Would You Trade Scheifele or Laine for a top dman?

[NotCommitted]

Ask yourself this --what do you think Laine will look like in 4-5 years at 26 yrs old ? --it's a very tough question to answer. Right now, he's sort of going backwards a little ?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and it would be boring if all had the same one... but weren't you one of the guys who was complaining Laine's lack of overall game when he was scoring 44 goals? This season he has improved hugely on those parts of his game "everyone" was whining about when he was scoring all those goals, so how can you say he's going backwards? Unless you talk only goals, but it seems those goals weren't that important when he was just a one-dimensional sniper...

 

[GNP]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and it would be boring if all had the same one... but weren't you one of the guys who was complaining Laine's lack of overall game when he was scoring 44 goals? This season he has improved hugely on those parts of his game "everyone" was whining about when he was scoring all those goals, so how can you say he's going backwards? Unless you talk only goals, but it seems those goals weren't that important when he was just a one-dimensional sniper...

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I was pointing out in the past, that Laine was pretty much a one dimensional player. This year his goal scoring has dried up, and his overall game is improving -- a long ways to go though. To many puck turnovers etc still. Hopefully he will clean that up, and also start scoring goals again. Be ideal if he could do both.

A guy like Ovechkin, who he was compared to --always keeps a high level of scoring goals up. Be good to see that from Laine, but I think he'll score 26-29 goals this year. Not keeping production up -- hopefully it's a slump, unless he'll change his style of play permanently.

As I said in my other post --I think his game is trending backwards.

You can defend him, and I can be critical of him, but really it matters not, as to where his game will go, it's all up to him.

 

[johnnyonthspot]

The question is not whether either player is good. We know they are both exceptionally talented players that could be used as trade bait to help the team progress.
Laine will always be a lightning rod for controversy.
I think he will only improve once he figures it out but do not want another Trouba situation with him hence the question shoud he be traded for a player that can help now.
I threw Scheifle in because he is at his peak, on a good contract, should get the Jets a good return and seems to only have chemistry with Wheeler.
It is a luxury to have options and players that are worth something on the open market.

 

[The Big M]

I would trade Scheiffle for a good defenseman.

I wouldn't trade Scheifele....not in a million years.

Having strong centermen down the middle in Scheifele, Wheeler, and Lowry makes us a formidable team.

 

[Howard Chuck]

__________________________________________________

I don't know if this Ehlers for Pesce rumor was true ? but I'm glad the Jets didn't deal Ehlers. It's a lot easier to find a reliable defenseman, than it is to find a guy like Ehlers who has blazing speed, and a great shot. I don't recall Pesce being at the top of defenseman point production ? I also would have "not" traded Ehlers straight up for Pesce - without the add on.

I definitely would trade Connor before I'd trade Ehlers, and we'd likely get about the same return. Because of Ehlers speed, and his shot from far out, he has tons of upside yet -and it's showing this year. Right now with Ehlers and Connor --your best off to keep them both, til you get an idea of their ceiling -- but that can work both ways, from the other clubs ??

Question is ? would you trade a guy like Laine who's only 21, straight up for a guy like Pesce --probably not, because Laine could turn out to be a prolific goal scoring and point achieving star in the league. To make a deal like this --you'd need the Canes to make a significant add on-IMO.

Ask yourself this --what do you think Laine will look like in 4-5 years at 26 yrs old ? --it's a very tough question to answer. Right now, he's sort of going backwards a little ?

Only his scoring is going backwards. Every other aspect of his game is much improved this season.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and it would be boring if all had the same one... but weren't you one of the guys who was complaining Laine's lack of overall game when he was scoring 44 goals? This season he has improved hugely on those parts of his game "everyone" was whining about when he was scoring all those goals, so how can you say he's going backwards? Unless you talk only goals, but it seems those goals weren't that important when he was just a one-dimensional sniper...

That's ok, because in a year or two we will have a 23 year old player that does everything

 

[Howard Chuck]

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I was pointing out in the past, that Laine was pretty much a one dimensional player. This year his goal scoring has dried up, and his overall game is improving -- a long ways to go though. To many puck turnovers etc still. Hopefully he will clean that up, and also start scoring goals again. Be ideal if he could do both.

A guy like Ovechkin, who he was compared to --always keeps a high level of scoring goals up. Be good to see that from Laine, but I think he'll score 26-29 goals this year. Not keeping production up -- hopefully it's a slump, unless he'll change his style of play permanently.

As I said in my other post --I think his game is trending backwards.

You can defend him, and I can be critical of him, but really it matters not, as where his game will go, is all up to him.

I don't even think his turnovers are any worse than anyone else on the team. This is one of those things that will live on with him for years even though it's not true anymore. I watch pretty much everyone lose puck battles or fumble the puck or pass to the opposition.

I actually cringe when Laine does it now, because I know that there are people who will only see his turnover and miss the rest of his game. Anyone else does it and it never comes up at all.

 

[jepjepjoo]

The question is not whether
player is good. We know they are both exceptionally talented players that could be used as trade bait to help the team progress.
Laine will always be a lightning rod for controversy.
I think he will only improve once he figures it out but do not want another Trouba situation with him hence the question shoud he be traded for a player that can help now.

You don't think Laine helps now?

I threw Scheifle in because he is at his peak, on a good contract, should get the Jets a good return and seems to only have chemistry with Wheeler.
It is a luxury to have options and players that are worth something on the open market.

Scheifele has been just fine without Wheeler:

5on5 from 16-17 to 19-20

	TOI	GF	GA	+/-	GF/60	GA/60	GF%
With Wheeler	2812	133	126	+7	2.84	2.69	51.35%
Without Wheeler	1026	69	45	+24	4.04	2.63	60.53%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Jets 31]

The question is not whether either player is good. We know they are both exceptionally talented players that could be used as trade bait to help the team progress.
Laine will always be a lightning rod for controversy.
I think he will only improve once he figures it out but do not want another Trouba situation with him hence the question shoud he be traded for a player that can help now.
I threw Scheifle in because he is at his peak, on a good contract, should get the Jets a good return and seems to only have chemistry with Wheeler.
It is a luxury to have options and players that are worth something on the open market.

Ok you are spelling Scheifele wrong on purpose , it's not Scheifle or Scheiffle it's Scheifele or just Scheif for short .

 

[Howard Chuck]

Ok you are spelling Scheifele wrong on purpose , it's not Scheifle or Scheiffle it's Scheifele or just Scheif for short .

55 is even easier!

 

[Jeti]

I think Laine will be a great player but 100% I'd move him if they could get an elite dman like Seth Jones in return. I think the list of defensemen I'd trade Laine for would be awfully short though. Off the top of my head: Dahlin, Heiskanen, Jones.

Scheifele can't be traded regardless of the value coming back if it's not for another center. The Jets are already lacking scoring centers.

 

[Jets 31]

Thanks johnnyonthspot for fixing the spelling .

 

[DRW204]

I think Laine will be a great player but 100% I'd move him if they could get an elite dman like Seth Jones in return. I think the list of defensemen I'd trade Laine for would be awfully short though. Off the top of my head: Dahlin, Heiskanen, Jones.

Scheifele can't be traded regardless of the value coming back if it's not for another center. The Jets are already lacking scoring centers.

add Makar to the list too, McAvoy?

i don't know if any of those teams would do that though

 

[JohnnyBerts]

add Makar to the list too, McAvoy?

i don't know if any of those teams would do that though

Yeah I agree, Makar is untouchable now and Boston wouldn't let Charlie go.

The problem for me if I'm trading for Laine is the contract. Not much term and I'd need to understand what resigning him entails which obviously he would want to wait to produce before agreeing to terms. Makes it a hard sell to get a great return for the Jets.

 

[Jet]

I don't even think his turnovers are any worse than anyone else on the team. This is one of those things that will live on with him for years even though it's not true anymore. I watch pretty much everyone lose puck battles or fumble the puck or pass to the opposition.

I actually cringe when Laine does it now, because I know that there are people who will only see his turnover and miss the rest of his game. Anyone else does it and it never comes up at all.

Turnovers by our talented forwards is the number one reason we are floundering at some important metrics right now.

I've been saying this all along - we bemoan our D corps, BUT if these players played better defensively, our team defense stats would improve astronomically. It's always easy to blame the defense for defensive issues, but it truly is a team attribute.

Laine is only one of our forwards who needs to get much better in this area. Ehlers has gotten better mainly on the back of his possession skills. Roslovic might be the worst, but Connor is right there, along with Laine. Schiefele and Wheeler have room for improvement in this regard as well.

I don't even want to mention Luoto and Shaw, as I don't believe they really bring enough to be on the team at all. I thing Gus is doing pretty well considering his experience and who he's on the ice with, but of course he has a lot to learn.

Really, Little, Copp, and Lowry are the only forwards we have who consistently play a good game on the other side of the puck, and even they could be better (I guess everyone could).

Of course, this has been an issue since hockey was first played. Offensively talented players usually have holes in their games, as their offensive success depends on a certain amount of bias and decision making based on higher defensive risk at the benefit of increased offensive chances.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Turnovers by our talented forwards is the number one reason we are floundering at some important metrics right now.

I've been saying this all along - we bemoan our D corps, BUT if these players played better defensively, our team defense stats would improve astronomically. It's always easy to blame the defense for defensive issues, but it truly is a team attribute.

Laine is only one of our forwards who needs to get much better in this area. Ehlers has gotten better mainly on the back of his possession skills. Roslovic might be the worst, but Connor is right there, along with Laine. Schiefele and Wheeler have room for improvement in this regard as well.

I don't even want to mention Luoto and Shaw, as I don't believe they really bring enough to be on the team at all. I thing Gus is doing pretty well considering his experience and who he's on the ice with, but of course he has a lot to learn.

Really, Little, Copp, and Lowry are the only forwards we have who consistently play a good game on the other side of the puck, and even they could be better (I guess everyone could).

Of course, this has been an issue since hockey was first played. Offensively talented players usually have holes in their games, as their offensive success depends on a certain amount of bias and decision making based on higher defensive risk at the benefit of increased offensive chances.

Agree, I would love to see us clean that up and at the same time not lose too much offensively. This should be a focus at practice.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Ok you are spelling Scheifele wrong on purpose , it's not Scheifle or Scheiffle it's Scheifele or just Scheif for short .

Scheifefe is also an acceptable variant.

 

[Psych0dad]

Scheifele has been just fine without Wheeler:

5on5 from 16-17 to 19-20

	TOI	GF	GA	+/-	GF/60	GA/60	GF%
With Wheeler	2812	133	126	+7	2.84	2.69	51.35%
Without Wheeler	1026	69	45	+24	4.04	2.63	60.53%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

That just highlights the question why did anyone ever think it was a good combination? The numbers were never there, yet they stuck on it for 2 and half seasons. In stats and on the ice, Scheifele looks far better without Wheeler. So naturally, we get years of them together while second line has no chemistry either so they were useless most of the time. That bromance and allowing it to go on unchecked for so long cost the team a lot of wins and who knows what else in the process.

 

[jepjepjoo]

People are really selling Laine's defensive efforts short this season... If Maurice sees it the same way, Laine should just say **** it and go all out on offense.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The question is not whether either player is good. We know they are both exceptionally talented players that could be used as trade bait to help the team progress.
Laine will always be a lightning rod for controversy.
I think he will only improve once he figures it out but do not want another Trouba situation with him hence the question shoud he be traded for a player that can help now.
I threw Scheifle in because he is at his peak, on a good contract, should get the Jets a good return and seems to only have chemistry with Wheeler.
It is a luxury to have options and players that are worth something on the open market.

We know they are both exceptionally talented players that could be used as trade bait to help the team progress.

No, we don't know that. In fact we know precisely the opposite of that. Take a look at the results of your poll.

Why would you even have the thought of a Trouba comparison run through your mind? There is zero comparability. The question of should he be traded now may be a legitimate one, but because a pessimistic view of him might conclude that his trade value is at a peak and will only go down. Not because of any impending Trouba situation.

Scheifele is absolutely not an option, sorry. Have you been reading the thread you started? This has been discussed pretty thoroughly. He is the only top 6 NHL C we have in the entire system. We may or may not get Little back. He may or may not be a top 6 C when/if he comes back. Wheeler may or may not be a top 6 C going forward, depending on whether or not he can maintain the level of play he has shown so far. But regardless, he is too old to be a long term solution as a top 6 C. That also applies to Little.

 

[robertocarlos]

Like a mother!

I find that ad offensive because I know what "mother" really means.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think Laine will be a great player but 100% I'd move him if they could get an elite dman like Seth Jones in return. I think the list of defensemen I'd trade Laine for would be awfully short though. Off the top of my head: Dahlin, Heiskanen, Jones.

Scheifele can't be traded regardless of the value coming back if it's not for another center. The Jets are already lacking scoring centers.

1 elite Dman is not very good value for the player that Laine is likely to become unless that Dman is truly elite, or elite+. Jones isn't quite there. Dahlin, Heiskanen and Makar appear to be. They are very young and in a similar position to Laine in that they have shown tremendous talent but are not yet completely proven.

I would do Laine for any 1 of those 3, 1 for 1. I don't think any of their teams would though. I would want an add with Jones. I doubt CBJ would give an add of any significance. Off hand, I can't think of any other D man who belongs in this discussion. I would do Laine for a lesser Dman + a good, young, prospective top 6 C. That Dman can't be too much lesser and the C has to be good.

 

[Jeti]

add Makar to the list too, McAvoy?

i don't know if any of those teams would do that though

Forgot Makar. Not sure I'd put McAvoy on that list though.

 

[Tommigun]

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I was pointing out in the past, that Laine was pretty much a one dimensional player. This year his goal scoring has dried up, and his overall game is improving -- a long ways to go though. To many puck turnovers etc still. Hopefully he will clean that up, and also start scoring goals again. Be ideal if he could do both.

A guy like Ovechkin, who he was compared to --always keeps a high level of scoring goals up. Be good to see that from Laine, but I think he'll score 26-29 goals this year. Not keeping production up -- hopefully it's a slump, unless he'll change his style of play permanently.

As I said in my other post --I think his game is trending backwards.

You can defend him, and I can be critical of him, but really it matters not, as where his game will go, is all up to him.

Long ways to go still? Long way to go still to what? He’s 21. He’s already scored over 40 goals in a season. Do you understand how young 21 is, and what he’s accomplished already?

 

[Positive]

That just highlights the question why did anyone ever think it was a good combination? The numbers were never there, yet they stuck on it for 2 and half seasons. In stats and on the ice, Scheifele looks far better without Wheeler. So naturally, we get years of them together while second line has no chemistry either so they were useless most of the time. That bromance and allowing it to go on unchecked for so long cost the team a lot of wins and who knows what else in the process.

Overstating a little bit I think. 52-20-10 and 114 pts in 2018. 47-30-5 for 99 pts in 2019. Back-to-back 91 pt seasons for Wheeler, 60 and 84 pt seasons for Scheif (22 games lost to injury in 2017-2018). Career highs for both players.

I know some people hate the 'bromance' but painting it as an 'obvious' disaster/mismatch is a bit of a spin.