Would You Trade Scheifele or Laine for a top dman?

[Jet]

Laine is probably my favourite player on the team and HATE the idea of trading him, but the team’s centre depth is BRUTAL so that makes Scheifele more untouchable in my opinion.

The only defensemen that I consider trading Laine for are Dahlin, Heiskanen and Seth Jones (*contract status could be worrisome*)

Guys like Werenski, Makar, Chabot and McAvoy are all intriguing, but are a notch below the others in overall potential and accomplishments to date. They would require a significant plus to get me to consider it.

Our center depth is BRUTAL?

Hardly. We have Scheifele Wheeler Little Lowry Copp Roslovic Gus and Perreault - almost our entire forward corps is a C

We do not have anyone to take the 1C role legitimately, which is the issue with trading Brighteyes.

 

[Vekke]

Scheifele is untouchable because franchise C’s are hard to get and being located at Winnipeg makes it almost impossible and expensive.

Scheif’s next deal will be a hard one. He must feel that he has given so much discount that he deserves 9-11 M$.

 

[surixon]

Scheife's next deal is so far away it isn't worth worrying about at this time.

My answer is no to either. Franchise C's on bargain deals are incredibly hard to find. Also Laine looks to be rounding unto a big multifaceted two way winger. You keep both.

As we saw with Trouba, top pairing dmen can be had for a 1st and a good prospect. If need be I would deal Ves and our first to get a long term fixture there.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I havent made any post because my english is just bad. Still i have read this Jets Forum many years and did make account just to take part different votings. Oh, and now i have made one post.

I've seen worse English here.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

if Laine put up back-to-back 91 pt years, we wouldn't hear the end of it i bet, regardless of what his underlying numbers look like. Wheeler puts it up, Scheifele PPG, and Jets put up 114 pts and apparently it's a disaster.

Saying it was a disaster is hyperbole, at best. It was very successful. That does not mean it was the best arrangement available.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Laine is probably my favourite player on the team and HATE the idea of trading him, but the team’s centre depth is BRUTAL so that makes Scheifele more untouchable in my opinion.

The only defensemen that I consider trading Laine for are Dahlin, Heiskanen and Seth Jones (*contract status could be worrisome*)

Guys like Werenski, Makar, Chabot and McAvoy are all intriguing, but are a notch below the others in overall potential and accomplishments to date. They would require a significant plus to get me to consider it.

Dahlin, Heiskanen and Makar are very similar in value, if not in style. Did you see Makar when we played Avs? He was fantastic.

I don't quite understand the love for Jones. Yes he is very good, both ways. But he is 25 YO and pretty much fully developed. It is possible that those 3 younger ones never exceed Jones, but they have shown talent suggesting a higher ceiling, as has Laine.

 

[DRW204]

Saying it was a disaster is hyperbole, at best. It was very successful. That does not mean it was the best arrangement available.

are you his/her babysitter? read through their posts in this thread. claims the numbers were never there, is a disaster etc., Scheifele and Wheeler were great together in 17-18

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Our center depth is BRUTAL?

Hardly. We have Scheifele Wheeler Little Lowry Copp Roslovic Gus and Perreault - almost our entire forward corps is a C

We do not have anyone to take the 1C role legitimately, which is the issue with trading Brighteyes.

That is a rosy picture of our C depth. Wheeler is a RW playing C. He's doing well this time and it may be permanent, or not. Little is a ? Lowry and Copp seem to need to play together to get the best out of both. Roslovic is not yet proven to be a C in the NHL. Perreault is no longer a C at all.

Wheeler, Little and Perreault are all in one stage or another of decline and can't be counted on very far down the road. So even if Wheeler is our new 2C we still need a replacement within a couple of years. Copp playing LW and being able to step in at C if needed is a good boost to depth, but if he is used that way our checking 3rd line becomes a 4b line.

Edit: Brutal is a bit of an overstatement though.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

are you his/her babysitter? read through their posts in this thread. claims the numbers were never there, is a disaster etc., Scheifele and Wheeler were great together in 17-18

I said very successful.

 

[Deedog99]

Teams don't need superstar defense men to win a cup. They need solid team defense.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Not a chance

With the right system and buy in from players you can be successful in the NHL. Everyone has to deal with the cap now so it really evens out and it makes teams that can really identify talent better then those that can't.

 

[Halberdier]

are you his/her babysitter? read through their posts in this thread. claims the numbers were never there, is a disaster etc., Scheifele and Wheeler were great together in 17-18

Scheifele and Wheeler were good together in 17-18, but really overrated. After Ehlers-Stastny-Laine line was formed, Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler was no longer the best line.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Not a chance

With the right system and buy in from players you can be successful in the NHL. Everyone has to deal with the cap now so it really evens out and it makes teams that can really identify talent better then those that can't.

It’s never even. You take out cap add weather, taxes a million other factors.

 

[DRW204]

Scheifele and Wheeler were good together in 17-18, but really overrated. After Ehlers-Stastny-Laine line was formed, Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler was no longer the best line.

so they weren't a disaster or never had the numbers there? got it.

 

[Halberdier]

so they weren't a disaster or never had the numbers there? got it.

I didn't say they were disaster.

They were good, but way overrated. Also as playing them together made 2nd line unbalanced (until Stastny), it was actually bad for the team to play them together in first half of 17-18. After Stastny fixed the team balance, it was OK that Scheifele & Wheeler played together.

You could say it was a disaster by Maurice to keep them together from late 16-17 until now (excluding the Stastny period), but not for the reason they were bad all the time (they weren't).

I think you can see the difference with balanced TOP-6 vs. unbalanced TOP-6.

 

[DRW204]

I didn't say they were disaster.

They were good, but way overrated. Also as playing them together made 2nd line unbalanced (until Stastny), it was actually bad for the team to play them together in first half of 17-18. After Stastny fixed the team balance, it was OK that Scheifele & Wheeler played together.

You could say it was a disaster by Maurice to keep them together from late 16-17 until now (excluding the Stastny period), but not for the reason they were bad all the time (they weren't).

I think you can see the difference with balanced TOP-6 vs. unbalanced TOP-6.

the poster i was commenting on referred to them as a disaster and never had the numbers to back up being together which is false. that's the whole point, perhaps read the entire post trail. they should have been broken up in 18-19 imo unfortunately we didn't have a suitable top line winger to replace Wheeler.

 

[Halberdier]

the poster i was commenting on referred to them as a disaster and never had the numbers to back up being together which is false. that's the whole point, perhaps read the entire post trail. they should have been broken up in 18-19 imo unfortunately we didn't have a suitable top line winger to replace Wheeler.

They had worse numbers (real numbers, end results) together than for example Laine and Scheifele had together. So in that sense it's true they didn't have numbers to back up the decision by Maurice. But if you mean that they were still winning their game most of the time 17-18, that's true.

It has been a disaster (for the team, for Scheifele, for Laine and Ehlers) to keep them hip jointed, but if just Scheifele & Wheeler duo is considered in isolation regardless how bad idea it was for the team: no, Mark Wheeler was not a disaster in 17-18.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Teams don't need superstar defense men to win a cup. They need solid team defense.

Not a chance

With the right system and buy in from players you can be successful in the NHL. Everyone has to deal with the cap now so it really evens out and it makes teams that can really identify talent better then those that can't.

Agree with both, and we have a very good group up front and just enough to cover our asses on D. No reason that this group can't succeed as they are.

Add Buff and Little back in, or (heaven forbid) their cap space, and the sky's the limit.

 

[DRW204]

They had worse numbers (real numbers, end results) together than for example Laine and Scheifele had together. So in that sense it's true they didn't have numbers to back up the decision by Maurice. But if you mean that they were still winning their game most of the time 17-18, that's true.

It has been a disaster (for the team, for Scheifele, for Laine and Ehlers) to keep them hip jointed, but if just Scheifele & Wheeler duo is considered in isolation regardless how bad idea it was for the team: no, Mark Wheeler was not a disaster in 17-18.

i don't disagree, but that's still not the crux of the discussion. Scheifele & Wheeler (the bromance) wasn't a disaster in 17-18 and poster said "numbers were never there, yet they stuck on it for 2 and half seasons" they were there in 17-18. their GF% in 17-18 was nearly equivalent to what Laine & Scheifele had together (withing 0.75% of each other IIRC). Id argue Laine & Scheifele together were riding an unsustainable on ice-shooting % through '18 with their SH% was better than most PPs. id reckon it would regress, but still be higher than most lines given you have the 2 of the best 5v5 shooters. if we are talking 18-19, yea they easily should have broken up but unfortunately Laine was terrible that season.

edit-Ehlers-Little-Laine was actually not bad in 16-17, 60% GF in 207 5v5 mins, perhaps that's why maurice wanted to give it a look? not sure. anyway, CSW wasn't a disaster in 17-18 or for 2.5 years, which is the point im making.

 

[Halberdier]

i don't disagree, but that's still not the crux of the discussion. Scheifele & Wheeler (the bromance) wasn't a disaster in 17-18 and poster said "numbers were never there, yet they stuck on it for 2 and half seasons" they were there in 17-18. their GF% in 17-18 was nearly equivalent to what Laine & Scheifele had together (withing 0.75% of each other IIRC). Id argue Laine & Scheifele together were riding an unsustainable on ice-shooting % through '18 with their SH% was better than most PPs. id reckon it would regress, but still be higher than most lines given you have the 2 of the best 5v5 shooters. if we are talking 18-19, yea they easily should have broken up but unfortunately Laine was terrible that season.

edit-Ehlers-Little-Laine was actually not bad in 16-17, 60% GF in 207 5v5 mins, perhaps that's why maurice wanted to give it a look? not sure. anyway, CSW wasn't a disaster in 17-18 or for 2.5 years, which is the point im making.

Yup, CSW certainly wasn't disaster 17-18, but keeping them together was... until Chevy hired Stastny.

 

[DRW204]

Yup, CSW certainly wasn't disaster 17-18, but keeping them together was... until Chevy hired Stastny.

yea such a disaster, we were pacing for 112 pts pre-stastny and finished w/ 114

 

[PhilJets]

You want me to choose between 2 of my favorite players ....




This 2 will win the cup together.

 

[Howard Chuck]

You want me to choose between 2 of my favorite players ....




This 2 will win the cup together.

There is the right answer!

 

[Ukkosenjumala]

Alot of teams have been burned by aquiring "top tier defencemen" that quickly became not so top-tier. If you look at scoring in the NHL right now and the likes of Pasternak/Marchand, Draisatl/McDavid, it's their sccoring that's the biggest factor by far in their good team records. I don't think having some elite Number 1 defenceman is the most important factor for a team. Elite forwards drive the wagon and goaltending, if you get even good goaltending you can outscore your opponents.

 

[Aries56]

Laine was criticized in his contract negotiations for not having primary assists. He took that to heart and changed his game to get those assists. The kid is a winner, you don't trade him. He's young and getting better.

Scheifele can't be replaced and won't be replaced anytime soon. I don't see us having a high pick or overpaying for a UFA center. He's also got a cap friendly hit. It's absurd to even consider.