Wilson charging on Wennberg (no supplementary discipline)

[OV Rocks]

Like I said initially, I don't think this hit is a penalty.

But the idea that Wilson is a big sad victim because he's so strong that he can't help but throw questionable hits all the time, is complete garbage.

As you say yourself, this is a guy who has obviously put a deal of effort and study into figuring out EXACTLY what he can do to injure opponents without getting hit with suspensions. There's nothing "clean" about this hit, it's exploiting the window of vulnerability when an opponent has barely touched the puck for a split-second, in order to deliver an absolutely borderline hit with a high risk of injury. It's dirty as hell, even though not illegal.

When players talk about a lack of respect in the game, this is what they mean. This kind of hit was not part of the game of hockey until relatively recent years and the league has actively been working to get rid of as much of it as possible. Wilson is apparently willing to be the guy who frustrates that process in order to extend his otherwise irrelevant career.

2000 and 2003 for those hits, this is not new it is a part of the culture of hockey.

Stevens would be kicked out of today's NHL for those hits. Lindros has his head down and Karyia "wasn't expecting a hit". You are on the ice in the NHL, always expect a hit.

He is hitting people exactly how he should be which is why he has relatively avoided further consequences. Players with their heads down or players who have put themselves in a position that are vulnerable to get hit need to be more aware on the ice. I am a full supporter of preventing concussions but now we are getting to a point where a suspension comes from a player for hitting someone who has put themselves in a vulnerable position or weren't expecting to be hit. That will take hits out of the game.

 

[King'sPawn]

NHL is sending a crystal clear message that they are not tolerating goonery in the playoffs this year. I like it.

He faces no supplemental discipline. This hit was worse than Doughty's. What's to like?

 

[Crede777]

I guess the Jackets will have to police themselves.

 

[ReggieRed]

Not seeing the issue with that hit. He went through the body and unless I'm mistaken there's no rule against hitting from the side. I don't have a dog in this fight. So legit asking what's the problem with this play?

I'll freely admit I have my CBJ fan glasses on, but the second view in the OP video sure looks like the side of Wennberg's head was Wilson's primary impact point. I have no problem with hitting from the side, hitting "unsuspecting" players, or physical hockey, but when the head is the primary impact point, that us where you have to draw the line IMO.

 

[BF3]

League office sure turns into a bunch of cowards in the playoffs. That's should easily have been a game for Wilson. Absurd.

 

[Moses Doughty]

He faces no supplemental discipline. This hit was worse than Doughty's. What's to like?

Ah see you miss the important fact. One was against Columbus and one was against Vegas. There's literally zero reason that Wilson doesn't get a game after Doughty was suspended for any reasonable explanation

 

[izlez]

No attempt to play the puck at all. Lined him up from far back. Blindside hit. This is a suspension for sure.

Again, posts like this are baffling to me. In what was are any of these words relevant to anything?


No attempt to play the puck? That pretty much defines hockey. I can't imagine what rule you think this breaks.

Lines him up from far back? So, is he supposed to close his eyes while on the ice so that he doesn't look at a guy for too long? What does this mean?

Blindside hit? So it's a hit from behind? He's supposed to politely shake the hand of people skating with their head turned around?

 

[IceNeophyte]

Ah see you miss the important fact. One was against Columbus and one was against Vegas. There's literally zero reason that Wilson doesn't get a game after Doughty was suspended for any reasonable explanation

 

[IceNeophyte]

He faces no supplemental discipline. This hit was worse than Doughty's. What's to like?

Then my hopes are dashed.

 

[tarheelhockey]

2000 and 2003 for those hits, this is not new it is a part of the culture of hockey.

Stevens would be kicked out of today's NHL for those hits. Lindros has his head down and Karyia "wasn't expecting a hit". You are on the ice in the NHL, always expect a hit.

He is hitting people exactly how he should be which is why he has relatively avoided further consequences. Players with their heads down or players who have put themselves in a position that are vulnerable to get hit need to be more aware on the ice. I am a full supporter of preventing concussions but now we are getting to a point where a suspension comes from a player for hitting someone who has put themselves in a vulnerable position or weren't expecting to be hit. That will take hits out of the game.

Yeah which is why I said "relatively recent".

This game has been around for over 150 years. In a recognizable format for the past 70+.

Hits like this are part of a late-90s, early-00s culture where the game became all about trying to physically break your opponent. The NHL had a huge hand in that as it refused to crack down on high hits even as an entire generation of stars had their careers altered and ended, and guys who grew up in that culture (Tom Wilson, born 1994) had it ingrained in them that they should hit-to-kill at all times. That lasted about 10-15 years before the league started to really crack down in 2010, when it became clear that players like Cooke and Torres were making a career out of that skill set. Much like the elimination of fighting has taken goons out of the league, the crackdown on headhunting has largely removed that element.

Wilson is one of the very few still remaining, kind of like late-career Parros, and largely because he's just a little bit more subtle about how he lives on the borderline of the rules. But make no mistake about it, he represents the swan song of a culture that should never have been allowed to seep into the game to begin with. If he keeps this up, the league will find a way to put an end to his career sooner rather than later, like they did with Torres.

 

[izlez]

Ah see you miss the important fact. One was against Columbus and one was against Vegas. There's literally zero reason that Wilson doesn't get a game after Doughty was suspended for any reasonable explanation

Doughty picked the head.

Wilson contacted the head while making full body contact.

This stuff STILL isn't complicated.

 

[Fire Benning]

Avoids suspension...great job DOPS.

 

[Crede777]

But make no mistake about it, he represents the swan song of a culture that should never have been allowed to seep into the game to begin with.

This is well said.

Again, as the NFL is finding out, players cannot be expected to "assume the risk" of CTE's even if they're well compensated for it. The message is clear - don't "try to prevent" concussions. Eliminate them. If the league could theoretically survive (even with a modest decrease in revenue) without hitting, then it will have to have very strong justifications for keeping them. Or it will lose potentially billions in settlement costs.

 

[Il Stugotz]

Again, posts like this are baffling to me. In what was are any of these words relevant to anything?

It’s mystifying. “Blindside hit” hasn’t been in the rule book for 6 or 7 years.

For others, if you want to argue that Wilson’s hit is illegal, you should be arguing that Wennberg’s head is the main point of contact, that Wilson unnecessarily extended upward, and that head contact was avoidable. The language I used in the preceding sentence is from the actual, current rule.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Wilson is the Vontaze Burfict of the NHL.

 

[Ocoee]

Let me puke first for defending Wilson... if Wennberg doesn't bend over/lower himself to turn then Wilson wouldn't hit his head. I've watched the video 20 times trying to fault Wilson but I just can't.
Edit: Let me edit this post. I mean for a suspension. A 2 minute penalty for charging was warranted.

 

[OV Rocks]

Yeah which is why I said "relatively recent".

This game has been around for over 150 years. In a recognizable format for the past 70+.

Hits like this are part of a late-90s, early-00s culture where the game became all about trying to physically break your opponent. The NHL had a huge hand in that as it refused to crack down on high hits even as an entire generation of stars had their careers altered and ended, and guys who grew up in that culture (Tom Wilson, born 1994) had it ingrained in them that they should hit-to-kill at all times. That lasted about 10-15 years before the league started to really crack down in 2010, when it became clear that players like Cooke and Torres were making a career out of that skill set. Much like the elimination of fighting has taken goons out of the league, the crackdown on headhunting has largely removed that element.

Wilson is one of the very few still remaining, kind of like late-career Parros, and largely because he's just a little bit more subtle about how he lives on the borderline of the rules. But make no mistake about it, he represents the swan song of a culture that should never have been allowed to seep into the game to begin with. If he keeps this up, the league will find a way to put an end to his career sooner rather than later, like they did with Torres.

Your personal vendetta against how Tom Wilson plays is not what I am arguing.

Tom Wilson is my example but the fact remains if you penalize a player because the opponent puts himself in a bad position the league will never be the same. Hockey is a full contact, high impact sport, where split second decisions not only score goals but put players in position to be hit or not. There has to be an awareness from all of the players that if they are out of position for even a half a second they are vulnerable to be hit and as a result injured. I was taught in Peewee that if you are on the ice you can be hit, most will be clean, most you will see coming, but some will be dirty and some will come when you are not expecting it. If the head is down, if you just released the puck, or if you just got the puck you have to be expecting to be hit. That is what the problem is. Tom Wilson hits players who all fall into that category and cannot and should never be penalized because of it.

He injures people because of his size and speed at which he plays the game, not because he goes out every game trying to break someones bones.

 

[mouser]

No suspensions for Capitals’ Tom Wilson, Blue Jackets’ Josh Anderson

Capitals forward Tom Wilson will not be suspended by the NHL for his check on Blue Jackets forward Alex Wennberg, according to a person familiar with the league’s disciplinary decision making.

The league’s department of player safety could not determine whether Wennberg’s head was the main point of contact for Wilson’s hit given the available camera angles, the person said.

I think that's a reasonable assessment from the video angles that were posted in this thread. My impression is Wilson got a significant portion of Wennberg's head, but personally I can't see enough of the entire collision to say conclusively that it was the main point of contact.

 

[trick9]

Yeah which is why I said "relatively recent".

This game has been around for over 150 years. In a recognizable format for the past 70+.

Hits like this are part of a late-90s, early-00s culture where the game became all about trying to physically break your opponent. The NHL had a huge hand in that as it refused to crack down on high hits even as an entire generation of stars had their careers altered and ended, and guys who grew up in that culture (Tom Wilson, born 1994) had it ingrained in them that they should hit-to-kill at all times. That lasted about 10-15 years before the league started to really crack down in 2010, when it became clear that players like Cooke and Torres were making a career out of that skill set. Much like the elimination of fighting has taken goons out of the league, the crackdown on headhunting has largely removed that element.

Wilson is one of the very few still remaining, kind of like late-career Parros, and largely because he's just a little bit more subtle about how he lives on the borderline of the rules. But make no mistake about it, he represents the swan song of a culture that should never have been allowed to seep into the game to begin with. If he keeps this up, the league will find a way to put an end to his career sooner rather than later, like they did with Torres.

Tom Wilson (in meaningful ones) has 391 regular season and 42 playoff games without a suspension. He walks the line quite a bit but he's not nearly as dirty as people make him out to be.

Just curious. That's 433 overall games. How many times were Raffi Torres and Matt Cooke suspended in their first 433 games?

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

No suspensions for Capitals’ Tom Wilson, Blue Jackets’ Josh Anderson



I think that's a reasonable assessment from the video angles that were posted in this thread. My impression is Wilson got a significant portion of Wennberg's head, but personally I can't see enough of the entire collision to say that conclusively.

DOPS: So you can hit unsuspecting players, but just don't hit them in the head

I mean what happens if Ovi isn't on the other side of this hit to brace Wenneberg's fall? This could have been a very very very ugly outcome for Wenneberg

What a freakin joke

 

[Moses Doughty]

Doughty picked the head.

Wilson contacted the head while making full body contact.

This stuff STILL isn't complicated.

Doughty picked the shoulder, and Carrier decided he needed to lean his head inwards and extend it. Dude put himself in a terrible spot while he already had a guy coming to hit him.

It's not complicated, but it actually requires watching what Carrier does, unless you believe people should put themselves purposely in a bad spot because it'll get a suspension


edit: It's one thing if you decide to punish all contact with the head with a suspension no matter what the player who got hit does, but it's different when you have multiple incidents the next day with head contact and nothing happens

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

No suspensions for Capitals’ Tom Wilson, Blue Jackets’ Josh Anderson



I think that's a reasonable assessment from the video angles that were posted in this thread. My impression is Wilson got a significant portion of Wennberg's head, but personally I can't see enough of the entire collision to say conclusively that it was the main point of contact.

At least 16 cameras in the rink and they couldn't find more evidence.

Convenient.

 

[Il Stugotz]

DOPS: So you can hit unsuspecting players, but just don't hit them in the head

Yeah, that’s consistent with the rules.

 

[mouser]

At least 16 cameras in the rink and they couldn't find more evidence.

Convenient.

I find the DoPS discussions usually run like the OJ Simpson defense.

"Your honor: the police are conspiring against my client. Oh, and they're completely incompetent too."

 

[Bounces R Way]

Not surprised there was no suspension. This is barely a 2 minute penalty. Kadri and Doughty's were both much much worse.

Bubblewrap league.