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Player Discussion With how many goals will Jake Virtanen end the 2018-19 season?

How many goals will Jake Virtanen score in 2018-19

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DL44

DL44

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Sep 26, 2006
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lindgren said:
Here's some detail from the Daily Hive on the news that Virtanen is working on his stickhandling with Pavel Barber. It includes a bit of interesting video:

Canucks' Virtanen is training with YouTube sensation Pavel Barber
Click to expand...


  • pavelbarbertrainingThe key to being unpredictable is understanding body language and how it manipulates the oppositions movements. Working with @jakevirtanen18 on this one.
    Looking off in the direction you are faking, giving no tells (waiting until the last second to change the blade angle and edge work), and putting the puck to a protected area where you can gather the puck with momentum and hands cleared. We always want to be in a position to make a pass, shoot or stickhandle coming out of any move.

Beautiful!

#probablyVirtanensburneraccount
 
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F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
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PuckMunchkin said:
Can you please explain your understanding of playing the off wing and its strengths and weaknesses?
I'm having a harder and harder time understanding your position as this discussion progresses.
Click to expand...

"Off wing" means playing the side that is opposite from the handedness in which you shoot no? If you shoot right and you play left wing then you're playing your "off wing."

I don't know why it is so hard for you to comprehend my position in this discussion. You think the odds are Virtanen won't be better as a left winger because he would be playing his "off wing." But he grew up playing left wing. How hard is it to understand that the odds are that a left winger who grew up playing on the left wing would be better playing the left wing as opposed to the right wing?

Your turn. Explain to me why the odds are that a player who grew up playing the left wing and was drafted as a left winger is a better right winger in the NHL because he shoots right.
 
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PuckMunchkin

PuckMunchkin

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Dec 13, 2006
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F A N said:
"Off wing" means playing the side that is opposite from the handedness in which you shoot no? If you shoot right and you play left wing then you're playing your "off wing."

I don't know why it is so hard for you to comprehend my position in this discussion. You think the odds are Virtanen won't be better as a left winger because he would be playing his "off wing." But he grew up playing left wing. How hard is it to understand that the odds are that a left winger who grew up playing on the left wing would be better playing the left wing as opposed to the right wing?

Your turn. Explain to me why the odds are that a player who grew up playing the left wing and was drafted as a left winger is a better right winger in the NHL because he shoots right.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you agree that you can do things in jr hockey that you won't get away with in the NHL?


Here is a video tutorial of what a normal breakout situation entails for a winger:



When you play your off wing, all this goes out the window.

You are either playing with your back to the opponent, that obviously has its limitations, or taking the pass with your backhand with its own set of negatives. This puts tremendous pressure on our D to make plays when exiting the zone. We lack good puck moving D men.

Maybe we disagree on JVs toolkit as well... but... If you look at the list of players in the thread @Literally started ( in order posted ):
Josh Bailey
Alexander Mogilny
Zach Hyman
Burrows, Granlund, Loui Eriksson with the Sedins
Patrick Kane
Jakub Vorecek
Vladimir Tarasenko
Alexander Radulov
Marion Hossa
Nikita Kucherov
Matts Zuccarello
Filip Forsberg
Artemi Panarin
James Neal
Mattias Janmark
Alexander Ovechkin
Teuvo Teräväinen
Erik Cole
Ray Whitney
Ilya Kovalchuk
Patrick Sharp
Jonathan Marchessault
Reilly Smith
David Perron
Clayton Keller
Mikkel Bødker
Rickard Rakell
Rick Nash

I bolded players that are roughly in the same ball park as JV in terms of talent & hockey IQ.

Negatives:
- harder to protect the puck all through transition
- harder to receive breakout passes

Positives:
- the one-timer from across the ice
- when able to cut to the middle, you are in prime shooting territory

For elite offensive players the positives are worth the downsides; Or they are talented enough to overcome the negatives in their own zone.
 
DL44

DL44

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Sep 26, 2006
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Trying to hard now.

Not to worried about what may happen because this player is smarter and that was not and look at their production...

Wanna see what will happen.
 
Last edited:

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,745
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PuckMunchkin said:
I'm sure you agree that you can do things in jr hockey that you won't get away with in the NHL?
Click to expand...

I asked you to explain to me why the odds are that a player who grew up playing the left wing and was drafted as a left winger is a better right winger in the NHL because he shoots right. How is this relevant? Are you saying that a player who shoots right and grew up playing as a left winger HAS TO BE BETTER AS A RIGHT WINGER? Are you saying that this type of player simply got away in juniors playing the left side?

PuckMunchkin said:
Negatives:
- harder to protect the puck all through transition
- harder to receive breakout passes

Positives:
- the one-timer from across the ice
- when able to cut to the middle, you are in prime shooting territory

For elite offensive players the positives are worth the downsides; Or they are talented enough to overcome the negatives in their own zone.
Click to expand...

You are talking about the merits of having a right shooting player play the right wing instead of left wing. That doesn't address what we are discussing and the question asked of you. Explain to me why the odds are that a player who grew up playing the left wing would be better off playing right wing at the NHL level simply because the player shoots right. Are you saying that the merits of a right shooting player playing the right wing outweighs a player's comfort and experience in playing another position?

I'm also confused about the players you bolded. Hyman shoots right but I think he grew up playing C and he has been playing C or left wing with the Leafs? Same with Janmark. As for Boedker is known to play both wings and hasn't shown that he's a better right winger than left.

Also not sure why you bolded Burrows and Granlund. Is Burrows better on the right than the left without the Sedins? I don't think so. Granlund is another guy who grew up playing C on your list.

You have offered nothing to support that the odds are that a right shooting player who grew up playing the left wing will be a better right winger in the NHL.
 
PuckMunchkin

PuckMunchkin

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Dec 13, 2006
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F A N said:
I asked you to explain to me why the odds are that a player who grew up playing the left wing and was drafted as a left winger is a better right winger in the NHL because he shoots right. How is this relevant? Are you saying that a player who shoots right and grew up playing as a left winger HAS TO BE BETTER AS A RIGHT WINGER? Are you saying that this type of player simply got away in juniors playing the left side?



You are talking about the merits of having a right shooting player play the right wing instead of left wing. That doesn't address what we are discussing and the question asked of you. Explain to me why the odds are that a player who grew up playing the left wing would be better off playing right wing at the NHL level simply because the player shoots right. Are you saying that the merits of a right shooting player playing the right wing outweighs a player's comfort and experience in playing another position?

I'm also confused about the players you bolded. Hyman shoots right but I think he grew up playing C and he has been playing C or left wing with the Leafs? Same with Janmark. As for Boedker is known to play both wings and hasn't shown that he's a better right winger than left.

Also not sure why you bolded Burrows and Granlund. Is Burrows better on the right than the left without the Sedins? I don't think so. Granlund is another guy who grew up playing C on your list.

You have offered nothing to support that the odds are that a right shooting player who grew up playing the left wing will be a better right winger in the NHL.
Click to expand...

You win!
 
opendoor

opendoor

Registered User
Dec 12, 2006
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Zippgunn said:
Sure and if all the planets line up Granlund could get "at least" 60-80 points. Easy isn't it?
Click to expand...

While I'd say 20 is overly optimistic, I'm not sure you can compare the idea of a 21 year old who got 12 minutes a night getting 5 more goals over a whole season with a 25 year old who got 16+ minutes a night increasing his production by 3-4x.
 
PuckMunchkin

PuckMunchkin

Very Nice, Very Evil!
Dec 13, 2006
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Necromancery!

Looks like Jake produced as most expected this year. He had a short stretch of confident play where everything was going right. Once he came back to earth it was the same-old: elite at zone entry sub par at decisionmaking once gaining the zone.
 

Phenomenon13

Registered User
Oct 10, 2011
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Remember when people said he was going to pot 20 this year? He's going to fall well short of that. I got him scoring 15 this year.
 
polarbearcub

polarbearcub

Registered User
May 7, 2011
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Vancouver
Good run at the beginning of the year. Now has done a total dissapearing act. Hockey IQ is so low. For such a big strong guy you would think he could win board battles
 
Shareefruck

Shareefruck

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Apr 2, 2005
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geebaan said:
I still say he was better than I expected(totalbust), but still awful value for a6 pick.
Click to expand...
Basically, he was initially expected to be a better player than this even by people who thought it was a really awful pick, but then he plummeted so hard that even the outraged/completely pessimistic expectation looked like a completely out of reach pipe dream, and then to his credit, he worked hard to somewhat dig himself out of that hole (which he was largely responsible for by being less professional than even the lowest expectation) and ended up closer to but still not quite the disappointing player he was expected to be in the first place.
 
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Billy Kvcmu

Billy Kvcmu

Registered User
Dec 5, 2014
27,675
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West Vancouver
PuckMunchkin said:
Necromancery!

Looks like Jake produced as most expected this year. He had a short stretch of confident play where everything was going right. Once he came back to earth it was the same-old: elite at zone entry sub par at decisionmaking once gaining the zone.
Click to expand...
The horse is now an expired minced meat now
He is what he is, an okay speedy bottom 6 winger
Who might have a career year in his late 20s
Aka Michael Grabner
 
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