Value of: Winners and Losers in the Expansion Draft

[plock]

I think Minnesota and Anaheim are major winners, they got sweetheart deals. Losers I would say Florida, Ottawa, and Nashville.

They got sweetheart deals because,if they had felt forced to trade valuable dmen rather than lose them for nothing,it would have thrown a bit of a monkey wrench into VGK's plan of acquiring and flipping dmen.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Biggest losers = Vegas

Hahaha! I'm laughing my butt off! .

Even with all the articles explaining that the Vegas ED picks weren't going to make sense and that the full picture would unfurl via trades/flips.

Tomorrow your mind will explode.

[MOD]

 

[Iceman]

Winners: Buffalo and Anaheim (Anaheim still lost a good player but it could've been way worse)

Meh: Tampa (should've just lost Namestnikov unless they go for FAs with the Garrison money) and Chicago

Losers: Ottawa (sigh) and Islanders

 

[RefalancheStillLose]

Winner = Dallas

Got rid of an albatross of a contract, and didn't have to pay anything to do it.
Only way it could have been better is if Eakin and 1 of the goalies went, but that is just unreasonable

 

[indigobuffalo]

Isles the biggest losers by a country mile....giving up a first and a second rounder?....can't think of a single guy on the Islanders not named John Tavares who's worth that....should have just coughed up a guy like Bailey or Nelson and just gone with the flow

Ryan Strome is waving hello.

Also the cost of a cap dump in Grabovski that clears budget room for the rumoured "mega deal" Snow is going to unfurl at the draft.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Anyone that lost a RHD is a big ol' L-O-S-E-R.

Looking at you, Boston, Calgary, and Chicago.

Washington lost a key prospect. Schmidt was the reason they included Carrick in the deal with Toronto. Now they don't have either.

Detroit. Ouch. Not having Mrazek drafted. The vultures are circling the carcass now...

 

[MattMartin]

Isles the biggest losers by a country mile....giving up a first and a second rounder?....can't think of a single guy on the Islanders not named John Tavares who's worth that....should have just coughed up a guy like Bailey or Nelson and just gone with the flow

Have to agree here. We basically gave up a 15th OA (where Erik Karlsson was taken) and a 2nd (just a few of many great 2nd round picks Shea Weber/Bergeron/Subban)

So basically Karlsson+Bergeron+Grabovski+JF Berube for not taking Brock Nelson.

 

[Schwartzee]

People are crazy. I absolutely love what the Isles did. And I genuinely can not wait until hopefully they trade Nelson/strome. The fact that other teams clearly value them in some regard is excellent news for the Isles because as a fan, its time to use these guys as trade chips.

 

[firstemperor]

From Vegas' perspective, they're doing the right thing. You're not going to build a good team right away from scrap heap, throwing them together as new teammates with new coach and system. Have to build through the draft and supplement in free agency. Acquiring extra picks and choosing players to potentially flip for more is the way to go. With their financial situation, they have potential to be a force in a few years.

They sold potentially premium assets for way too little. Even if they were planning to not compete this year and accumulate picks, just take the best player and flip them for more later. It was really bad asset management IMO.

The biggest losers to me were Vegas for that reason.

Winners? I don't think anyone really wins but Minnesota (given where they were pre-expansion) is one team I think came out huge. Also, any team selling top 4 defenseman pretty much came out better as the Vegas D market ended up vanishing secondary to McPhee's decision making.

 

[Connor]

Biggest loser = Vegas

I agree.

If Vegas just scooped the best players on the expansion lists he could've acquired much better assets by flipping them.

 

[sr edler]

Pens are winners. Shed almost 6M and give up a 2020 2nd round pick.

Most definitely. Should have picked Hagelin, Rust or Bonino of that club.

 

[Spectra]

Isles the biggest losers by a country mile....giving up a first and a second rounder?....can't think of a single guy on the Islanders not named John Tavares who's worth that....should have just coughed up a guy like Bailey or Nelson and just gone with the flow

Lol, this is insanity. Let me guess, your biggest hockey interest is the NHL entry draft, not the actual NHL hockey that's played in between these drafts?

Established NHL players, like for example: Brock Nelson, Calvin De Haan, Casey Cizikas, Thomas Hickey, Josh Bailey and Ryan Strome are all worth significantly more than the lottery tickets that are a first round draft pick and a second round draft pick.

You can disagree, but you would be incorrect.

 

[Iceman]

I agree.

If Vegas just scooped the best players on the expansion lists he could've acquired much better assets by flipping them.

I think so too.

I realize they want to breed their own studs but they need established young players.

Maybe they don't want to get on any GM's bad side by pissing them off. It's not GMGM's fault but some teams would get ticked of by having their stud young defenseman or whoever else get selected.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Theodore is going be a good player for Vegas, has a great wrist shot when he uses it right. I wouldn't be surprised if he leads their D in points next season (30 to 40 points).
Consistency has been his problem but he'll be given alot more chances to prove himself there without Larsson & Montour competing with him.

For them this is better than Vatanen, they get a younger player thats bigger but has the same combo of speed & skill, he'll become their franchise D-man. Would Vatanen even stay healthy ? He always seems to get hurt.

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

I think so too.

I realize they want to breed their own studs but they need established young players.

Maybe they don't want to get on any GM's bad side by pissing them off. It's not GMGM's fault but some teams would get ticked of by having their stud young defenseman or whoever else get selected.

You could've given that as a reason as to why GMGM gifted Nashville Forsberg for Erat. Unless there is a bunch of turnover at the draft, he just did to same thing for Minny, Detroit and a bunch of other teams.

Vegas could have and should have done better.

 

[firstemperor]

Vegas could have and should have done better.

If Vegas got Eriksson-Ek or Kaprizov, I wouldn't think nearly as poorly of McPhee. At least play some hard ball.

I mean, the Ducks trade made a bit of sense. Theodore is a nice piece. Ducks could have just bought out Bieska and trade Vats to screw them over. Wouldn't have been ideal but Minny had less leverage in that situation.

Reports were probably right that McPhee just really liked Haula. Just like he really liked Erat, I guess.

 

[tiger_80]

Florida and Ottawa had a bad day.

Carolina and Pittsburgh made out like bandits.

Well, they lost a legitimate starting goal-tender, even if he was superfluous, and a pick. Not exactly the addition by subtraction, if their Murray gets injured.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I think the Flames and Wings are losers instead of winners tB]tbh if the Knights went with those two picks on those two teams instead of another guy and with no[/B] side deal. Shows how bad their rosters are. They preferred an AHLers with potential over any actual NHLer on the Wings lol cos the available NHLers all suck and they don't have the excuse of a bunch being exempt like the Leafs or Oilers either.

There are many so many factors at play you are brushing aside for Calgary, we can go over them for you though:

- Calgary protected 7-3-1 unlike some teams who had to protect 8 skaters and expose their fifth best eligible forward

- Calgary's #4 defenseman, Michael Stone, was exposed... however also a UFA who has to make an indication of willingness to sign. This allowed Calgary to basically protect a fourth top four D (assuming Stone is our guy; options are still open to upgrade however he did fit). If Stone were under contract it'd be a different story altogether.

- Calgary's best exposed forward, Versteeg... is also a UFA. But don't be surprised to see Versteeg and Stone re-upped now that expansion is out of the way.

- Engelland is a Vegas resident who wanted to be in Vegas. He is coming off a year where he was on the top penalty unit of a playoff team. He is a character locker room guy who has worn an A at times in his Calgary stint. Even if we agree he is not the best hockey player he was a fitting acquisition for non hockey reasons - leadership, cost (the over-35 bonus in his contract), and the PR of being able to say he is from Vegas.

- Vegas is likely a sub cap-floor team next year. So taking 3.25M 32YO Stajan without a pick incentive didn't fit for a team that WANTS to be bad.

- Brouwer may not be a very good NHLer, but even his harshest critics like myself would admit he has some value as a power play specialist that was dragged down by his salary and term. Even I could tell you he played some part in us having a top ten power play.

- Hunter Shinkaruk may have been a good fit but his waiver eligibility was a risk as he may need another year of development from a strength perspective.

- Emile Poirier is a very talented player who was reportedly checked into substance abuse rehab last year. This is a huge red flag independant of talent level.

- Brett Kulak is a young D who was shuffled around leagues and often healthy scratched after good games. Vegas can't just hockeyDB scout a guy like him. Vegas only had so many resources and the Flames additionally seemed to play a game of cat-and-mouse with Kulak when Vegas scouts were in attendance. Also Vegas drafted like ten LHD including some bizarre selections along the lines of Griffin Reinhart who have shown less as NHLers but have raw pedigree boosting their perceived value. Really, this argument could be made for players on all 30 teams - Vegas' internal scouting reports are far from a perfect and reliable encyclopedia. There were easy choices like Shea Theodore and Nate Schmidt that fell into their lap wjonplay the same position.

- Alex Chiasson is a winger. You can only stock up on so many wingers. Same applies to Freddie Hamilton. These are purely depth players and Calgary makes no pretense otherwise.

- Matthew Tkachuk was expansion exempt. Mark Jankowski, David Rittich, Jon Gillies, Andrew Mangiapane, Oliver Kylington, Rasmus Andersson, Morgan Klimchuk, David Pribyl, Garnet Hathaway, Ryan Lomberg, Hunter Smith, Auston Caroll, Josh Healey, Mason McDonald, all also expansion draft exempt despite me rattling off the names of pretty much our entire playoff farm team (2nd youngest in AHL) sans Shinkaruk/Kulak/Poirier/Wotherspoon. How was that any different from the Leafs or Oilers you were referencing?

 

[Bronson]

Even if Las Vegas had picked the best player available from every team they would have been initially mediocre and then ****ing terrible within a few seasons when their best players have hit UFA. I think GMGM did the best he could, he has assembled a somewhat competent team with a great goalie and solid defense and a mediocre offense plus he has a lot of draft picks and young players who will stay with the club for a long time.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

If Vegas got Eriksson-Ek or Kaprizov, I wouldn't think nearly as poorly of McPhee. At least play some hard ball.

I mean, the Ducks trade made a bit of sense. Theodore is a nice piece. Ducks could have just bought out Bieska and trade Vats to screw them over. Wouldn't have been ideal but Minny had less leverage in that situation.

Reports were probably right that McPhee just really liked Haula. Just like he really liked Erat, I guess.

True. Even if the return was bad in a desperate trade to move Vatanen, I imagine they would have gotten a 1st for Vatanen at least & Bieska being bought out if he didn't waive would have meant something alot less than Theodore going to Vegas.

I don't think Vegas/Anaheim are true Rivals yet until Vegas is competing for the Pacific division.

 

[Bronson]

Have to agree here. We basically gave up a 15th OA (where Erik Karlsson was taken) and a 2nd (just a few of many great 2nd round picks Shea Weber/Bergeron/Subban)

So basically Karlsson+Bergeron+Grabovski+JF Berube for not taking Brock Nelson.

If you think about Sergei Fedorov being picked in the fourth round and that Garth Snow could have traded the first and the second for probably ten fourth round picks it becomes even worse. We could have had TEN SERGEI FEDOROVS who could play both as defenders and forwards and win the Selke and the Hart every season. Snow must go.

 

[Brainiac]

And in the 'losers' category, I'd like to add all those fans refreshing their browser frenetically, waiting for big trades to happen...

Seriously guys, this ED draft was just like the others before. A few more trades, but no game breaking stuff there. Move along, not much to see.

 

[IslesNorway]

Isles did great but I'm not so sure that Vegas was better off making all those deals instead of just picking some of the exposed players. There were certainly better players out there to be had, but they chose to go for picks instead.

 

[IslesNorway]

Isles the biggest losers by a country mile....giving up a first and a second rounder?....can't think of a single guy on the Islanders not named John Tavares who's worth that....should have just coughed up a guy like Bailey or Nelson and just gone with the flow

Proves you understand nothing. Isles paid a 1st to protect Nelson, Strome and De Haan and gave up a 2nd to get rid of Grabovski, who hasn't played in a year and a half and carries a $5million cap hit (and $6 million salary...).

When they proceed to make a big trade shortly using that capspace, perhaps you will understand. They needed to shed salary and paid a 2nd to do so - great deal that potentially lands them Duchene going from $4 million to $9million cap space matters a lot and changes things greatly for them. Losing Bischoff matters not just another contract off the books.

 

[Bronson]

Isles did great but I'm not so sure that Vegas was better off making all those deals instead of just picking some of the exposed players. There were certainly better players out there to be had, but they chose to go for picks instead.

The old boys club would be pissed off if GMGM just picked BPA from every team. Without a prospect pool to speak of and very little pull on the free agent pool, I'm sure Vegas will need trading partners more than most in the near future so if GMGM had burned his bridges within the first day of existence, Vegas would be ****ed for a very long time.