Value of: William Nylander to Edmonton

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

ITT: Why all Leafs players are better than an all Oilers players.

In other threads: Why all Leafs players shouldn't make as much or more than their Oiler counterparts.

Pick one, Leafs fans.

Exactly. Nailed it.

 

[McFlyingV]

Its not discounting them, but when compared to Matthews he simply hasn't had success at 5v5 when not paired with an elite talent. His numbers at 5v5 with and without McDavid are dramatically different.

Hence why I said Matthews > Draisaitl. Nylander's 5v5 production away from Matthews is not very good either from what I recall (idk where to look with hockeywowy gone). I think its ridiculous to discredit elite players because they play with other elite players. I would never do that to Nylander or Matthews because I realize they are both great players. Looking simply at the numbers of a small sample size where Draisaitl played with a lot of struggling bottom 6 players/rookies seems like a pretty flimsy argument, especially when he put up good numbers the year before without McDavid. Its also quite obvious to anyone who watches that Draisaitl and McDavid complement each other rather than one riding coattails.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Oilers wouldn't touch a Drai for Nylander swap with a 10 foot pole. Excusing the fact that Drai is a far superior player, his chemistry with McDavid would likely not be replicated - and certainly not be exceeded, with Nylander.

The Leafs fan proposal that had a Nylander + swap for McDavid was hilarious too. Why would the Oilers do that exactly?

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Its not discounting them, but when compared to Matthews he simply hasn't had success at 5v5 when not paired with an elite talent. His numbers at 5v5 with and without McDavid are dramatically different.

How was Matthews playoff performance compared to Draisaitl?

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Oilers wouldn't touch a Drai for Nylander swap with a 10 foot pole. Excusing the fact that Drai is a far superior player, his chemistry with McDavid would likely not be replicated - and certainly not be exceeded, with Nylander.

The Leafs fan proposal that had a Nylander + swap for McDavid was hilarious too. Why would the Oilers do that exactly?

Nylander + for McDavid??!? Excuse me while I go laugh until I puke. Unless that + was Matthews to at least get the conversation started.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Nah its McDavid>Matthews=Draisaitl>Marner/Nylander ect

I'd throw in another > in terms of McDavid over Matthews and give Auston the edge over Draisaitl even though at this moment they're relatively comparable. Matthews will widen that gap by the end of the season though obviously.

 

[93LEAFS]

Hence why I said Matthews > Draisaitl. Nylander's 5v5 production away from Matthews is not very good either from what I recall (idk where to look with hockeywowy gone). I think its ridiculous to discredit elite players because they play with other elite players. I would never do that to Nylander or Matthews because I realize they are both great players. Looking simply at the numbers of a small sample size where Draisaitl played with a lot of struggling bottom 6 players/rookies seems like a pretty flimsy argument, especially when he put up good numbers the year before without McDavid. Its also quite obvious to anyone who watches that Draisaitl and McDavid complement each other rather than one riding coattails.

Nylander's numbers with Kadri are quite similar if I remember correctly, but hopefully, Corsica gets that aspect of the site back soon. Nylander has a sub 7 oiSH% at 5v5, which I don't expect to continue.

I'm not saying he's totally riding McDavid's coattails, but you point to his down 5v5 numbers due to playing with rookies and bottom 6 players, who outside of a rare shift were Matthews linemates his entire rookies year. I was responding to someone who said they were equals, and I acknowledge you said Matthews is better, but Drai wasn't a high-end producer at 5v5 until he was moved to McDavid's wing. He had a good year with Hall, but his stretch as an elite player came as a winger, unlike Matthews who carried his own line.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

I'd throw in another > in terms of McDavid over Matthews and give Auston the edge over Draisaitl even though at this moment they're relatively comparable. Matthews will widen that gap by the end of the season though obviously.

I can live with that, of course I wouldn't take Draisaitl over Matthews if there was a draft available but you certainly must recognize Draisaitl is his own driver both in the playoffs and when McDavid is injured.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Nylander + for McDavid??!? Excuse me while I go laugh until I puke. Unless that + was Matthews to at least get the conversation started.

I guess they can always dream, no matter how ludicrously they overrate their players.

Nylander + Matthews would be tempting for McDavid but the Leafs would have to add at least one more decent piece to that for sure. I want to say Marner just to get them riled up. McDavid in anything other than an Oilers jersey just wouldn't be right though...

 

[93LEAFS]

How was Matthews playoff performance compared to Draisaitl?

Matthews was our best player, and Drai was yours. But, you can't draw much off of a 6 and 13 game sample. If we go by year it isn't close, and compare what Matthews did with rookies and bottom sixers as his linemates at 19 to what Draisaitl did at 21. At the same age, Drai was in Kelowna. Matthews was the best player on a playoff team. Matthews has arguably the best season by a rookie teenager since Crosby and was ridiculously productive at 5v5 playing with rookies.

 

[McFlyingV]

Nylander's numbers with Kadri are quite similar if I remember correctly, but hopefully, Corsica gets that aspect of the site back soon. Nylander has a sub 7 oiSH% at 5v5, which I don't expect to continue.

I'm not saying he's totally riding McDavid's coattails, but you point to his down 5v5 numbers due to playing with rookies and bottom 6 players, who outside of a rare shift were Matthews linemates his entire rookies year. I was responding to someone who said they were equals, and I acknowledge you said Matthews is better, but Drai wasn't a high-end producer at 5v5 until he was moved to McDavid's wing. He had a good year with Hall, but his stretch as an elite player came as a winger, unlike Matthews who carried his own line.

Not a ton that I disagree with there, Matthews season was more impressive imo. I do however question if people actually watch Draisaitl play when he's referred to as simply a winger. He takes as many draws as McDavid on that line and takes just as much centre and defensive responsibilities as McDavid. When the teams looking for a goal McDavid essentially becomes the winger and Draisaitl becomes the centre. In general they share the centre duties fairly evenly on most nights depending on who is first man back.

For the record, my part about Draisaitls line mates in that small sample where his 5v5 production wasn't great was meant as a comparison to Nylander, not Matthews. Nylander has never had to spend that much time with the likes of Pouliot and struggling rookies Slepyshev and Puljujarvi.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

I can live with that, of course I wouldn't take Draisaitl over Matthews if there was a draft available but you certainly must recognize Draisaitl is his own driver both in the playoffs and when McDavid is injured.

Draisaitl may be one of the most criminally underrated players on these boards at the moment. The narrative that he's nothing without McDavid and that his playoff success away from him isn't legitimate or sustainable is such a ridiculous notion. Look forward to watching him make those who clearly haven't watched him play and just rely on advanced stats to judge a player eat their words this season.

 

[McFlyingV]

Draisaitl may be one of the most criminally underrated players on these boards at the moment. The narrative that he's nothing without McDavid and that his playoff success away from him isn't legitimate or sustainable is such a ridiculous notion. Look forward to watching him make those who clearly haven't watched him play and just rely on advanced stats to judge a player eat their words this season.

I don't think he'll ever get recognition for all the space he creates for McDavid and sublime passes and plays he makes out there. I don't think he'll ever get credit for his shot either which has come a long way and is bordering on elite because even if he scores 35-40 goals it will always be "LOL I could score 30 goals playing with McDavid".

 

[yababy]

Oilers wouldn't touch a Drai for Nylander swap with a 10 foot pole. Excusing the fact that Drai is a far superior player, his chemistry with McDavid would likely not be replicated - and certainly not be exceeded, with Nylander.

The Leafs fan proposal that had a Nylander + swap for McDavid was hilarious too. Why would the Oilers do that exactly?

Are you saying mcdavid has linemates? All I saw was mcdavid last night, every other Oilers on the ice were like extras on the movie set.

 

[TMLeafs17]

Are you guys seriously trying to debate Drai>Matthews? Ok then, start a poll, hahaha!

edit: As for Nylander, it would take McD, no one else is worth it 1 for 1 from the Leafs POV. Klefbom is injury prone and honestly not as valuable, Drai is right on par in terms of value but man that contract is big. I wouldn’t do it 1 for 1 right now.

edit 2: And no, I’m not saying Nylander is worth McD, I’m saying no one else is 1 for 1. Just cause I know you’ll probably only read the first part of my sentence cause that’s what children do nowadays.

 

[McFlyingV]

Are you guys seriously trying to debate Drai>Matthews? Ok then, start a poll, hahaha!

edit: As for Nylander, it would take McD, no one else is worth it 1 for 1 from the Leafs POV. Klefbom is injury prone and honestly not as valuable, Drai is right on par in terms of value but man that contract is big. I wouldn’t do it 1 for 1 right now.

edit 2: And no, I’m not saying Nylander is worth McD, I’m saying no one else is 1 for 1. Just cause I know you’ll probably only read the first part of my sentence cause that’s what children do nowadays.

Calls people children, makes a childish uninformed post that Klefbom is injury prone. Maybe go do your research on the "injuries" Klefbom has had. Unless of course we're considering a shoulder surgery 5 years ago and a 3-4 week fractured metacarpal turned staph infection injury prone. If you don't see the value in Klefbom then thats your loss. He'd be your best Dman.

 

[I am Canadian]

Oilers wouldn't touch a Drai for Nylander swap with a 10 foot pole. Excusing the fact that Drai is a far superior player, his chemistry with McDavid would likely not be replicated - and certainly not be exceeded, with Nylander.

The Leafs fan proposal that had a Nylander + swap for McDavid was hilarious too. Why would the Oilers do that exactly?

Same reason the Leafs would not move Nylander for anyone outside of Mcdavid, Drai, Klefbom (Maybe).

 

[I am Canadian]

delete

 

[Scott Stevens]

McDavid in anything other than an Oilers jersey just wouldn't be right though...

No, it really wouldn’t.

The Oilers “earned” his services, fair and square, with a decade of refusing to lift a finger to try and win hockey games.

And the Oilers fan base “earned” his services too, by buying in completely to the decade of commitment to finding a new leader. After all, it was Oilers fans that invented throwing massive parties to watch the reveal of the draft order.

I’m sure I will get replies about how much you love the taste of my salty bodily fluids(weird- but you been being you, hfboards), but tell me what isn’t true there?

 

[McFlyingV]

Same reason the Leafs would not move Nylander for anyone outside of Mcdavid, Drai, Klefbom (Maybe).

Fair post. I definitely wouldn't expect you to, and especially not for some package involving Puljujarvi. Regardless of how good you think he'll be vs. how good I think he can be, he's simply at least another year or 2 away imo from contributing like Nylander, if he ever even hits that level. The Leafs aren't looking to prolong the process, they want to compete now.

Even if theoretically Nurse+Pulju was worth more than Nylander in value, it still wouldn't make any sense for Toronto. Maybe it makes them better in the long run, but they're not waiting and taking the gamble to find out. The 3 of Matthews, Nylander, Marner are not going anywhere unless the Leafs become desperate for a difference maker on the blue line then perhaps some discussion might arise regarding the latter 2.

 

[McFlyingV]

No, it really wouldn’t.

The Oilers “earned” his services, fair and square, with a decade of refusing to lift a finger to try and win hockey games.

And the Oilers fan base “earned” his services too, by buying in completely to the decade of commitment to finding a new leader. After all, it was Oilers fans that invented throwing massive parties to watch the reveal of the draft order.

I’m sure I will get replies about how much you love the taste of my salty bodily fluids(weird- but you been being you, hfboards), but tell me what isn’t true there?

Close, but I was more concerned about your blood pressure with all that sodium intake. You sound like a broken record with your constant spiel. Its almost like you think we didn't live through the last 10 years and experience it first hand.

 

[Scott Stevens]

Close, but I was more concerned about your blood pressure with all that sodium intake. You sound like a broken record with your constant spiel. Its almost like you think we didn't live through the last 10 years and experience it first hand.

My salty butt tears leave my body and splash into your mouth.

It’s not my intake.

 

[TMLeafs17]

Calls people children, makes a childish uninformed post that Klefbom is injury prone. Maybe go do your research on the "injuries" Klefbom has had. Unless of course we're considering a shoulder surgery 5 years ago and a 3-4 week fractured metacarpal turned staph infection injury prone. If you don't see the value in Klefbom then thats your loss. He'd be your best Dman.

Ok well I was never arguing that, I said no 1 for 1 for Nylander. Last time I checked a shoulder surgery and a fractured bone are injuries... Anyways that’s quite a complex you have there. Why don’t you go look up Lupul's injury history, all “freak” accidents and infections too. Have a good one mate.

 

[McFlyingV]

Ok well I was never arguing that, I said no 1 for 1 for Nylander. Last time I checked a shoulder surgery and a fractured bone are injuries... Anyways that’s quite a complex you have there. Why don’t you go look up Lupul's injury history, all “freak” accidents and infections too. Have a good one mate.

I think you need to look up the meaning of the word complex. As for the Lupul comparison, thats quite the stretch. We're talking about a guy who missed considerable games in 8 straight seasons vs. a guy who missed most of his draft+2 season 5 years ago, and 50 games a season ago. Aside from that he's been pretty much entirely healthy outside of the odd bang up that most players experience at some point in a season.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Are you guys seriously trying to debate Drai>Matthews? Ok then, start a poll, hahaha!

edit: As for Nylander, it would take McD, no one else is worth it 1 for 1 from the Leafs POV. Klefbom is injury prone and honestly not as valuable, Drai is right on par in terms of value but man that contract is big. I wouldn’t do it 1 for 1 right now.

edit 2: And no, I’m not saying Nylander is worth McD, I’m saying no one else is 1 for 1. Just cause I know you’ll probably only read the first part of my sentence cause that’s what children do nowadays.

Good job creating a situation to become outraged over and then going crazy with the hyperbole. Where did anyone say Drai>Matthews?

Keep dreaming you wouldn't have to gut your team starting with Matthews to get McDavid.