Why retooling is the best option for the Habs

[Habs Halifax]

I disagree. We have plenty of depth. In fact depth is all we have up front. What we lack are the two centers who can SCORE.

The defense is a bit thin on the left side. We really need someone to play with Weber.

Good post! Our team is not doomed. A retool with an improved prospect pool will put us in a better situation. We can still reinforce our prospect pool and improve our lineup for next year at the same time.

Also. Price is hard to move. We need to let the cap grow and for Price to rebound. He may never be the same guy but probability says he’s much better moving forward vs this past year.

Retool but also target grade A type prospects. That’s what I support. A complete rebuild is harder than most realize. They think about how the Pens won vs how so many teams have failed

 

[CHfan1]

Simply don’t agree. The major moves in my eyes make us better. We complain about not being able to score. Drouin helps us more than Sergachev does. Especially if he was put on the wing with a actual centr. I’m exhausted having the Subban/Weber debate. But not everyone is upset that they made that trade and not everyone shares your opinion. Arguments can be made on both sides so you can’t just say Bergevin made the team worse with every major move he made, is just an opinion which is usually based only on being upset about Subban being moved

Collectively his moves have made this team worse.

2013-2014 lost in 3rd round
2014-2015 lost in 2nd round
2015-2016 missed playoffs (Price only played 12 games)
2016-2017 lost in first round
2017-2018 missed playoffs, finished 4th last, set a team record for getting shutout. One of the worst prospect pools in the NHL.

It’s been a downward trend for awhile now.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

Simply don’t agree. The major moves in my eyes make us better. We complain about not being able to score. Drouin helps us more than Sergachev does. Especially if he was put on the wing with a actual centr. I’m exhausted having the Subban/Weber debate. But not everyone is upset that they made that trade and not everyone shares your opinion. Arguments can be made on both sides so you can’t just say Bergevin made the team worse with every major move he made, is just an opinion which is usually based only on being upset about Subban being moved

Well the Subban/Weber debate is pretty much settled at this point. I think Drouin is garbage and Sergachev is exactly the type of puck moving left handed dman we'll be chasing in the next few years. But I'll leave this one "arguable" for now altho the future should settle this one convincingly too. Other MB blunders include:

- Alzner
- Shaw
- Price contract
- Markov/Radulov (I dont care much about them but I guess if MBs goal was to not tank he should have signed them)
- Having set up mediocre scouting and development staff which mostly consists of his countryclub buddies
- Disastrous 2016 and 2018 seasons. Hope revolves around attracting superstar UFAs and making imaginary lineups... thats a sign of a franchise going downhill.

But THIS summer he will fix everything, right ?

 

[Draft]

Okay, I'm going to magically give you Ryan O'Reilly. Where do you think that gets us?

I think it gets the Habs within one or two steps of being a top team for the next ~4yrs.

The young, cheap, and skilled forward depth is there (Scherbak, Hudon, Lehkonen), the elite goalie, the #1 defenceman, potentially 4 wingers (Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Drouin) that can hit 30g and/or 60pts, extremely promising young defenceman (Mete, Juulsen), a top-7 pick in the draft, and an experienced coach that has been widely regarded as one of the best in the league.

Gloomy season, but the pieces are there if the Habs can fix the center problem. Not quite time to pull the plug IMO.

 

[Draft]

The whole point of a rebuild is to draft 15 players per year for 3 years (6-7 first rounders) and to rebuild the prospect depth.

.... which would still leave the Habs scraping the bottom of the barrel for the next three years +. Stick with the elite talent while you have it - we're lucky to have some of the players we do.

 

[Runner77]

Well the Subban/Weber debate is pretty much settled at this point. I think Drouin is garbage and Sergachev is exactly the type of puck moving left handed dman we'll be chasing in the next few years. But I'll leave this one "arguable" for now altho the future should settle this one convincingly too. Other MB blunders include:

- Alzner
- Shaw
- Price contract
- Markov/Radulov (I dont care much about them but I guess if MBs goal was to not tank he should have signed them)
- Having set up mediocre scouting and development staff which mostly consists of his countryclub buddies
- Disastrous 2016 and 2018 seasons. Hope revolves around attracting superstar UFAs and making imaginary lineups... thats a sign of a franchise going downhill.

But THIS summer he will fix everything, right ?

The plan is all premised on luck and everything going right.

He needs to win the lottery. Apparently, our odds are so good that we can afford to ignore other teams with better odds than we have.

If he doesn't land the first overall pick, he needs to draft the right player. And then he's going to hope and pray that his country club friends don't screw up the boatload of picks they own this year.

Once he's done that, he apparently is going to beat out 30 other teams to land Tavares, who is going to want nothing to do with the quagmire he created.

Don't you know, he's grown special abilities that he didn't have in the prior 6 off seasons.

 

[habs73]

I just hope Bergevin doesn't do something dumb with the picks he has this year. No short term fixes sacrificing the possible future of the team....trading of future 1st round picks

If Molson won't remove him, please get some common sense and appoint someone above him that will stop him from making the kind of moves that the flames made last offseason...trading their 1st and 2nd round pick.

Its time for the Habs to realize where they are and properly build for the future!

 

[Runner77]

Bergevin trading picks and making short term moves is exactly what we should expect given that he has two aging players in Weber and Price and cannot afford to boot this forward.

Plus, he's on a short leash and he's being asked to "reset". What's in it for him, making moves that might benefit the team when he won't be around to see them?

Those hoping to see us building through the draft may be sadly disappointed.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Actually this summer is our chance. Not last summer. The cap space, picks and having Pacioretty as a trade chip, as well as the biggest centre target we could possibly get our hands on is set to become a free agent. This is the summer where the habs can make things happen and I strongly believe they will

So we're going to trade Paccioretty to another team so we can get another prime scorer? How is that going to work?

It's over. Blow it up.

 

[montreal]

Bergevin trading picks and making short term moves is exactly what we should expect given that he has two aging players in Weber and Price and cannot afford to boot this forward.

Plus, he's on a short leash and he's being asked to "reset". What's in it for him, making moves that might benefit the team when he won't be around to see them?

Those hoping to see us building through the draft may be sadly disappointed.

agreed and that's what many are scared of when cheap ass Molson didn't fire MB after such a disaster of a season. It's very troubling to think just how much more damage may be done.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

agreed and that's what many are scared of when cheap ass Molson didn't fire MB after such a disaster of a season. It's very troubling to think just how much more damage may be done.

Was Molson being cheap or was it that he didn't want to call attention to the fact that MB was in year one of a deal he signed two years ago? I'm not sure if it was the money or just not wanting to call attention to how stupid he was.

 

[Garbageyuk]

A complete rebuild is harder than most realize. They think about how the Pens won vs how so many teams have failed

Pens, Hawks, Kings, Bolts; teams from this list have been involved in 9 out of the last 10 Stanley Cup Finals, and the first three have won 8 out of the last 10 Stanley Cups. All did a complete rebuild. That's how you win in the salary cap era. Tampa hasn't won yet, but they are contenders every spring, and they may very well pull it off this year. You can point to failed rebuilds, but it doesn't change this fact: if your goal is to win the Cup, then rebuilding is how you get to be competitive in the salary cap era. The numbers don't lie. If your goal is to "make da playoff; any ting can appen", then I guess a 'retool' will suffice.

 

[mariolemieux66]

.... which would still leave the Habs scraping the bottom of the barrel for the next three years +. Stick with the elite talent while you have it - we're lucky to have some of the players we do.

Elite talent!?
Price as had 8 lower body injuries and 2 concussions. He's 31 sign for 8 years 10.5mil.
Weber is 33 coming off a major foot surgery and already on the decline. He's signed for the next 8 years at 7.86mil.
Pacioretty is UFA at the end of next season and will probably be looking for at least 6.5mil for the next 6+ years. He's coming off his worst season, but has reached 30 goals in 5 of his last 7 seasons. There is no reasons at this point to keep Pacioretty without a elite center.
We have 3 elite players with a lack of playoffs production not only in offensive output, but they also dont come out big when it matters the most. I wont call then winners! I want winners! We had a winner and we traded him!!!

In the non elite but good player.
Drouin hasn't reached the elite level yet and might never will. He is lacking work ethic and in the NHL it's what will hold him back.
Gallagher just had the best season of his career, but with the type of hockey he is playing, who knows how long he will be effective for.
Glachenyuk has showed some improvement and coaching need to start giving him more than 16 minutes of AOTI, Galchenyuk should get Drouin's icetime and vice versa.
Petry is our only puck moving dmen that can also net 10 goals a season. He's also turning 31, he is soft and a doesn't show up much in the playoffs.
I like Byron's tenacity, but Byron is a 3rd liner playing 2nd line minutes, he's also small player, which we already have too many of. Those are our best players.

Let's just say we draft Dahlin, sign Tavares and Stastny or trade for O'Reilly and a we get an offensive dmen with a winger and draft picks, we will have to fit it under the cap this year and will only have next year to win the cup, because next year you have 2 UFA and 4 RFAs. It will be hard to dress a competive team, since we dont have the young talent at on a ELC coming in and making a difference, none unless we draft Seschnikov who might take 3 to 4 years before having an impact.
How is this team beating Pittsburgh, Winnipeg, Nashville, Boston, Tampa Bay and even Vegas? I think we have 1 shot next year, but after there will be long years of disappointment.

Do the right and only logical thing and Blow it all up! I am sick of the identify of the team, its rotten and it stinks!

Yes it will be tough to watch the next 5 years, but at least we will have the excitement of following our next few drafts and the development of our young players. It also has been proven that it works.

Shit!
Happy 4/20 everyone

 

[Runner77]

Let's just say we draft Dahlin, sign Tavares and Stastny or trade for O'Reilly and a we get an offensive dmen
****!
Happy 4/20 everyone

I'd rather spend time on the originators of 4/20: 420 Waldos, 4/20 Origin, Four Twenty

At least, these guys are for real.

Pass the bong when you're done, lol.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Bergevin trading picks and making short term moves is exactly what we should expect given that he has two aging players in Weber and Price and cannot afford to boot this forward.

Plus, he's on a short leash and he's being asked to "reset". What's in it for him, making moves that might benefit the team when he won't be around to see them?

Those hoping to see us building through the draft may be sadly disappointed.

Exactly. Bergevin is going to try to save his own ass above all else. It is going to get ugly. He is just getting started. Dark days ahead I'm afraid.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Retool but also target grade A type prospects. That’s what I support.

Target them with what? What do we have to trade that can net us 'grade A' prospects?

 

[mariolemieux66]

Elite talent!?
Price as had 8 lower body injuries and 2 concussions. He's 31 sign for 8 years 10.5mil.
Weber is 33 coming off a major foot surgery and already on the decline. He's signed for the next 8 years at 7.86mil.
Pacioretty is UFA at the end of next season and will probably be looking for at least 6.5mil for the next 6+ years. He's coming off his worst season, but has reached 30 goals in 5 of his last 7 seasons. There is no reasons at this point to keep Pacioretty without a elite center.
We have 3 elite players with a lack of playoffs production not only in offensive output, but they also dont come out big when it matters the most. I wont call then winners! I want winners! We had a winner and we traded him!!!

In the non elite but good player.
Drouin hasn't reached the elite level yet and might never will. He is lacking work ethic and in the NHL it's what will hold him back.
Gallagher just had the best season of his career, but with the type of hockey he is playing, who knows how long he will be effective for.
Glachenyuk has showed some improvement and coaching need to start giving him more than 16 minutes of AOTI, Galchenyuk should get Drouin's icetime and vice versa.
Petry is our only puck moving dmen that can also net 10 goals a season. He's also turning 31, he is soft and a doesn't show up much in the playoffs.
I like Byron's tenacity, but Byron is a 3rd liner playing 2nd line minutes, he's also small player, which we already have too many of. Those are our best players.

Let's just say we draft Dahlin, sign Tavares and Stastny or trade for O'Reilly and a we get an offensive dmen with a winger and draft picks, we will have to fit it under the cap this year and will only have next year to win the cup, because next year you have 2 UFA and 4 RFAs. It will be hard to dress a competive team, since we dont have the young talent at on a ELC coming in and making a difference, none unless we draft Seschnikov who might take 3 to 4 years before having an impact.
How is this team beating Pittsburgh, Winnipeg, Nashville, Boston, Tampa Bay and even Vegas? I think we have 1 shot next year, but after there will be long years of disappointment.

Do the right and only logical thing and Blow it all up! I am sick of the identify of the team, its rotten and it stinks!

Yes it will be tough to watch the next 5 years, but at least we will have the excitement of following our next few drafts and the development of our young players. It also has been proven that it works.

****!
Happy 4/20 everyone

I will need to check it out.

 

[Runner77]

I will need to check it out.

Wait a minute ... you just quoted yourself and promised yourself to check it out?

 

[Per Sjoblom]

Wait a minute ... you just quoted yourself and promised yourself to check it out?

Celebrating the 4/20 holiday too much me thinks.

All the rec places had 20% off on all merchandise in Portland while I went online and got 40% off..

 

[groovejuice]

****!
Happy 4/20 everyone

 

[mariolemieux66]

Black licorice flavor is good.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I think it gets the Habs within one or two steps of being a top team for the next ~4yrs.

The young, cheap, and skilled forward depth is there (Scherbak, Hudon, Lehkonen), the elite goalie, the #1 defenceman, potentially 4 wingers (Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Drouin) that can hit 30g and/or 60pts, extremely promising young defenceman (Mete, Juulsen), a top-7 pick in the draft, and an experienced coach that has been widely regarded as one of the best in the league.

Gloomy season, but the pieces are there if the Habs can fix the center problem. Not quite time to pull the plug IMO.

So, one of those wingers you think is going to hit 30 goals and 60 points was playing center for us this year, and he hit 46 points. He's furthermore never had more than 53 points, including when he was playing about 3 minutes per game on this powerplay:

Moreover, an elite goaltender is nothing. All the top teams have good enough goaltending to nullify any advantage that Carey Price gives us, and that's actually assuming he bounces back. The main reason why I didn't want to re-sign Price is because he's just not worth that salary unless he's 2014-15 Carey. The number one D has his best years behind him and was never able to accomplish anything in the playoffs.

That leads us to the holes that are still in the lineup. So, assuming Price rebounds, and assuming Weber's foot is alright, all of LD is a question mark, and even when given ROR by magic, we still have a gaping hole at 2C. But we had to give something to get ROR. What do you think that would be? It would absolutely include our first, which means that ROR better be enough on his own, because the cavalry is not about to arrive any time soon: neither by trade, to plug the holes in the lineup, nor by draft.

When is it time to pull the plug? When you have absolutely no good players left on the roster?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Target them with what? What do we have to trade that can net us 'grade A' prospects?

Our next pick? Trade Patch for another 1st. Our two early 2nd round picks. Picks we get next year? It’s not rocket science

 

[Tighthead]

Target them with what? What do we have to trade that can net us 'grade A' prospects?

Outside the box thinking.

 

[BLONG7]

Bergevin trading picks and making short term moves is exactly what we should expect given that he has two aging players in Weber and Price and cannot afford to boot this forward.

Plus, he's on a short leash and he's being asked to "reset". What's in it for him, making moves that might benefit the team when he won't be around to see them?

Those hoping to see us building through the draft may be sadly disappointed.

6 yrs later..........he is talking again, about building through the draft...he said it six yrs ago, to control the expectations...and then he did not follow through on HIS plan...and now we are to expect he will do that, all the while, his neck is in a noose.