Player Discussion With how many goals will Jake Virtanen end the 2018-19 season?

[LickTheEnvelope]

My guess is 17 goals, 16 assists, 33 Points.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Chances are he's a better left winger than right winger.

Chances are he is not.

 

[coldsteel79]

Chances are he is not.

Chances are he is

 

[DL44]

riveting

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Chances are he is

Its really rare in todays NHL.
Virtanen lacks elite offensive skills and hockey IQ to be one of the rare exceptions.

 

[DL44]

Its really rare in todays NHL.
Virtanen lacks elite offensive skills and hockey IQ to be one of the rare exceptions.

Generally it could be an issue... but you talking about a player that's played a significant amount of LW in the past. A position he's comfortable with.

Playing the off wing isn't rare at all for players.
Hockey is dynamic and fluid enough that in the flow of a game then end up on either board every shift anyway.

in the last yr we've seen Granlund, Eriksson, Gagner, Virtanen, Lepsic, Goldobin all play their off wing for runs.

Started a mainboard thread to get a current landscape of wingers that play their off-wing maintaining effectiveness.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Generally it could be an issue... but you talking about a player that's played a significant amount of LW in the past. A position he's comfortable with.

Playing the off wing isn't rare at all for players.
Hockey is dynamic and fluid enough that in the flow of a game then end up on either board every shift anyway.

in the last yr we've seen Granlund, Eriksson, Gagner, Virtanen, Lepsic, Goldobin all play their off wing for runs.

Started a mainboard thread to get a current landscape of wingers that play their off-wing maintaining effectiveness.

That is a great idea!

 

[DL44]

That is a great idea!

You can do a search for the listed players on Capfriendly

Here's LISTED right handed left wingers:
Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Here's LISTED left handed right wingers:
Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

And then you can also see the vast number of wingers that play both sides as well..

But that are just the listings...
I'll see if people discuss how they actually play on their off wing.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You can do a search for the listed players on Capfriendly

Here's LISTED right handed left wingers:
Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Here's LISTED left handed right wingers:
Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

And then you can also see the vast number of wingers that play both sides as well..

But that are just the listings...
I'll see if people discuss how they actually play on their off wing.

Yeah its a bit difficult to research how much they actually line up at the off wing positions.
I'll gladly admit Im wrong and will change my mind if that is where the data points to.

That thread is really a good idea.

 

[Lindgren]

I voted 16-19.

As others have mentioned, it's difficult to project without knowing what moves the Canucks will make between now and the beginning of the season, and where in the line-up Virtanen will play. My best guess is that he'll get more ice-time overall and more offensive opportunities, and that, along with a bit of development on his part, will get him up to about 16 goals.

A goal every five games. C'mon Jake, is that too much to ask?

 

[Wo Yorfat]

17g 15a

 

[bbud]

Play him on left wing for pp he is quick enough to get to puck and may get good looks worth a try

 

[Kryten]

You can try. Next year is a throw away year anyways, so might as well experiment.

Chances are it wont work tho.

Like others have said I think it could work. His net rushes would likely have better scoring chances if he was shooting forehand with better angles on the net. And like you say about next year, it is pretty much a throwaway year. Play the young players and experiment with combos and try to develop

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Like others have said I think it could work. His net rushes would likely have better scoring chances if he was shooting forehand with better angles on the net. And like you say about next year, it is pretty much a throwaway year. Play the young players and experiment with combos and try to develop

All I am saying is that in todays NHL it takes a special player to play the off wing.

Go check the names thrown around in the thread @Literally started.

 

[RobertKron]

Like others have said I think it could work. His net rushes would likely have better scoring chances if he was shooting forehand with better angles on the net. And like you say about next year, it is pretty much a throwaway year. Play the young players and experiment with combos and try to develop

The problem is that it puts more pressure on some of the places where he is already weak.

A couple examples: He'll be attacking the defense with the puck to the inside, and I don't think that he has the hands to effectively do that on a consistent basis in the NHL without becoming even more of a drive-wide-and-take-a-wide-angle-shot one-trick pony. He's also forced to distribute the puck from his backhand much, much more, which is making a weak spot in his game that much harder.

 

[Kryten]

The problem is that it puts more pressure on some of the places where he is already weak.

A couple examples: He'll be attacking the defense with the puck to the inside, and I don't think that he has the hands to effectively do that on a consistent basis in the NHL without becoming even more of a drive-wide-and-take-a-wide-angle-shot one-trick pony. He's also forced to distribute the puck from his backhand much, much more, which is making a weak spot in his game that much harder.

Thats all true. He can still use speed and strength to go wide on defenders on the backhand before curling to the forehand, and he could still rotate or skate backwards to pass on his forehand to 3rd man rushes, also could just practice his backhand passes. Its worth a try I think. Make him work on his weaknesses, find and hone his strengths, try to make him more useful for himself and us. Hopefully he puts in the work this summer on his hands skill.

 

[F A N]

Its really rare in todays NHL.
Virtanen lacks elite offensive skills and hockey IQ to be one of the rare exceptions.

Yeah its a bit difficult to research how much they actually line up at the off wing positions.
I'll gladly admit Im wrong and will change my mind if that is where the data points to.

All I am saying is that in todays NHL it takes a special player to play the off wing.

Go check the names thrown around in the thread @Literally started.

The FACT is that Virtanen was drafted as a left winger. It doesn't take a special player to be better in the position that they have played most of their hockey careers. Ovechkin and Bure were better on their "off wing" because they grew up playing that position. It's simple logic.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

The FACT is that Virtanen was drafted as a left winger. It doesn't take a special player to be better in the position that they have played most of their hockey careers. Ovechkin and Bure were better on their "off wing" because they grew up playing that position. It's simple logic.

Simple logic. Neat.

Jake Virtanen
Pavel Bure
Alexander Mogilny
Alexander Ovechkin
Alex Radulov
James Neal
Nikita Kucherov
Vladimir Tarasenko
Artemi Panarin
Patrick Kane
Marian Hossa
Matts Zuccarello
Filip Forsberg

One of these players is not like the other.

 

[F A N]

Simple logic. Neat.

Jake Virtanen
Pavel Bure
Alexander Mogilny
Alexander Ovechkin
Alex Radulov
James Neal
Nikita Kucherov
Vladimir Tarasenko
Artemi Panarin
Patrick Kane
Marian Hossa
Matts Zuccarello
Filip Forsberg

One of these players is not like the other.

You do realize that most of the guys on your list grew up playing on their off wing right? So much for willing to admit that you are wrong.

Please explain why the chances are a player who grew up playing on their off wing won't be better in that position at the NHL level?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You do realize that most of the guys on your list grew up playing on their off wing right? So much for willing to admit that you are wrong.

Please explain why the chances are a player who grew up playing on their off wing won't be better in that position at the NHL level?

I'll gladly change my mind if presented with a strong enough argument.

I should not have to explain to you that you can get away with things in the Junior that you wont get away with in the NHL.

Can you explain your understanding of playing the off wing please?

 

[DL44]

Simple logic. Neat.

Jake Virtanen
Pavel Bure
Alexander Mogilny
Alexander Ovechkin
Alex Radulov
James Neal
Nikita Kucherov
Vladimir Tarasenko
Artemi Panarin
Patrick Kane
Marian Hossa
Matts Zuccarello
Filip Forsberg

One of these players is not like the other.

Also Versteeg, Weal, Comeau, Hyman, Eriksson, Granlund, Mantha, Frolik, Meier, Goodrow, etc etc etc...

Why cheerypick just elite of the list?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Also Versteeg, Weal, Comeau, Hyman, Eriksson, Granlund, Mantha, Frolik, Meier, Goodrow, etc etc etc...

Why cheerypick just elite of the list?

Versteeg shoots right is listed as an RW on depth charts.

Weal is listed as C on depth charts.

Comeau shoots right is listed as RW on depth charts.

Mantha shoots left is listed as LW on depth charts.

Eriksson! lined up at LW most of last season, you should know this. Wether he was succesful at any position...

Granlund! is listed as Center, guess his stint with the Sedins counts as success.. I'll give you Granlund.

Frolik! Yes. He plays on the off wing too! 25 points playing with Gaudreau and Monahan. I will also grant you Frolik.

Meier listed as an LW on depth charts. He did play RW with Pavelski.


You accuse me of cherry picking while half of the guys you listed are not playing the off wing position as their main position?

 

[Grub]

I see his point production as similar to that of Lars Eller.

 

[F A N]

I see his point production as similar to that of Lars Eller.

Which season? 18 goals and 38 point's he's going to be in the NHL unless he sucks defensively. 12-13 goals and 26-27 points? I think he'll spend his career in Finland.

 

[RobertKron]

You do realize that most of the guys on your list grew up playing on their off wing right? So much for willing to admit that you are wrong.

Please explain why the chances are a player who grew up playing on their off wing won't be better in that position at the NHL level?

Because as you go up to the best league in the world, things become more difficult and you can’t always get away with things that you could at a lower level.

It might be a surprise for you to learn this, but there are also a lot of players who played centre growing up, but are not better at centre than they are on the wing in the NHL.