TSN: Wideman suspension reduced to 10 games by neutral arbitrator

Flames Fanatic · Jun 8, 2016

Calculon said:

Oh ffs who the hell cares anymore.

Anglesmith · Jun 8, 2016

Calculon said:

How odd. In that document, it claims that the NDA is only able to overturn the decision if he feels there was a lack of evidence provided for the initial decision. Based on memory, wasn't the NDA's whole premise based on the NHL not having evidence of its claims?

Flames Fanatic said:
Oh ffs who the hell cares anymore.

It's probably just politics, as it has been all along. The league's pandering to the referee union necessitated that they levy the 20 game sentence in the first place, and necessitates that they fight anyone saying it wasn't just.

Ace Rimmer · Jun 8, 2016

The only reason for this (IMO) is to test the waters regarding the Neutral Discipline Arbitrator's authority.

Also, legal statements in the US are similar to those in Canada, but there are some differences that made me say "lolwut?"

Calgareee · Jun 9, 2016

Anglesmith said:
How odd. In that document, it claims that the NDA is only able to overturn the decision if he feels there was a lack of evidence provided for the initial decision. Based on memory, wasn't the NDA's whole premise based on the NHL not having evidence of its claims?

It's probably just politics, as it has been all along. The league's pandering to the referee union necessitated that they levy the 20 game sentence in the first place, and necessitates that they fight anyone saying it wasn't just.

Yah you're right. The whole issue with the NHL's case was that they had to establish intent to issue the 20 games and in this situation it's essentially impossible to prove.

moon* · Jun 9, 2016

Anglesmith said:
It's probably just politics, as it has been all along. The league's pandering to the referee union necessitated that they levy the 20 game sentence in the first place, and necessitates that they fight anyone saying it wasn't just.

I don't think it is politics and certainly at this point has nothing to do with the Refs union, although I don't think it ever did to start with. They went for the 20 games and fought it all the way I would think they have done enough for the refs if that was ever a concern.

This has to do with the NHL vs. NHLPA and trying to set the precident in terms of suspensions and arbitrators. Like the Deflategate issue with the NFL, the actual act and players involved is secondary to the league wanting to have the ability to set its own punishments and have the upper hand when going to the arbitrator.

This is 100% NHL vs. NHLPA and the NHL going forward wants to be able to say GB has total authority to make suspensions and the arbitrator ruling puts some doubt in that right now.

Anglesmith · Jun 9, 2016

Hap said:
I don't think it is politics and certainly at this point has nothing to do with the Refs union, although I don't think it ever did to start with. They went for the 20 games and fought it all the way I would think they have done enough for the refs if that was ever a concern.

This has to do with the NHL vs. NHLPA and trying to set the precident in terms of suspensions and arbitrators. Like the Deflategate issue with the NFL, the actual act and players involved is secondary to the league wanting to have the ability to set its own punishments and have the upper hand when going to the arbitrator.

This is 100% NHL vs. NHLPA and the NHL going forward wants to be able to say GB has total authority to make suspensions and the arbitrator ruling puts some doubt in that right now.

Yep, I agree. I had that in mind when I was saying 'politics' as well. It's a matter of principle. Kind of silly when you think about it. They allow for there to be a non-biased arbitrator to appeal to, but based on this lawsuit they really, really resent that.

Bosnian Beast · Jun 9, 2016

Ace Rimmer said:
The only reason for this (IMO) is to test the waters regarding the Neutral Discipline Arbitrator's authority.

Also, legal statements in the US are similar to those in Canada, but there are some differences that made me say "lolwut?"

Deebz and I were talking a bit about that last night. I wonder if the NHL suing the PA for (at least how it appears) appealing in the first case is something the league considers a loophole on this? I also think this gets thrown out simply because of the requirement of the NHL and NHLPA to respect the decision of the arbitrator in the case (theoretically, anyway).

To quote Deebz, "I can't wait to lose another season to a lockout [or strike]."

Ace Rimmer · Jun 9, 2016

Re-reading it, its like Bettman is channeling his inner Cartman...

Anglesmith · Jul 20, 2016

So, in yet another twist, the league has fired the arbitrator: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-dismisses-neutral-arbitrator-dennis-wideman-case/

This just gets more and more fishy from the league. Watching that video, Bettman talks with a gleeful grin about how much time they made Wideman miss during the appeal process while talking about, essentially, firing the arbitrator because they didn't agree with him. I don't know how anyone can take this any other way than the NHL is not comfortable having anything less than full control over discipline.

Flames Fanatic · Jul 20, 2016

Just gonna leave this here:

LadyStanley said:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-dismisses-neutral-arbitrator-dennis-wideman-case/

NHL dismisses neutral arbitrator that adjudicated Wideman case.

As I said in the Business thread, I stopped caring a long time ago about the whole debacle.

It sets a dangerous precedence here though. Disagree with the NHL and you are gone.

Anglesmith · Jul 20, 2016

Flames Fanatic said:
Just gonna leave this here:

As I said in the Business thread, I stopped caring a long time ago about the whole debacle.

It sets a dangerous precedence here though. Disagree with the NHL and you are gone.

It's super weird that the NHL has the power to fire the person who objectively evaluates their decisions. Where else do you see that?

If an arbitrator ever overturns Bettman's decision, it is an inevitability that they are going to disagree over the matter. Otherwise there wouldn't be anything overturned. But if that's a fireable offence, how in the hell is an arbitrator supposed to do his job? I hope he has legal recourse to file a grievance here.

Flames Fanatic · Jul 20, 2016

Anglesmith said:
It's super weird that the NHL has the power to fire the person who objectively evaluates their decisions. Where else do you see that?

If an arbitrator ever overturns Bettman's decision, it is an inevitability that they are going to disagree over the matter. Otherwise there wouldn't be anything overturned. But if that's a fireable offence, how in the hell is an arbitrator supposed to do his job? I hope he has legal recourse to file a grievance here.

Not to mention the PA is going to be up in arms that their legal right to an Arbitrator seems to be an empty promise.

Anglesmith · Jul 20, 2016

Flames Fanatic said:
Not to mention the PA is going to be up in arms that their legal right to an Arbitrator seems to be an empty promise.

Yeah. The next applicant to the job will now know the standard expected. The NHL accepts any decision from the arbitrator, so long as it agrees with Mr. Bettman.

InfinityIggy · Jul 20, 2016

Nobody likes a sore loser, Gary.

Snazu · Jul 20, 2016

InfinityIggy said:
Nobody likes a sore loser, Gary.

especially the guy that just got fired by one

Ace Rimmer · Jul 20, 2016

So the NHL having full control over discipline is why we'll have another work stoppage I guess.

Lovely.

Johnny Hoxville · Jul 20, 2016

On the Fan today, Kerr touched on this. He said it's actually very common that in various pro sports, league officials will fire their arbitrators in situations like this. Apparently it happens often, the Evil Empire lives on.

Bouma Fett* · Jul 20, 2016

It's stuff like this that makes me want to abandon the NHL more and more. Such a bush league sometimes. I'm still standing by what I've said in the past. If there's another lockout causing missed games I'm done with the league. I'm getting sick of them knowing it doesn't matter because the fans will come desperately crawling back because hockey's back.

I'm starting to follow juniors and the NHL more and more each year in possible preparation for this

Lunatik · Jul 20, 2016

Actually it is completely normal for an arbitrator to be let go like this, both sides have the power to do it and after the PA lost the Kovalchuk arbitration they dismissed that arbitrator. They essentially have no choice because they believe they are understanding the CBA differently and in this case in particular since the NHL is taking further legal steps it would look bad for their lawsuit if they did keep him on.

Anglesmith · Jul 21, 2016

100 Third Graders said:
Actually it is completely normal for an arbitrator to be let go like this, both sides have the power to do it and after the PA lost the Kovalchuk arbitration they dismissed that arbitrator. They essentially have no choice because they believe they are understanding the CBA differently and in this case in particular since the NHL is taking further legal steps it would look bad for their lawsuit if they did keep him on.

Yeah, now that I heard that this is standard procedure, it's less of a big deal. It's just like their attempt to have the decision vacated. At the end of the day, they either have to take every measure at their disposal, including firing an employee who just did his job, because anything less makes it look like they don't have a great deal of conviction.

tmurfin · Jul 21, 2016

NHL gon' NHL. A groups looking to build an arena and get a WHL team into my town, hopefully it gets done before the next lockout.

Bouma Fett* · Jul 21, 2016

tmurfin said:
NHL gon' NHL. A groups looking to build an arena and get a WHL team into my town, hopefully it gets done before the next lockout.

Good luck on that. I love going to Hitmen games. Can't afford NHL tickets, juniors are really reasonably priced, and still tons of fun

InfinityIggy · Jul 21, 2016

Bouma Fett said:
Good luck on that. I love going to Hitmen games. Can't afford NHL tickets, juniors are really reasonably priced, and still tons of fun

There are some aspects of WHL hockey that I think are way better than NHL hockey. Physicality being the primary one.

Lunatik · Jul 21, 2016

I wished I lived in a city with a real WHL team

TSN: Wideman suspension reduced to 10 games by neutral arbitrator

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