship swagger while supporting an Oilers level franchise.

 

[Drij]

Is it just me, or do you guys find Avalanche fans to be some of the most arrogant, under-educated fans out there? The things they ask for in exchange for their not so great players is shocking.

Leafs fan are no different.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Bergeron did score a lot at even strength, but he gets to play with Marchand and Seguin, both of who outscored him.

Bergeron enables the two to produce in an offensive role. During the playoffs, Bergeron is an essential producer. He is the main reason why Boston is so competitive. We need to be fielding a team that can contend for the cup.

Another major factor is Colorado's defense - they are a joke, especially when it comes to moving the puck up ice. This is even more a detriment when a player is starting the majority of his shifts in his own zone.

True. Their transition game is hopeless.

What makes you say that? Stastny is the kind of player who finds a way to be effective, even when he's not producing. He does all the little things well. Good on face-offs, good defensively, goes to the net, works the corners, etc. The fact that he has the skill and creativity to put up 70-80 points is all a bonus. That's exactly why I want him to play with Kessel.

Yes, he is involved, but his foot speed is a major concern. In addition, he's not really a two-way play either. We really need an effective shut down line and a good depth scoring line to keep pressure off our first line. During the playoffs, we used MacArthur - Grabovski - Kulemin to limit pressure on the Kessel line. This season, we'll have to be develop Kadri into a player who can produce against top lines.

JVR/Lupul - Stastny - Kessel ( Top line)
Lupul/JVR - Kadri - Clarkson? ( Shut down line)
Kulemin - Grabovski/Colborne - Frattin/ Colborne ( Sheltered scoring line)
X - McClement - X

I think a big depth scoring line would be able to hammer weaker lines and would supplement the shut down line. That would look pretty darn legitimate if we can keep it under the cap.

 

[Dreakmur]

Bergeron enables the two to produce in an offensive role. During the playoffs, Bergeron is an essential producer. He is the main reason why Boston is so competitive. We need to be fielding a team that can contend for the cup.

That's all good stuff on Bergeron, but it has nothing to do with Stastny.

Simple fact is that Bergeron has been put in a position to succeed, and he has. Stastny has not been put in that position.

Yes, he is involved, but his foot speed is a major concern. In addition, he's not really a two-way play either.

There is nothing concerning about his skating. He has, at worst, average speed. He also has good quickness and great balance.

He definitely is a two-way player. Put him on a good team, in a big market, and he gets Selke votes.

We really need an effective shut down line

Jay McClement and Nikolai Kulemin is a damn good start to a shut-down line.

Lupul/JVR - Kadri - Clarkson? ( Shut down line)

Is that a joke?

 

[The_Chosen_One]

That's all good stuff on Bergeron, but it has nothing to do with Stastny.

Simple fact is that Bergeron has been put in a position to succeed, and he has. Stastny has not been put in that position.

Bergeron has been amongst the best producers in the playoffs. I don't care much about the regular season considering that we produce quite well. It's about the GA as well. Bergeron shuts down top lines.

He definitely is a two-way player. Put him on a good team, in a big market, and he gets Selke votes.

He did a pretty bad job shutting down top lines in Colorado. Duchene, on the other hand, is a lot better, and will probably be utilized a lot like Peter Forsberg.

Jay McClement and Nikolai Kulemin is a damn good start to a shut-down line.

I don't think so. We've been using MacArthur - Grabovski - Kulemin in that role. The latter two saw their goal production plummet and will be used more offensively. If we move Mikhail, we're going to see Kadri used. I don't even remember McClement producing offensively against the top lines, but the Grabs line has.

Is that a joke?

As a depth scoring line. It would do the job. We need to consider the cap.

 

[Dreakmur]

Bergeron has been amongst the best producers in the playoffs. I don't care much about the regular season considering that we produce quite well. It's about the GA as well. Bergeron shuts down top lines.

Again, great stuff about Bergeron.

He did a pretty bad job shutting down top lines in Colorado. Duchene, on the other hand, is a lot better, and will probably be utilized a lot like Peter Forsberg.

Shutting down the opponent is a 6-man job.

Duchene is a better player, but isn't better defensively.

I don't think so. We've been using MacArthur - Grabovski - Kulemin in that role. The latter two saw their goal production plummet and will be used more offensively. If we move Mikhail, we're going to see Kadri used. I don't even remember McClement producing offensively against the top lines, but the Grabs line has.

Since when does a shut-down unit have to produce offense? Their job is to slow the other teams' offense down.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Shutting down the opponent is a 6-man job.

It is, but the forward side plays a bigger role

Duchene is a better player, but isn't better defensively.

Go ask Avalanche fans that. If they make it to the playoffs, he's going to be that guy that produces against Getzlaf/ Kopitar lines. That is certainly better defensively.

Since when does a shut-down unit have to produce offense? Their job is to slow the other teams' offense down.

Since Forsberg or even before that with Fedorov? Those type of two way guys that can produce against the Crosby are the ones that end up winning playoff games. We saw that with Zetterberg on Detroit, Sharp/ Toews/ Hossa on Chicago, Carter/ Richards on LA, and what not.

Chris Kelly, despite being a defensive specialist ( like McClement) was usually battling with Kadri's line. It was Bergeron up against Kessel's line while Grabs was up against Krecji. Their top scoring line was producing against Grabs because Randy utilized that line as a shut down line.

 

[Dreakmur]

It is, but the forward side plays a bigger role

In shutting down opposing forwards?

Go ask Avalanche fans that. If they make it to the playoffs, he's going to be that guy that produces against Getzlaf/ Kopitar lines. That is certainly better defensively.

Since Forsberg or even before that with Fedorov? Those type of two way guys that can produce against the Crosby are the ones that end up winning playoff games. We saw that with Zetterberg on Detroit, Sharp/ Toews/ Hossa on Chicago, Carter/ Richards on LA, and what not.

Chris Kelly, despite being a defensive specialist ( like McClement) was usually battling with Kadri's line. It was Bergeron up against Kessel's line while Grabs was up against Krecji. Their top scoring line was producing against Grabs because Randy utilized that line as a shut down line.

Being good defensively has nothing to do with offensive production. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It is, but the forward side plays a bigger role

Go ask Avalanche fans that. If they make it to the playoffs, he's going to be that guy that produces against Getzlaf/ Kopitar lines. That is certainly better defensively.

Since Forsberg or even before that with Fedorov? Those type of two way guys that can produce against the Crosby are the ones that end up winning playoff games. We saw that with Zetterberg on Detroit, Sharp/ Toews/ Hossa on Chicago, Carter/ Richards on LA, and what not.

Chris Kelly, despite being a defensive specialist ( like McClement) was usually battling with Kadri's line. It was Bergeron up against Kessel's line while Grabs was up against Krecji. Their top scoring line was producing against Grabs because Randy utilized that line as a shut down line.

Avalanche fan here. Stastny is most certainly better then Duchene defensively. Easily Stastny's most underrated part of his game. He's a solid guy at both ends of the ice.

Duchene isn't bad either and has improved a lot, but his Defense isn't on Stas's level yet.



Anyway, also just wanted to say that yea some of the Avs fans are definitely overvaluing Stastny right now. He wouldn't bring back a player of Gardiner's level after the last few years he has had and his soon to be UFA status.


But, its also a 2 way street. There are some Leafs fans who also severely undervalue him.

Is it just me, or do you guys find Avalanche fans to be some of the most arrogant, under-educated fans out there? The things they ask for in exchange for their not so great players is shocking.

Its a 2-way street. Us Avs fans feel the same way towards some of you Leafs fans as well.

Were all obviously passionate fans about our respective teams and sometimes can find ourselves holding crazy opinions without even realizing it.

 

[Diatomic]

Get Stastny for a 4th rounder when his contracts up. Apparently his value right now is as high as someone like Jake Gardiner

 

[FifthLine]

I'm telling you, if we get Stastny, and you want a True, "Twoway, shutdown line" Role this as the 2nd line:

JVR - Stastny - Kulemin

It would be our version of the Bergeron line and Hossa line.

 

[Morning Dart]

If we can get him on a flyer, sure. If we have to sell the farm, then no. Some people seem to forget that the window isn't even open on this team yet, there's no need to go slamming it shut by trading away pieces for guys who may or may not be difference makers by the time this team is ready to win a Cup.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

In shutting down opposing forwards?

Yes, their top producers. It's a lot easier limiting production of your opponents than outscoring them.

Being good defensively has nothing to do with offensive production. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

You have to compromise. Two way players can be utilized offensively AND defensively. The advantage of that is that you can neutralize the top lines, possibly produce against them and establish an advantage in line matching.

Shut down players are two-way who produce against top lines. On the other hand, traditional checking lines are more defensively oriented (i.e. Suter line in Pittsburgh). It became clear that it was ineffective once Crosby/ Malkin were shut down. If Crosby/ Malkin ( as in the past) were tasked to shut down top lines, they would significantly reduce their goals forfeited.