Player Discussion With how many goals will Jake Virtanen end the 2018-19 season?

[F A N]

Because as you go up to the best league in the world, things become more difficult and you can’t always get away with things that you could at a lower level.

It might be a surprise for you to learn this, but there are also a lot of players who played centre growing up, but are not better at centre than they are on the wing in the NHL.

It might be a surprise for you to learn this, but there are a lot of players who played centre growing up who can play the wing in the NHL. It's a different ball game getting a Dman or winger to switch sides.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

It might be a surprise for you to learn this, but there are a lot of players who played centre growing up who can play the wing in the NHL. It's a different ball game getting a Dman or winger to switch sides.

Can you please explain your understanding of playing the off wing and its strengths and weaknesses?
I'm having a harder and harder time understanding your position as this discussion progresses.

 

[terrible dee]

It really depends on the coaching staff,

Put in the right position, I'm sure he can pot 20

 

[DL44]

It really depends on the coaching staff,

Put in the right position, I'm sure he can pot 20

Maybe even if put in the left position.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Maybe even if put in the left position.

Well played sir.

 

[DL44]

Versteeg shoots right is listed as an RW on depth charts.

Weal is listed as C on depth charts.

Comeau shoots right is listed as RW on depth charts.

Mantha shoots left is listed as LW on depth charts.

Eriksson! lined up at LW most of last season, you should know this. Wether he was succesful at any position...

Granlund! is listed as Center, guess his stint with the Sedins counts as success.. I'll give you Granlund.

Frolik! Yes. He plays on the off wing too! 25 points playing with Gaudreau and Monahan. I will also grant you Frolik.

Meier listed as an LW on depth charts. He did play RW with Pavelski.


You accuse me of cherry picking while half of the guys you listed are not playing the off wing position as their main position?

Not sure what depth charts you were looking at... but I was looking at their listings.

Depth charts are a picture of a single moment of the roster. Wouldn't expect them to show multiple positions for a player on a team's depth chart.

Also I must not of paying attention where you were looking for the off-wing as the primary position.

Worth noting... due to a high ratio of lefties - you will often see lefty RWers... especially in Canada... and as depicted by player listings on Capfriendly.

Left handed RWers > Right handed LWers

 

[JumpierPegasus]

I'll say he pots 15-20 with 15 assists. 30 - 35 points would be a step in the right direction I think

He showed some really good play to end last season

 

[RobertKron]

Not sure what depth charts you were looking at... but I was looking at their listings.

Depth charts are a picture of a single moment of the roster. Wouldn't expect them to show multiple positions for a player on a team's depth chart.

Also I must not of paying attention where you were looking for the off-wing as the primary position.

Worth noting... due to a high ratio of lefties - you will often see lefty RWers... especially in Canada... and as depicted by player listings on Capfriendly.

Left handed RWers > Right handed LWers

Good grief

 

[Canucks1096]

It really depends on the coaching staff,

Put in the right position, I'm sure he can pot 20

He was put in the right position the last 20 games of last season and had 5 points to show for.

He doesn't even have a season with more that 20 points the last 3 seasons. Not sure how he can get 20 goals.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Not sure what depth charts you were looking at... but I was looking at their listings.

Depth charts are a picture of a single moment of the roster. Wouldn't expect them to show multiple positions for a player on a team's depth chart.

Also I must not of paying attention where you were looking for the off-wing as the primary position.

Worth noting... due to a high ratio of lefties - you will often see lefty RWers... especially in Canada... and as depicted by player listings on Capfriendly.

Left handed RWers > Right handed LWers

That probably explains a big chunk of our disagreement.

 

[DL44]

That probably explains a big chunk of our disagreement.

Just wanna see Virtanen given a run of games on the L side to see how it looks.

Like all those mentioned above.. take away the stipulation that the off wing is the primary.. they've all apparently had runs off wing and listed as such for that reason.. i.e. Ov the one year under Hunter he played the season 5on5 on his off wing... got him listed as a LW, RW

 

[RobertKron]

Just wanna see Virtanen given a run of games on the L side to see how it looks.

Like all those mentioned above.. take away the stipulation that the off wing is the primary.. they've all apparently had runs off wing and listed as such for that reason.. i.e. Ov the one year under Hunter he played the season 5on5 on his off wing... got him listed as a LW, RW

Keep in mind that Hockeydb, Eliteprospects, etc. sometimes have a tendency to forget to update players' info, so you sometimes end up with a guy being listed as a C because he played there in junior, or the minors, or whatever.

Also, has anyone in here argued against giving it a shot?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Thanks for the insider info I just started watching hockey.

Many players have and continue to play the off wing or both sides over the years. The guys that usually do it have elite speed, you know, like Virtanen has. Alex Mogilny and Pavel Bure both spent lots of time on either wing

I just realized something;

Maybe you don't play EA NHL at all...
One of its many flaws is that it doesn't simulate the downsides of playing the offwing at all.
So you ALWAYS want to setup your R shooters on the LW and L shooters on the RW for the obvious one-timer benefits.

That is what I were referring to.

 

[Chris R]

Who will be his line mates? If Sutter and Eriksson/Granlund 8-12. If Gaudette/Pettersson and Leipsic 16-19.

 

[DL44]

That probably explains a big chunk of our disagreement.

Other names trickling into that thread:
Rakell, Boedker, Rick nash, Draisaitl, Keller..

 

[Fatass]

Just wanna see Virtanen given a run of games on the L side to see how it looks.

Like all those mentioned above.. take away the stipulation that the off wing is the primary.. they've all apparently had runs off wing and listed as such for that reason.. i.e. Ov the one year under Hunter he played the season 5on5 on his off wing... got him listed as a LW, RW

Jake is way better offensively on the left wing. He sees the ice better for sure. Plus, on the rush, he is shooting from a better angle. I don't understand TG's insistence on playing Jake on the right wing.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Other names trickling into that thread:
Rakell, Boedker, Rick nash, Draisaitl, Keller..

Oh yeah, Im following the thread!

Somewhat surprised by the number of players listed, but not so much that they are mostly exceptional talents.

Jake is way better offensively on the left wing. He sees the ice better for sure. Plus, on the rush, he is shooting from a better angle. I don't understand TG's insistence on playing Jake on the right wing.

I almost wrote a longish response but whats the point.

 

[Melvin]

Just wanna see Virtanen given a run of games on the L side to see how it looks.

Like all those mentioned above.. take away the stipulation that the off wing is the primary.. they've all apparently had runs off wing and listed as such for that reason.. i.e. Ov the one year under Hunter he played the season 5on5 on his off wing... got him listed as a LW, RW

Well if Ovechkin can pull it off it will be no problem for Jake Virtanen.

 

[DL44]

Well if Ovechkin can pull it off it will be no problem for Jake Virtanen.

Yup.. that's literally what I was insinuating. Super literally actually.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yup.. that's literally what I was insinuating. Super literally actually.

But he does have a point... The same point I've been trying to make.

 

[DL44]

But he does have a point... The same point I've been trying to make.

That Virtanen isn't Ov?

If your point is only the elite can pull off playing the off wing effectively, then that point is false.

 

[RobertKron]

Somewhat surprised by the number of players listed, but not so much that they are mostly exceptional talents.

It shouldn’t come as much of a surprise. There are more right-handed people in general, which leads to more left-shooting players.

A lot of systems (the left wing lock and its derivatives, for example) are structured based on this in order to take advantage of the high number of players on their “wrong” side.

This is another reason, on top of all of the potential downsides, why a coach might prefer to deploy Virtanen as a right-shooting right wing.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

That Virtanen isn't Ov?

If your point is only the elite can pull off playing the off wing effectively, then that point is false.

Just go look at the list of names in your thread.

Compare them to JV.

 

[DL44]

Just go look at the list of names in your thread.

Compare them to JV.

Boedker, Keller, Bailey, Hyman, Drouin, Janmark, Minny's Granlund, Rakell, Sharp, Perron, Neal, Nash, Hossa, Marchessault, Smith, Draisaitl, plus The Russians. (Names from the thread alone.. not close to a complete list... there are many more...)

It's a weak argument to state - compare them to Jake... you are talking about Russian superstars and 7-8-9-10 year pros to a 21 yr old kid who is on the verge of getting a significant opportunity on this roster. A kid drafted as a winger playing his off wing. Makes no sense for you taking such a hard line on this.

 

[Lindgren]

Here's some detail from the Daily Hive on the news that Virtanen is working on his stickhandling with Pavel Barber. It includes a bit of interesting video:

Canucks' Virtanen is training with YouTube sensation Pavel Barber