Value of: William Nylander (Mod warning post 165)

[Junohockeyfan]

I heard nylander is now a 2way forward, in the Bob gainey mold

Points don't matter anymore.

He is the modern day Mike Ribeiro, except less productive and softer than Mikey.

 

[PaulGG]

They really should have traded this kid. It would sent the correct signal to the rest of the team. Now it is ridiculous and they haven’t done much good since the signing.

 

[mitchthemitch]

He has a CF of 58%, (+7 rel) with an oiSH% of 8.8 which means the bounces have started going his way. It shows with 18 points in last 24 games. The reasons he received the amount of criticism he did is because a) he plays in toronto and b) he was coming off a contract holdout. Laine went through a worse slump than Nylander but it was overlooked by many

 

[hector morrison]

They really should have traded this kid. It would sent the correct signal to the rest of the team. Now it is ridiculous and they haven’t done much good since the signing.

What signal would that be? ..That some other team will overpay you if the Leafs don't? If it was easy,we would all have jobs in the front office of sports teams.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

He has a CF of 58%, (+7 rel) with an oiSH% of 8.8 which means the bounces have started going his way. It shows with 18 points in last 24 games. The reasons he received the amount of criticism he did is because a) he plays in toronto and b) he was coming off a contract holdout. Laine went through a worse slump than Nylander but it was overlooked by many

This. Nylander has been creating tons of chances, the bounces are now just starting to level out. Riding shotgun w Matthews I expect the strong (recent) production to continue

 

[ole ole]

This. Nylander has been creating tons of chances, the bounces are now just starting to level out. Riding shotgun w Matthews I expect the strong (recent) production to continue

He'd be the 10 best point wise player on the Habs this season and wouldn't have a Matthews or Tavaras to ride shotgun with to help inflate his stats.

 

[Liferleafer]

He'd be the 10 best point wise player on the Habs this season and wouldn't have a Matthews or Tavaras to ride shotgun with to help inflate his stats.

Who cares? He's a young 2 time 60+ point winger on the 5th place team in the NHL...nobody gives a shit about his stats compared to a team sitting outside of the playoffs. If people did care about things like that, i would point out that we have a Dman with more points than ANY Habs player....

 

[ole ole]

Who cares? He's a young 2 time 60+ point winger on the 5th place team in the NHL...nobody gives a **** about his stats compared to a team sitting outside of the playoffs.

Seems like a lot give a shit considering there are 382 post in this thread.383 after this one.
He's also a 21 pt forward on that 5th place team.

 

[chethejet]

Leafs are in a tough position as to signing all the skilled guys. Maybe a couple prospects come through on D and are cap friendly. But for me, he may bring in the top RH D man who will make a material difference in the Leafs roster.

 

[mitchthemitch]

Leafs are in a tough position as to signing all the skilled guys. Maybe a couple prospects come through on D and are cap friendly. But for me, he may bring in the top RH D man who will make a material difference in the Leafs roster.

I think that as well. The way his contract is set up would make sense. But after what he said about Dubas promising not to trade him I don't know. Something's not adding up.

 

[Liferleafer]

Seems like a lot give a **** considering there are 382 post in this thread.383 after this one.
He's also a 21 pt forward on that 5th place team.

Oh you misunderstood my post...yes, people do care about discussing Nylander....as the thread title would suggest. They don't give a flying f*** however, how Nylander's stats look in comparison to the Habs....why would they?

Oh, and yes...he's a 21 point forward on the 5th place team in the league, is that supposed to bother me?

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Leafs are in a tough position as to signing all the skilled guys. Maybe a couple prospects come through on D and are cap friendly. But for me, he may bring in the top RH D man who will make a material difference in the Leafs roster.

Not exactly. The Leafs can sign everyone of their RFAs. But they won't be able to RETAIN all their current players. A retired Marleau makes the cap a lot easier, other wise it's about 7 m elsewhere that has to go.

DelusionalLeafsFan above: Don't put an credence what a GM, player or coach says in public. It's meaningless. Now what Dubas said to Nylander privately has meaning, but we will never know what he said.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I think that as well. The way his contract is set up would make sense. But after what he said about Dubas promising not to trade him I don't know. Something's not adding up.

Part of the Leafs' organizational culture now is heavy bonuses for their good players. Toronto can afford it and will leverage that ability for whatever positive effect it has on contract negotiations (I'm not sure it has much of one, but that's a different discussion).

It just may be a case of Dubas having a different view of team building than conventional wisdom. Teams have won with a strong forward group and an average defense before (Carolina 2006, Pittsburgh 2009, Pittsburgh 2017). Perhaps that's what he's looking at.

 

[Liferleafer]

Part of the Leafs' organizational culture now is heavy bonuses for their good players. Toronto can afford it and will leverage that ability for whatever positive effect it has on contract negotiations (I'm not sure it has much of one, but that's a different discussion).

It just may be a case of Dubas having a different view of team building than conventional wisdom. Teams have won with a strong forward group and an average defense before (Carolina 2006, Pittsburgh 2009, Pittsburgh 2017). Perhaps that's what he's looking at.

The problem precedes Dubas...the last few drafts were forward heavy (Matthews/Marner/Nylander) and Dubas didn't make those picks...his 1st draft was Sandin. I think he understands the D needs significant help, he addressed it somewhat with Muzzin, but the cost of acquiring solid NHL Dmen is high...there wasn't much he could do. Next season will be a very interesting one defensively speaking, because right now we are looking at:

Rielly-??
Muzzin-Dermott
??-Zaitsev

We need all of Sandin/Rosen/Liljegren to develop into top 4D, and we know Dubas is trying to move Zaitsev....

 

[mitchthemitch]

The problem precedes Dubas...the last few drafts were forward heavy (Matthews/Marner/Nylander) and Dubas didn't make those picks...his 1st draft was Sandin. I think he understands the D needs significant help, he addressed it somewhat with Muzzin, but the cost of acquiring solid NHL Dmen is high...there wasn't much he could do. Next season will be a very interesting one defensively speaking, because right now we are looking at:

Rielly-??
Muzzin-Dermott
??-Zaitsev

We need all of Sandin/Rosen/Liljegren to develop into top 4D, and we know Dubas is trying to move Zaitsev....

I say Zaitsev on that top pair with Reilly, he has to be an upgrade over hainsey. and then rosen-lili thrid pair

 

[TBF1972]

I say Zaitsev on that top pair with Reilly, he has to be an upgrade over hainsey.

Please not. If he sucks their again, we will get trade proposals for a cheap first pair RHD.

 

[Menzinger]

I think that as well. The way his contract is set up would make sense. But after what he said about Dubas promising not to trade him I don't know. Something's not adding up.

The contract was structured to give the Leafs flexibility.

Dubas’ words and actions identify Nylander as one of his core players, so I wouldn’t bet on him being traded. But if push ever comes to shove the contract is definitely attractive to potential suitors

 

[HoweHullOrr]

The problem precedes Dubas...the last few drafts were forward heavy (Matthews/Marner/Nylander) and Dubas didn't make those picks...his 1st draft was Sandin. I think he understands the D needs significant help, he addressed it somewhat with Muzzin, but the cost of acquiring solid NHL Dmen is high...there wasn't much he could do. Next season will be a very interesting one defensively speaking, because right now we are looking at:

Rielly-??
Muzzin-Dermott
??-Zaitsev

We need all of Sandin/Rosen/Liljegren to develop into top 4D, and we know Dubas is trying to move Zaitsev....

Would agree with the above. Lil and Sandin stepping up and filling holes would be the ideal solution. Those ELCs on D are what we could afford given our cap situation. Other solutions will be more disruptive and have far greater implications for our roster. How far we go next year could heavily depend on that.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

He'd be the 10 best point wise player on the Habs this season and wouldn't have a Matthews or Tavaras to ride shotgun with to help inflate his stats.

He hasn't played with either of those guys for most of the season.

 

[Liferleafer]

I say Zaitsev on that top pair with Reilly, he has to be an upgrade over hainsey. and then rosen-lili thrid pair

First thing that comes to mind when i read the bolded...

 

[TheDoldrums]

It just may be a case of Dubas having a different view of team building than conventional wisdom. Teams have won with a strong forward group and an average defense before (Carolina 2006, Pittsburgh 2009, Pittsburgh 2017). Perhaps that's what he's looking at.

Obviously a team like the Leafs has their own in-house analytics so it's tough to make absolute declarations, but I've always thought it makes sense to focus on forwards. The studies I've seen shown they typically impact the game more than defensemen and I think they're more predictable year over year. So I'm not against the strategy of putting a disproportionate amount of resources into the forward group. I compare it to baseball, where a lot of analytics teams (specifically the Cubs and Astros rebuilds) realized the most effective and predictable way to contend was to get as many good young hitters as possible.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The contract was structured to give the Leafs flexibility.

Dubas’ words and actions identify Nylander as one of his core players, so I wouldn’t bet on him being traded. But if push ever comes to shove the contract is definitely attractive to potential suitors

Exactly. No GM can guarantee that they won't trade a player ever. His contract, IMO, is very desirable to another team after his bonus is paid next year. Who wouldn't want Nylander for $700K next year (after his bonus is paid) and then $6M / year for the next 4 years. Yeah, he's struggled this year but every GM in the league knows that Nylander is a very skilled, 60+ point player with potential for more. Nobody would base value of this partial season where he held out.

Now, if a fan/GM doesn't want to give as much value because of the holdout or they think he's a prima donna, then that's their prerogative, but on ice, they know what he's capable of.

I'd take him on the Canes any day, but I don't think the Leafs will be moving him any time soon.

 

[bukwas]

I say Zaitsev on that top pair with Reilly, he has to be an upgrade over hainsey. and then rosen-lili thrid pair

He's fine on the 2nd pair. 1st pair is above his level, though in a pinch he's not an awful option. Somebody suggested 3rd pair (kind of silly) but it would mean the Leafs have one helluva strong D group which i can't see them being able to afford.

 

[joe dirte]

Avoiding what? I have no idea what Hans is.

If you are referring to the Habs, they are 8 points up on the teams that are missing the playoff mark. That is near insurmountable for teams to catch the Habs.

Did i mention the Habs are 1 pt behind the Leafs?

You have some real hot takes.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

and we know Dubas is trying to move Zaitsev....

Zaitsev + W.Nylander for Ristolainen + A.Nylander.

Let's do it.