Why is all of Canada celebrating????

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Yann

Registered User
Apr 4, 2007
631
2
Ontario
You want to know why Canadians are celebrating? Because they have had just about enough, enough of their game being stripped away from them to be given to the Americans, enough of the directors of the NHL trying to gain new fans BEFORE making the game interesting for the fans they currently have, enough of having 6 teams, against 24 when here we sell out, there they cant fill an arena regularly.

As a Canadian, i have had enough, all that seems to count for them is, get more fans even if the game suffers, it is wrong and disgusting, dumb.

By the way, I know there are some pretty hardcore american fans, and i respect you guys, but i think the NHL doesnt respect Canada, i think the US should have 18-22 teams, max. Because they dont have AS many hardcore fans

What I hate is how its simple, but they dont get it. Make it hte most entertaining you can and fun, bring the fans you already have to be more passionate and their passion will be way easier to catch on to others. If the thing itseld is happy and working people will be attracted to it.
 

Gnashville

HFBoards Hall of Famer
Jan 7, 2003
13,780
3,659
Crossville
You mean our mismanaged MLB team? The one that dispite having the money refuses to pay it's good players enough to actually stay with them and in turn has alienated it's patrons hense dropping attendence dramaticly? That one? The MLB attendence has nothing to do with the population.
On a side note your MLB team is about to get a huge boost if the Don't mess it up Vandy's David Price is a ace.
 

MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
4,067
0
Maroons Rd.
The Predators averaged 15259 fans this season
Florida did 15,370

I was referring to tickets purchased not "tickets distributed."

And as I said, MTS Centre in Winnipeg can be expanded. There are space for that. BTW, as of February 2007, the NHL's paid attendance average was less than 15,800.

GHOST
 

Levizk

Registered User
Feb 12, 2007
2,691
0
Monroeville, PA
You want to know why Canadians are celebrating? Because they have had just about enough, enough of their game being stripped away from them to be given to the Americans, enough of the directors of the NHL trying to gain new fans BEFORE making the game interesting for the fans they currently have, enough of having 6 teams, against 24 when here we sell out, there they cant fill an arena regularly.

This right here is the inherent problem. As a fan of the Penguins I view it as 1 against 29, this whole 6 against 24 thing is a ridiculous concept that many Canadians seem to hold. These aren't national teams who bring glory to the country they win for, they're just city based. The irony is if the Senators lose you'll be one of the people bragging next season about how a European captain has never won the cup, but if they win then it'll be some great victory for Canada because one city out of a hundred won the cup. Trust me if Anaheim wins the cup no one is going to say "Our 24 managed to beat their 6 again!", instead they're going to be saying "Well I hope our draft pick turns out good this year. Hopefully we'll be a contender next season.".
 
Feb 24, 2004
5,490
611
The Predators averaged 15259 fans this season
Florida did 15,370

No one is saying Florida is a good hockey market.

Flawed logic unfortunately...I support you guys because I'm a big believer in two wrongs dont make a right, but "Look at Florida" is not an appropriate response to "Nashville is a bad hockey market"
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
This right here is the inherent problem. As a fan of the Penguins I view it as 1 against 29, this whole 6 against 24 thing is a ridiculous concept that many Canadians seem to hold. These aren't national teams who bring glory to the country they win for, they're just city based. The irony is if the Senators lose you'll be one of the people bragging next season about how a European captain has never won the cup, but if they win then it'll be some great victory for Canada because one city out of a hundred won the cup. Trust me if Anaheim wins the cup no one is going to say "Our 24 managed to beat their 6 again!", instead they're going to be saying "Well I hope our draft pick turns out good this year. Hopefully we'll be a contender next season.".
Perhaps we should let my good friend Brian Burke explain the difference between hockey in Canada and hockey in the US of A. According to the Mouth That Roared:
"Hockey is not a sport in Canada. Everyone knows that. It's a religion. It's not going to change," said Burke, the former president/GM of the Canucks. "The coverage we get, while it's excellent, is obscure, camouflaged and often lost.

"It's different in Canada. First off, there's not a plethora of other teams to cover and there's that cult following of the game of hockey."
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
I was referring to tickets purchased not "tickets distributed."

And as I said, MTS Centre in Winnipeg can be expanded. There are space for that. BTW, as of February 2007, the NHL's paid attendance average was less than 15,800.

GHOST
You keep repeating this arena expansion spiel but I have yet to see anyone who knows the actual situation (eg. Mark Chipman) make any such claim.

HINT - Darren Ford of jetsowner.com is NOT a reliable source - nor is Eklund for that matter.
 

MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
4,067
0
Maroons Rd.
GHOST, when are you going to get it through your head? The number of "hockey fans" in an area is completely irrelevant. It is the number of hockey fans who are willing AND (most importantly) ABLE to plunk down actual money, and the number of corporate entities who are willing to do the same. It is in that area that the non-NHL Canadian markets are sadly wanting.

Damn it, I know you know better than this, but you persist still in raising what you know to be irrelevant points.

I do not agree that the number of hockey fans in an area is an irrelevant point at all. In fact, I think that your above comment is the most ridiculous I’ve read from you to date. I guess you’d think it’s a great marketing idea to try to sell Big Macs to Hindus or Jack Daniels to Mormons, rather NHL hockey to Canadian hockey fans!

Seriously, though, are you trying to say that an analysis of the demographics of a potential NHL market should not include an assessment of the number of hockey fans in the market as well as many other factors such as per capita disposable income, potential to create new NHL fans, likely corporate support, etc.? That seems to be what you are saying.

I’ll spell it out for you. If you have more hockey fans in an area, don't you think it would be more likely to find in that larger group a larger number of fans who are willing AND able to plunk down actual money? I gather there are more lawyers, doctors, accountants, dentists, engineers, owners of successful small businesses, architects, chiropractics, senior civil servants, law or business professors, investment professionals, etc., that are hockey fans in a market like Winnipeg than in some other market that has fewer hockey fans. These are the type of people - many of which do not work for large private corporations - that can afford to purchase tickets in the expensive lower bowl - those tickets that are not already acquired by large corporations. After the host of professionals or successful small business owners that do not work for large corporations, you have a huge contingent of people such as school teachers, tradesmen, unionized workers, restaurant managers and blue collar workers that are hockey fans. I’d venture a guess that that contingent alone would include tens of thousands of hockey fans in a city like Winnipeg. There job is to purchase tickets and game packages in the upper bowl. Then you have hundreds of thousands of others that are students, taxi drivers, waiters, hair dressers, clerks, amateur hockey players, recreational hockey players, etc., or casual hockey fans that get in on the excitement and go to the occasional game. Anyone can afford $40 or $50 to see a hockey game once in a while in a first world country like Canada, with the possible exception of a welfare recipient. The job of this latter group is to purchase the game day tickets. Finally, in a city with more hockey fans, wouldn’t it be more likely that more corporations would be interested in leasing luxury boxes and club seating, and wouldn’t they have more senior executives that were hockey fans that would enjoy the fringe benefit of attending games with their clients, friends or family?

That’s paid attendance. What about TV and radio broadcast rights fees? Wouldn’t it stand to reason that 100,000 or 200,000 watching an NHL team on a regional broadcast would be better from a business perspective than 10,000 or 20,000? That’s what is occurring in the NHL right now, with a market like Edmonton averaging a reported 157,000 audience for its regular season games versus many other markets that average 20,000 or lower. More eyeballs usually translates into more ad revenue which in turn usually translates into larger right fees (there are a few anomalies in the NHL such as the Islanders which we could discuss). What's the difference between a regional TV market like Edmonton’s and certain other markets with poor TV ratings? You guessed it: more hockey fans.

That’s regional TV ratings and broadcast fees. What about merchandise? When I was a child growing up in Winnipeg there were a huge number of kid that had a Jets jersey or two with their favorite players name and number on the back. Why do you think that is? You guessed it: more hockey fans that asked their parents for a new jersey for Christmas, their birthday, etc. Once again, more hockey fans = more revenue.

I think what you were trying to say is that the number of hockey fans does not matter because only the wealthy can attend hockey games and contribute to hockey revenue. That is just not true even with today’s expensive ticket prices.

BTW, in case you don’t know, the average household income in Winnipeg is close to 60,000 CAD or over 50,000 USD. And Winnipeg has one of the lowest home ownership costs (mortgage interest, principal payments, property taxes and utilities) in the country, and the lowest for any major city, representing only about 14 percent of average household income according to TD Economics as of August 2006. This translates into more disposable income to buy things such as hockey tickets.

Here are the comparable home ownership costs in Canada as a percentage of household income for other western Canadian cities:

Vancouver: 50%
Calgary: 24%
Edmonton: 18%

http://www.td.com/economics/special/housing_0806_pr.pdf

GHOST
 

Westguy13

Registered User
Apr 6, 2005
1,524
0
Not KC...
On a side note your MLB team is about to get a huge boost if the Don't mess it up Vandy's David Price is a ace.

Yeah he'll be good for alittle while then when he really starts looking good he'll go to the Yankees or somewhere where managment will acutally give him money and they will suck agian. Thats exactly why people here don't watch the Royals anymore. See Carlos Beltran, Jermaine Dye, Kevin Appier, Johnny Damon.
 
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Alpine

Registered User
Oct 28, 2005
2,150
2
Moncton, NB
"Why is all of Canada celebrating?"
Because it's hockey and it's the finals and a Canadian based team is in the finals.
We could probably replace the Maple Leaf on the flag with the Stanley Cup and there wouldn't be much argument.
But mostly because we feel the Stanley Cup's home is in Canada and it's been visiting a foreign land way too long.
Don't ask for logical reasons, it's an emotional thing.
 

MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
4,067
0
Maroons Rd.
You keep repeating this arena expansion spiel but I have yet to see anyone who knows the actual situation (eg. Mark Chipman) make any such claim.

HINT - Darren Ford of jetsowner.com is NOT a reliable source - nor is Eklund for that matter.

Chipman has stated it on radio broadcasts as have others in Winnipeg. I'll see if I can find a link and post it in the Return of the Jets thread, although I doubt that would convince you. I'm sure it's actually already posted in that thread, so maybe you could find it yourself if you are truly interested.

GHOST
 

bodybreak

Whiteshell Wild
Jul 11, 2006
1,452
0
Yesterday on a local sports show here in Nashville a guy from Canada called bragging about the Predators moving there. He said "now you know Americans how it feels to lose a team". Please explain the revenge factor involved in the Preds moving and the Hate directed at Nashville (since we came into the league). Yes the Jets and Nords did move to the US. Both were gone before the Preds even existed. It's like you want to stick it to America with us leaving. Why??? Us Nashville fans did nothing to Canada other than accept your national sport and learn to love it like you do. I mean no one here celebrated when the Expos moved to Washington. Even when the Girzzlies moved most people in Nashville did not care. Most fans feel sympathy for the fans of teams that move not rub it in their face. It's really very classless to do so. Honoring Balsillie as a "hero" in Edmonton makes no sense to me.

Also "be careful what you wish for you may get it" this could set a dangerous precedent with the NHL breaking the 7 year clause and allowing the team to be moved. A Billionaire in Houston may offer 220 mill for the Oilers in five years and use the "you allowed Balsillie to move after 1 season" thing when he wants to relocate (I think this almost happened one time). Yes the CN Dollar is strong but can you garentee that in 5 years??? Canada may gain the Preds but lose other teams if this happens. Did anyone ever think of that????

Plus why does Hamilton and Winnipeg not get critized for trying to steal teams?? I mean Hamilton tried to aquire the Jets in 96. Winnipeg tried to steal the Pens in 04. Yet KC is run through the ringer for doing the same thing.

Instead of going through all the whining and fighting in this thread, I just want to respond to the original post here.

What people in Canada are celebrating, is the fact that the NHL has finally publicly admitted that what it's done to Canada over the past years was a mistake. Let's hop in the time machine.

Salaries in pro sports were spiraling out of control. NFL and MLB salaries in particular were getting huge. Not to be outdone, NHL players started signing similar contracts. There was just one problem: the NHL was, and still is, a gate-driven league. While baseball and football stadiums can hold up to 60,000 fans, NHL attendances were typically one quarter of that. To compensate, teams started building "bohemoth" buildings, but even those could hold in the neighbourhood of 20,000 fans.

Owners soon felt in in their pocket books, and teams began to bleed oceans of red ink. The impact was especially felt in Canada. The country had 30 million people to the United States 300 million. (On a weekday, during regular business hours, there are more people in New York City than there are in Canada.) Canadian owners had to pay out salaries in American greenbacks, even though their major source of revenue -- ticket sales -- was coming in Canadian funds. That meant swallowing a 35 per cent discrepancy between money in and money out that teams south of the border didn't have to.

American superstar athletes, and the American economy, were fueling the demise of Canadian pro sports teams. Not just any sports teams, but the ones playing Canada's national sport. Eventually, owners in Winnipeg and Quebec were put up for sale, and it was widely believed more teams were to follow. Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa nearly found themselves in similar situations, but the league stepped in to over "equalization payments" to make up for the gap between the American and Canadian dollars.

Naturally, Winnipeg and Quebec felt gilted that the league stood idly by when their teams were in danger. In Winnipeg's case, the business community actually stepped up at the last possible moment to ensure the team wouldn't become the Minnesota Wild following the 1994/95 season. The group needed a new arena and capital to cover the losses that were plauging NHL teams at that time. The cost: $111 million. People across the province banded together to raise more than $13 million in just a few days. A deal was struck by the business group purchased part of the Jets for $32 million and also absorbed $23 million in debt. Ultimately, infighting in the ownership group and a power struggle between the new group and present owners resulted in the deal being dropped before the beginning of next season. The team was allowed to stay before becoming the Phoenix Coyotes in 1996.

What stung in Winnipeg, was the fact that the Coyotes continued to lose even more money than the Jets had in in their final season, but had owners who weren't bothered by this. "The NHL is a business now." That phrase was repeated to me time and time again by Phoenix fans. And they were right. The only numbers that mattered were on paychecks, not how many hockey fans were in your community.

To help make up for rising salary costs, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman had a plan to secure an national TV deal in the States, a major source of revenue for most major leagues in the country. This meant expanding the league to fit a "national footprint." Expansion teams were awarded, and massive "hockey education" programs launched in an effort to create a national fan base.

Canadians watched in disbelief as cities several times their size built fan bases sometimes comparable to theirs in size. Behind the scenes, minor hockey progams in these cities even started to grow. However, these teams still lost millions every year, but were guaranteed survival thanks to wealthy owners and the desires of the league.

It boggled the minds of Winnipeggers, who live in the city with the most hockey rinks per capita in the world. Their money-losing franchise had died, but several more money-losing franchises were born in the United States. It was a tough pill to swallow.

People in Canada aren't celebrating the possible agony that American NHL fans would suffer if they lose a team. Far from it. We feel your pain. We know how unfair it feels to lose a team due to circumstances beyond your control.

However, there is celebration in the fact that the NHL has admitted that they were wrong to leave and mistreat Canada. As saddening as it was to watch the perfect storm develop that nearly swept all but 3 of our NHL teams off the map, it's exhilirating to watch things balance out:

* Leaked NHL info is showing that revenue from Canadian teams are working heavily to prop up the league, which now depends on revenue sharing and salaries tied to revenues.
* The national American TV deal never materialized. Fans much prefered to watch their own team on local stations. The NHL doesn't get national rights money from NBC. Instead, it gets pre-empted for horse racing chatter.
* The Canadian dollar is at 94 cents American and is expected to hit par in the next couple of years.
* There have been rumblings for some time that American owners are getting fed up with absorbing losses, and will be willing to put their teams up for sale in the next few years.

A lot of these things have happened quite quickly, which has hockey fans north of the border VERY excited. In fact, the final point was rumour and speculation until the recent email and press conference from Craig Leopold. Because Nashville is the first team with a pending sale in place, their fans have wrongly been labeled as uncaring and been forced to bear some brutal insults.

I know what that's like. I went through all that stuff too. Even right now there are some individuals on HF (including a mod), who say that it's blasphemy to say anything bad about Nashville, but use those same fingers to criticize Winnipeg at every opportunity.

Just for the record, re. "stealing teams." Winnipeg has simply been in talks with the league to say that we're interested in a team. Those folks, the people who matter, don't care whether it's through relocation or expansion. Fans honestly don't care either. Sure, their excited at the psopect of maybe having a Pittsburgh or a Nashville, because they are AMAZING teams. Yes, our deputy mayor even wrote to Pittsburgh when there was a CHANCE they might move. That's what started the Winnipenguin hype, and now it's happening with Nashville, especially since Mr. Canadian Moneybags might end up with the team and the league is saying they don't want another Ontario team.

I trutly wish hockey fans in Nasvhille all the best. All year, I've been reading in The Hockey News about your great fans but lack of business support. I'm not sure what advice to offer, since buying season tickets isn't the same as getting corporate sponsorships out there, and it seems like no matter what promos and advertising approaches are taken, the number of corporate accounts still declines. I would urge anyone with a flex pack to upgrade to season tickets, as that's one thing a Preds rep mentioned to the media that was hurting the team -- the fact that they are iving and dying with the 12 game or 6 game pack (can't remember the exact number).

The other thing to remember to, is that the league will ultimately end up doing whatever it wants. It kept the Pens from being bought by the very same guy by attaching all sorts of requirements to the deal. They blocked the sale of the St. Louis Blues to people who would have moved the team to Saskatoon. They gave Ottawan and Florida an expansion team over Hamilton because of the pull the Maple Leafs have as a leading moneymaker in the league. This may work in your favour, it may not. I'm pretty skeptical, but that's only because I've seen this movie before, and the ending made me sick.

Good luck and be strong.
 

AgentNaslund*

Guest
literally a no brainer. Hamilton or Winnipeg will do far better then Nashville would. Those 2 cities will do alot better then alot of American markets. The team was solid because there is little to know hope in investing the team in Nashville anymore. Thats why its sold.

The Predators averaged 15259 fans this season
Florida did 15,370

ouch. nashville is one of the best teams in the leauge. Florida almost the opposite.
 

TRVIPERS

Registered User
Sep 26, 2006
264
0
Home of the Jets
Instead of going through all the whining and fighting in this thread, I just want to respond to the original post here.

What people in Canada are celebrating, is the fact that the NHL has finally publicly admitted that what it's done to Canada over the past years was a mistake. Let's hop in the time machine.

Salaries in pro sports were spiraling out of control. NFL and MLB salaries in particular were getting huge. Not to be outdone, NHL players started signing similar contracts. There was just one problem: the NHL was, and still is, a gate-driven league. While baseball and football stadiums can hold up to 60,000 fans, NHL attendances were typically one quarter of that. To compensate, teams started building "bohemoth" buildings, but even those could hold in the neighbourhood of 20,000 fans.

Owners soon felt in in their pocket books, and teams began to bleed oceans of red ink. The impact was especially felt in Canada. The country had 30 million people to the United States 300 million. (On a weekday, during regular business hours, there are more people in New York City than there are in Canada.) Canadian owners had to pay out salaries in American greenbacks, even though their major source of revenue -- ticket sales -- was coming in Canadian funds. That meant swallowing a 35 per cent discrepancy between money in and money out that teams south of the border didn't have to.

American superstar athletes, and the American economy, were fueling the demise of Canadian pro sports teams. Not just any sports teams, but the ones playing Canada's national sport. Eventually, owners in Winnipeg and Quebec were put up for sale, and it was widely believed more teams were to follow. Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa nearly found themselves in similar situations, but the league stepped in to over "equalization payments" to make up for the gap between the American and Canadian dollars.

Naturally, Winnipeg and Quebec felt gilted that the league stood idly by when their teams were in danger. In Winnipeg's case, the business community actually stepped up at the last possible moment to ensure the team wouldn't become the Minnesota Wild following the 1994/95 season. The group needed a new arena and capital to cover the losses that were plauging NHL teams at that time. The cost: $111 million. People across the province banded together to raise more than $13 million in just a few days. A deal was struck by the business group purchased part of the Jets for $32 million and also absorbed $23 million in debt. Ultimately, infighting in the ownership group and a power struggle between the new group and present owners resulted in the deal being dropped before the beginning of next season. The team was allowed to stay before becoming the Phoenix Coyotes in 1996.

What stung in Winnipeg, was the fact that the Coyotes continued to lose even more money than the Jets had in in their final season, but had owners who weren't bothered by this. "The NHL is a business now." That phrase was repeated to me time and time again by Phoenix fans. And they were right. The only numbers that mattered were on paychecks, not how many hockey fans were in your community.

To help make up for rising salary costs, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman had a plan to secure an national TV deal in the States, a major source of revenue for most major leagues in the country. This meant expanding the league to fit a "national footprint." Expansion teams were awarded, and massive "hockey education" programs launched in an effort to create a national fan base.

Canadians watched in disbelief as cities several times their size built fan bases sometimes comparable to theirs in size. Behind the scenes, minor hockey progams in these cities even started to grow. However, these teams still lost millions every year, but were guaranteed survival thanks to wealthy owners and the desires of the league.

It boggled the minds of Winnipeggers, who live in the city with the most hockey rinks per capita in the world. Their money-losing franchise had died, but several more money-losing franchises were born in the United States. It was a tough pill to swallow.

People in Canada aren't celebrating the possible agony that American NHL fans would suffer if they lose a team. Far from it. We feel your pain. We know how unfair it feels to lose a team due to circumstances beyond your control.

However, there is celebration in the fact that the NHL has admitted that they were wrong to leave and mistreat Canada. As saddening as it was to watch the perfect storm develop that nearly swept all but 3 of our NHL teams off the map, it's exhilirating to watch things balance out:

* Leaked NHL info is showing that revenue from Canadian teams are working heavily to prop up the league, which now depends on revenue sharing and salaries tied to revenues.
* The national American TV deal never materialized. Fans much prefered to watch their own team on local stations. The NHL doesn't get national rights money from NBC. Instead, it gets pre-empted for horse racing chatter.
* The Canadian dollar is at 94 cents American and is expected to hit par in the next couple of years.
* There have been rumblings for some time that American owners are getting fed up with absorbing losses, and will be willing to put their teams up for sale in the next few years.

A lot of these things have happened quite quickly, which has hockey fans north of the border VERY excited. In fact, the final point was rumour and speculation until the recent email and press conference from Craig Leopold. Because Nashville is the first team with a pending sale in place, their fans have wrongly been labeled as uncaring and been forced to bear some brutal insults.

I know what that's like. I went through all that stuff too. Even right now there are some individuals on HF (including a mod), who say that it's blasphemy to say anything bad about Nashville, but use those same fingers to criticize Winnipeg at every opportunity.

Just for the record, re. "stealing teams." Winnipeg has simply been in talks with the league to say that we're interested in a team. Those folks, the people who matter, don't care whether it's through relocation or expansion. Fans honestly don't care either. Sure, their excited at the psopect of maybe having a Pittsburgh or a Nashville, because they are AMAZING teams. Yes, our deputy mayor even wrote to Pittsburgh when there was a CHANCE they might move. That's what started the Winnipenguin hype, and now it's happening with Nashville, especially since Mr. Canadian Moneybags might end up with the team and the league is saying they don't want another Ontario team.

I trutly wish hockey fans in Nasvhille all the best. All year, I've been reading in The Hockey News about your great fans but lack of business support. I'm not sure what advice to offer, since buying season tickets isn't the same as getting corporate sponsorships out there, and it seems like no matter what promos and advertising approaches are taken, the number of corporate accounts still declines. I would urge anyone with a flex pack to upgrade to season tickets, as that's one thing a Preds rep mentioned to the media that was hurting the team -- the fact that they are iving and dying with the 12 game or 6 game pack (can't remember the exact number).

The other thing to remember to, is that the league will ultimately end up doing whatever it wants. It kept the Pens from being bought by the very same guy by attaching all sorts of requirements to the deal. They blocked the sale of the St. Louis Blues to people who would have moved the team to Saskatoon. They gave Ottawan and Florida an expansion team over Hamilton because of the pull the Maple Leafs have as a leading moneymaker in the league. This may work in your favour, it may not. I'm pretty skeptical, but that's only because I've seen this movie before, and the ending made me sick.

Good luck and be strong.


First off, excellent post "bodybreak".

To me, a passionate fan is a passionate fan, no matter where he lives or what team he cheers.

I read what gnashville says in his posts and a lot of things he says are against Winnipeg and against Canada and against Canadians and I don’t really like it too much.

But I understand where he is coming from. He is pissed off; he might be losing his team.
I have been there; I really do know how he feels. It sucks big time.

Especially when no one knows exactly how this is going to unfold. He hears there going, then he hears they may be staying, then he hears about land being bought and then an arena deal in Hamilton.
One source says one thing and then another source says something else. Man, talk about an emotional roller coaster. He feels betrayed and I can relate.

He doesn’t know what the hells going on and neither do any of us.

But what he does know is that he might lose the team he loves and it’s eating at him and he is upset and he is lashing out.

The passion is just oozing out of him.

People can say whatever they want about you being upset, but gnashville, I know you are a true passionate fan and you have my respect for it.
 

shawnmullin

Registered User
Jul 20, 2005
6,172
0
Swift Current
honestly I'll say it's never a celebration when a team has to move. However, as a Canadian all of us are glad to see more teams in Canada. It's a natural reaction.
 

Gnashville

HFBoards Hall of Famer
Jan 7, 2003
13,780
3,659
Crossville
I was referring to tickets purchased not "tickets distributed."

And as I said, MTS Centre in Winnipeg can be expanded. There are space for that. BTW, as of February 2007, the NHL's paid attendance average was less than 15,800.

GHOST
Winnipeg would not Average 15,003 in tickets purchased either don't fool yourself or others. The league REQUIRES some Comp (Free) ticket to be retained for each game for Players' families, Officials' families, visiting League officials, media, etc.. Plus it's a cost of doing business to give out extra comp tickets to businesses that are sponsors already. Please do not continue to pretend that Nashville, Florida, Carolina, etc.. are the only to as you say distribute tickets when Ottawa and Montreal had close to 1000 per game last year. It's not as if those cities that you hate are handing out tickets to every passerby on the street.
 
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syc

Registered User
Aug 25, 2003
3,062
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Visit site
Yesterday on a local sports show here in Nashville a guy from Canada called bragging about the Predators moving there. He said "now you know Americans how it feels to lose a team". Please explain the revenge factor involved in the Preds moving and the Hate directed at Nashville (since we came into the league). Yes the Jets and Nords did move to the US. Both were gone before the Preds even existed. It's like you want to stick it to America with us leaving. Why??? Us Nashville fans did nothing to Canada other than accept your national sport and learn to love it like you do. I mean no one here celebrated when the Expos moved to Washington. Even when the Girzzlies moved most people in Nashville did not care. Most fans feel sympathy for the fans of teams that move not rub it in their face. It's really very classless to do so. Honoring Balsillie as a "hero" in Edmonton makes no sense to me.

Also "be careful what you wish for you may get it" this could set a dangerous precedent with the NHL breaking the 7 year clause and allowing the team to be moved. A Billionaire in Houston may offer 220 mill for the Oilers in five years and use the "you allowed Balsillie to move after 1 season" thing when he wants to relocate (I think this almost happened one time). Yes the CN Dollar is strong but can you garentee that in 5 years??? Canada may gain the Preds but lose other teams if this happens. Did anyone ever think of that????

Plus why does Hamilton and Winnipeg not get critized for trying to steal teams?? I mean Hamilton tried to aquire the Jets in 96. Winnipeg tried to steal the Pens in 04. Yet KC is run through the ringer for doing the same thing.

Valid points but you have to understand the fact that most Leaf fans never get a chance to even go to a Leaf game. I see one a year if I'm lucky. Then we hear how the Preds averaged 12,000 PAID tickets per game this season with one of the best teams in the league.

So a rumor of another team coming to the greater Toronto area makes us feel all warm inside.

It's not hating Nashville as much as it is loving the fact that we might have a chance to see couple live games a year. Which you could not understand.
 

Gnashville

HFBoards Hall of Famer
Jan 7, 2003
13,780
3,659
Crossville
First off, excellent post "bodybreak".

To me, a passionate fan is a passionate fan, no matter where he lives or what team he cheers.

I read what gnashville says in his posts and a lot of things he says are against Winnipeg and against Canada and against Canadians and I don’t really like it too much.

But I understand where he is coming from. He is pissed off; he might be losing his team.
I have been there; I really do know how he feels. It sucks big time.

Especially when no one knows exactly how this is going to unfold. He hears there going, then he hears they may be staying, then he hears about land being bought and then an arena deal in Hamilton.
One source says one thing and then another source says something else. Man, talk about an emotional roller coaster. He feels betrayed and I can relate.

He doesn’t know what the hells going on and neither do any of us.

But what he does know is that he might lose the team he loves and it’s eating at him and he is upset and he is lashing out.

The passion is just oozing out of him.

People can say whatever they want about you being upset, but gnashville, I know you are a true passionate fan and you have my respect for it.
If I am coming of as against Canada or Winnipeg it's not intentional and I am sorry. Most of the sticking it in my face is coming from Winnipeg though (which is why it may come across that way).

I'm just trying to understand why most Canadians are celebrating the Preds moving. Fans in Edmonton, Calgary, Montreal should have no interest either way but are jumping for joy. It' make no sense to me as someone above said it 1 vs 29 not 6 vs 24. Why that us vs them mentality. If Ottawa wins the cup would Leafs fans celebrate the cup coming home to Canada?? ditto The Oilers and Flames fans the seasons before. I want to see the Sens win it not Anaheim (because I don't like Chris Pronger).

BTW heres a time-line of Predators' history

Ever since they came here the fans were told to have Patience
The 1st 3 years were a honey moon the town was excited to be big league (also the Titans had just moved here which added to the feeling)

Sometime in year 4 the Predators soured themselves with the corporate big wigs. Leipold and the Predators staff have admitted it was their fault, regardless who is to blame corporate ticket sales started to fall.

In year 5 the Playoff pledge was created to bring back the corporate fans and rebuild some burned bridges. It failed miserably the team started 2-14-2-2 that year the playoffs were a pipe dream one forth of the way into the season. There were articles in the Tennessean about the team possibly have the worst record in NHL history, and not reaching double digit wins. Not exactly the type of thing to fire up the fan-base in to attending games. The team did play very well and finished that season strong but did not help season ticket renewals.

Year 6 the team finally made the playoff and the fans started to return. then the lockout occurred and killed all momentum built by the first smell of success.

Year 7 the lockout we were told to have patience once again the new CBA will save the team make us competitive and keep hockey in Nashville for years to come.

Year 8 Post lockout everyone was excited to have the team back and attendance went back up (not as much as some places but an increase) The team was very good until the end of the season and lost in 5 games in the Playoffs. Some of the Playoff games did not sell out. But for the most part the Fans came back but the corporate support continued to lag.

Year 9 The team played very well and attendance was OK through the 1st 3 months. Not many sellouts but higher and showing sings of improving. The media (esp in Canada) blasted the fans for not selling out every night without doing and research as to why they were not. Corporate tickets was the issue but no one outside of Nashville cared. The scream of "Nashville has the best team in the league and they don't sell out every night, they should be moved" started. In January Craig Leipold dismissed these article and assured the fans of it being hot air. He then said he was putting up 40% of the team for sell to any local interest to improve ticket sales, and that had ZERO INTENTIONS OF MOVING OR SELLING ALL OF THE TEAM. Most fans believed him (I did not BTW). The team continued to tear it up and attendance got a huge boost after the Super Bowl (as most American Markets do in both NHL and NBA) then the Forsberg trade happens and an even bigger boost occurred. Corporate sales improved new companies came on board things were looking good. Playoff games sold out in minutes with no fan-fair outside of Nashville. The team the lost in 5 games and everyone was disappointed but season ticket renewals for the next season were high and NEW ticket sales were too. Every thing was starting to look good for the team and fans.

Now Leipold sells out to Balsillie. Leipold said just back in February that He would never sell out to anyone that had intentions of moving the team and would not even talk to those types of inquires. The truth was he had been negotiating with Kansas City (something he said he never did) and started a bidding war Between Balsillie and the KC group. The fans are Pee'd. Leipold lied to us and now all the momentum created post lockout is killed.

Enter Jim Balsille: He lied to Gary Bettman because it's crystal clear he has no intentions of keeping the team in town at all. He's never even set foot in Nashville, but has already decided to pull the plug instead of looking into the reasons the team does not sell-out. He refuses to even come to Nashville or talk to the media or mayor using the excuse "I don't own the team yet". It's true he does not own the team officially but has started to make a deal in Hamilton to move there already, and is looking at land to build an arena in Kitchener. If he won't speak to Nashville because he does not own the team, then why talk to Kitchener or Hamilton??? If this was being done to a Canadian team the media and fans would be yelling to the highest mountain "unfair" but instead are cheering Balsillie and proclaiming him a "hero".

We the Nashville fans were told to have patience, but are being shown none by Leipold, Bettman, or Balsillie. Give the fans a chance without gutting the team or tripling ticket prices.
 
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Bear of Bad News

Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
Sep 27, 2005
13,542
27,086
No one is saying Florida is a good hockey market.

Flawed logic unfortunately...I support you guys because I'm a big believer in two wrongs dont make a right, but "Look at Florida" is not an appropriate response to "Nashville is a bad hockey market"


Flawed logic, indeed. You inferred something there that wasn't meant to be implied.
 

Bear of Bad News

Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
Sep 27, 2005
13,542
27,086
"Why is all of Canada celebrating?"
Because it's hockey and it's the finals and a Canadian based team is in the finals.
We could probably replace the Maple Leaf on the flag with the Stanley Cup and there wouldn't be much argument.
But mostly because we feel the Stanley Cup's home is in Canada and it's been visiting a foreign land way too long.
Don't ask for logical reasons, it's an emotional thing.

Feel free to start reading the posts instead of just the thread titles.
 

DevFan-RU-

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
11,057
0
Morristown, NJ
www.battleofny.com
Valid points but you have to understand the fact that most Leaf fans never get a chance to even go to a Leaf game. I see one a year if I'm lucky. Then we hear how the Preds averaged 12,000 PAID tickets per game this season with one of the best teams in the league.

So a rumor of another team coming to the greater Toronto area makes us feel all warm inside.

It's not hating Nashville as much as it is loving the fact that we might have a chance to see couple live games a year. Which you could not understand.

Building a market takes time.
 

Resolute

Registered User
Mar 4, 2005
4,125
0
AB
And if one single person or group from Nashville had shown any interest in buying the team, and accepting the losses while the market grows, this conversation would not be happening.

Growing the market is completely irrelevent at this point. The market has not grown enough in ten years to be viable. The current owner has had enough, and the new owner is making a buisness decision.
 

vivianmb

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
2,891
2
winnipeg
www.whocares.ca
I do not agree that the number of hockey fans in an area is an irrelevant point at all. In fact, I think that your above comment is the most ridiculous I’ve read from you to date. I guess you’d think it’s a great marketing idea to try to sell Big Macs to Hindus or Jack Daniels to Mormons, rather NHL hockey to Canadian hockey fans!

Seriously, though, are you trying to say that an analysis of the demographics of a potential NHL market should not include an assessment of the number of hockey fans in the market as well as many other factors such as per capita disposable income, potential to create new NHL fans, likely corporate support, etc.? That seems to be what you are saying.

I’ll spell it out for you. If you have more hockey fans in an area, don't you think it would be more likely to find in that larger group a larger number of fans who are willing AND able to plunk down actual money? I gather there are more lawyers, doctors, accountants, dentists, engineers, owners of successful small businesses, architects, chiropractics, senior civil servants, law or business professors, investment professionals, etc., that are hockey fans in a market like Winnipeg than in some other market that has fewer hockey fans. These are the type of people - many of which do not work for large private corporations - that can afford to purchase tickets in the expensive lower bowl - those tickets that are not already acquired by large corporations. After the host of professionals or successful small business owners that do not work for large corporations, you have a huge contingent of people such as school teachers, tradesmen, unionized workers, restaurant managers and blue collar workers that are hockey fans. I’d venture a guess that that contingent alone would include tens of thousands of hockey fans in a city like Winnipeg. There job is to purchase tickets and game packages in the upper bowl. Then you have hundreds of thousands of others that are students, taxi drivers, waiters, hair dressers, clerks, amateur hockey players, recreational hockey players, etc., or casual hockey fans that get in on the excitement and go to the occasional game. Anyone can afford $40 or $50 to see a hockey game once in a while in a first world country like Canada, with the possible exception of a welfare recipient. The job of this latter group is to purchase the game day tickets. Finally, in a city with more hockey fans, wouldn’t it be more likely that more corporations would be interested in leasing luxury boxes and club seating, and wouldn’t they have more senior executives that were hockey fans that would enjoy the fringe benefit of attending games with their clients, friends or family?

That’s paid attendance. What about TV and radio broadcast rights fees? Wouldn’t it stand to reason that 100,000 or 200,000 watching an NHL team on a regional broadcast would be better from a business perspective than 10,000 or 20,000? That’s what is occurring in the NHL right now, with a market like Edmonton averaging a reported 157,000 audience for its regular season games versus many other markets that average 20,000 or lower. More eyeballs usually translates into more ad revenue which in turn usually translates into larger right fees (there are a few anomalies in the NHL such as the Islanders which we could discuss). What's the difference between a regional TV market like Edmonton’s and certain other markets with poor TV ratings? You guessed it: more hockey fans.

That’s regional TV ratings and broadcast fees. What about merchandise? When I was a child growing up in Winnipeg there were a huge number of kid that had a Jets jersey or two with their favorite players name and number on the back. Why do you think that is? You guessed it: more hockey fans that asked their parents for a new jersey for Christmas, their birthday, etc. Once again, more hockey fans = more revenue.

I think what you were trying to say is that the number of hockey fans does not matter because only the wealthy can attend hockey games and contribute to hockey revenue. That is just not true even with today’s expensive ticket prices.

BTW, in case you don’t know, the average household income in Winnipeg is close to 60,000 CAD or over 50,000 USD. And Winnipeg has one of the lowest home ownership costs (mortgage interest, principal payments, property taxes and utilities) in the country, and the lowest for any major city, representing only about 14 percent of average household income according to TD Economics as of August 2006. This translates into more disposable income to buy things such as hockey tickets.

Here are the comparable home ownership costs in Canada as a percentage of household income for other western Canadian cities:

Vancouver: 50%
Calgary: 24%
Edmonton: 18%

http://www.td.com/economics/special/housing_0806_pr.pdf

GHOST


to quote the great david byrne ... " stop making sense"
 
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