Would You Trade Scheifele or Laine for a top dman?

[Psych0dad]

I know some people hate the 'bromance' but painting it as an 'obvious' disaster/mismatch is a bit of a spin.

The numbers don't lie. Yeah, he had 90pt seasons and with someone else he could have had 100+ pt seasons. The point success doesn't make it any less true that Scheifeles GF60 is 2.8 with Wheeler and 4.0 with others. Quite the disparity.

And yes the bromance has been a disaster. Never was behind it, and for a good reason. As number show.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Turnovers by our talented forwards is the number one reason we are floundering at some important metrics right now.

I've been saying this all along - we bemoan our D corps, BUT if these players played better defensively, our team defense stats would improve astronomically. It's always easy to blame the defense for defensive issues, but it truly is a team attribute.

Laine is only one of our forwards who needs to get much better in this area. Ehlers has gotten better mainly on the back of his possession skills. Roslovic might be the worst, but Connor is right there, along with Laine. Schiefele and Wheeler have room for improvement in this regard as well.

I don't even want to mention Luoto and Shaw, as I don't believe they really bring enough to be on the team at all. I thing Gus is doing pretty well considering his experience and who he's on the ice with, but of course he has a lot to learn.

Really, Little, Copp, and Lowry are the only forwards we have who consistently play a good game on the other side of the puck, and even they could be better (I guess everyone could).

Of course, this has been an issue since hockey was first played. Offensively talented players usually have holes in their games, as their offensive success depends on a certain amount of bias and decision making based on higher defensive risk at the benefit of increased offensive chances.

I wish defensemen had never been given that name. Hockey has forwards and backs. Both contribute to both offense and defense. Not equally of course, but it would probably be better if both were closer to equal in their mindsets. Hockey is such a team game.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

This season is a write off. Just enjoy the ride. Fix the D next off season. We should have a new coach for 20-21 also.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

People are really selling Laine's defensive efforts short this season... If Maurice sees it the same way, Laine should just say **** it and go all out on offense.

Better he just says **** it, don't worry about what other people think. Just keep playing better and better until they finally see it.

 

[MelikeJets]

This season is a write off. Just enjoy the ride. Fix the D next off season. We should have a new coach for 20-21 also.

I used to think the same way but my mind always takes me back to what the Blues did and you never know what can happen.....just get in the playoffs

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Forgot Makar. Not sure I'd put McAvoy on that list though.

McAvoy and Chabot are a notch below, with Jones, or maybe just a tick below him too.

 

[AWSAA]

Agreed. No one in their right mind would trade Scheifele with his current contract.

That next contract though. It may be even worse than Wheeler's.
Can't say I'm comfortable giving Mark 10+ mill long-term through his thirties unless we're among the top contenders, he finds another level.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Overstating a little bit I think. 52-20-10 and 114 pts in 2018. 47-30-5 for 99 pts in 2019. Back-to-back 91 pt seasons for Wheeler, 60 and 84 pt seasons for Scheif (22 games lost to injury in 2017-2018). Career highs for both players.

I know some people hate the 'bromance' but painting it as an 'obvious' disaster/mismatch is a bit of a spin.

I think Scheifele could have done better without Wheeler. Not sure Wheeler would have done as well without Scheifele but so much of his production came on the PP it might not have made much difference.

 

[Tommigun]

This season is a write off. Just enjoy the ride. Fix the D next off season. We should have a new coach for 20-21 also.

One point off second in central. Write off season? New coach? Maurice will win coach of the year I tell you.

 

[Jet]

One point off second in central. Write off season? New coach? Maurice will win coach of the year I tell you.

This year is hardly a write off. Teams go through a lot to win the cup most times, this core is just continuing that journey.

Still a lot of hockey and decisions to be made, writing off a team that is in a playoff spot at US Thanksgiving is a bit dramatic.

 

[Sjtv]

and 1 person who has never made a single post on all of hf boards

I havent made any post because my english is just bad. Still i have read this Jets Forum many years and did make account just to take part different votings. Oh, and now i have made one post.

 

[Psych0dad]

I think Scheifele could have done better without Wheeler. Not sure Wheeler would have done as well without Scheifele but so much of his production came on the PP it might not have made much difference.

Imagine how much Jets could have saved in Wheeler extension, if his numbers were not propped by usage? Chances are, Laine could have signed a long time contract if he was playing in 1st.

Spilled milk, but it stinks.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Imagine how much Jets could have saved in Wheeler extension, if his numbers were not propped by usage? Chances are, Laine could have signed a long time contract if he was playing in 1st.

Spilled milk, but it stinks.

I think Wheelers PP production + captaining would have got him close to the same anyway.

Laine may end up a better player due to usage - as long as Mau doesn't overplay his hand. Right now, it looks like Laine is responding well to the coaching.

I hate to think his sh% problem could be anything so simple but I wish he would go back to using the same stick he was using 2 years ago (if he hasn't already).

 

[Duke749]

This season is a write off. Just enjoy the ride. Fix the D next off season. We should have a new coach for 20-21 also.

People have been saying this for almost two months. Where have you been?

 

[Positive]

The numbers don't lie. Yeah, he had 90pt seasons and with someone else he could have had 100+ pt seasons. The point success doesn't make it any less true that Scheifeles GF60 is 2.8 with Wheeler and 4.0 with others. Quite the disparity.

And yes the bromance has been a disaster. Never was behind it, and for a good reason. As number show.

Really? Even when they were tearing it up in 2017-2018 and went to the WCF, after posting the best regular season any Jets team has ever had, you never thought they played well together?

I find that hard to believe that people back then were bemoaning Scheifele and Wheeler's minutes. They performed well during the playoffs, Wheeler and Scheifele putting up a team-leading 21 and 20 pts during the run. Wheeler was only behind Kuznetsov in assists, and Scheifele's 14 goals only 1 behind Ovechkin, despite the Jets playing 7 less playoff games than the Capitals. Unfortunately, MAF put on a goaltending clinic for Vegas in that series.

I mean if you lookup 'Scheifele Wheeler videos' they look like they know what they're doing together. Seems to pass the eye-test pretty well.

scheifele wheeler - Bing video

 

[Psych0dad]

Really? Even when they were tearing it up in 2017-2018 and went to the WCF, after posting the best regular season any Jets team has ever had, you never thought they played well together?

I find that hard to believe that people back then were bemoaning Scheifele and Wheeler's minutes. They performed well during the playoffs, Wheeler and Scheifele putting up a team-leading 21 and 20 pts during the run. Wheeler was only behind Kuznetsov in assists, and Scheifele's 14 goals only 1 behind Ovechkin, despite the Jets playing 7 less playoff games than the Capitals. Unfortunately, MAF put on a goaltending clinic for Vegas in that series.

I mean if you lookup 'Scheifele Wheeler videos' they look like they know what they're doing together. Seems to pass the eye-test pretty well.

scheifele wheeler - Bing video

They put up a ton of EN points in those playoffs. That was the best stretch of their work together, but I still didn't see them being anywhere near as good together as Scheifele and Laine for example had been. And that same trend has continued once Maurice finally decided to give us that pair again. They are a better combo than 55-26 no question. Were then, are now.

Majority seemed to think 55-26 is great, I did not. Production numbers were showing it then and they still do, they were never one of the top lines in the league together. Mostly the extra production came from PP excellence that season. When 55 and 29 were together, they were the top line in the league for a stretch in 16-17. Now they aren't as dynamic, still better than 55 and 26, but they also don't have a puck hound like Perreault with them so it could be why they aren't doing as well as 3 years ago.

 

[Duke749]

They put up a ton of EN points in those playoffs. That was the best stretch of their work together, but I still didn't see them being anywhere near as good together as Scheifele and Laine for example had been. And that same trend has continued once Maurice finally decided to give us that pair again. They are a better combo than 55-26 no question. Were then, are now.

Majority seemed to think 55-26 is great, I did not. Production numbers were showing it then and they still do, they were never one of the top lines in the league together. Mostly the extra production came from PP excellence that season. When 55 and 29 were together, they were the top line in the league for a stretch in 16-17. Now they aren't as dynamic, still better than 55 and 26, but they also don't have a puck hound like Perreault with them so it could be why they aren't doing as well as 3 years ago.

Yes we get it. You hate Wheeler and love Laine.

 

[Psych0dad]

Yes we get it. You hate Wheeler and love Laine.

Neither is true, I don't really have such feelings for athletes. Just want to see what works best. Optimization is my game.

As the separation of 18 and 29 and 26/55. I among a lot of people said it will make the team better. It did. Could have told Maurice that 3 years ago when it started, but it took him this long to figure out and he stumbled on it by accident. I don't even hate him, just think he's outdated.

 

[DRW204]

17-18 Scheifele & Wheeler were quite good together, actually very good. 58.7 GF% (44 GF 31 GA)

18-19 Scheifele & Wheeler were barely holding water, Laine was abysmal at 5v5.

 

[DRW204]

Yes we get it. You hate Wheeler and love Laine.

if Laine put up back-to-back 91 pt years, we wouldn't hear the end of it i bet, regardless of what his underlying numbers look like. Wheeler puts it up, Scheifele PPG, and Jets put up 114 pts and apparently it's a disaster.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

One point off second in central. Write off season? New coach? Maurice will win coach of the year I tell you.

I may be right, or this may be a reverse jinx that is somehow working. Even if its the latter, I am still riding it all the way to the Presidents Trophy!

 

[untouchable21]

Laine is probably my favourite player on the team and HATE the idea of trading him, but the team’s centre depth is BRUTAL so that makes Scheifele more untouchable in my opinion.

The only defensemen that I consider trading Laine for are Dahlin, Heiskanen and Seth Jones (*contract status could be worrisome*)

Guys like Werenski, Makar, Chabot and McAvoy are all intriguing, but are a notch below the others in overall potential and accomplishments to date. They would require a significant plus to get me to consider it.

 

[scelaton]

Neither is true, I don't really have such feelings for athletes. Just want to see what works best. Optimization is my game.

As the separation of 18 and 29 and 26/55. I among a lot of people said it will make the team better. It did. Could have told Maurice that 3 years ago when it started, but it took him this long to figure out and he stumbled on it by accident. I don't even hate him, just think he's outdated.

You sure have a strange username for someone without feelings. Methinks thou doth protest too much, and have feelings for both Laine and Maurice

 

[Adam da bomb]

Laine is probably my favourite player on the team and HATE the idea of trading him, but the team’s centre depth is BRUTAL so that makes Scheifele more untouchable in my opinion.

The only defensemen that I consider trading Laine for are Dahlin, Heiskanen and Seth Jones (*contract status could be worrisome*)

Guys like Werenski, Makar, Chabot and McAvoy are all intriguing, but are a notch below the others in overall potential and accomplishments to date. They would require a significant plus to get me to consider it.

Makar has a lot of potential. Don’t know if he has less than Jones.

 

[Jet]

I havent made any post because my english is just bad. Still i have read this Jets Forum many years and did make account just to take part different votings. Oh, and now i have made one post.

Welcome! Don't let others discourage you from posting