Why is all of Canada celebrating????

[John Belushi]

Uhhh, apparently $13 mill wasn't enough, so they failed then didn't they?? Shows once again to me that theres not enough $$ in Winnipeg if they couldn't come up with more than that.

Well how much cash do you think Florida and Nashville could raise to save "their" teams? Likely much less than 13 million considering the lack of local support.

 

[Gumby]

They're losing money hand over fist every year. Who do you propose should take those losses to give them a chance?

Put a MLB World Series contender in Regina, Saskatchewan and people will show up.

You're awful quick to point out how EIG is inflating their loses but you trust the Nash ownership completely??

Prob true about Regina or Sask, but I think MLB would be a little bitter if they had everyone in the friggin city watchin the game and it'd be less than most last place teams in the US...don't think the guys at FOX would be too happy either come the next TV deal.

 

[Westguy13]

It's not about revenge, it's about putting teams back where they belong. Even if it's by expansion instead of relocation. I'm certain the Jets and Nordiques could have stayed and stuck it out like the Oilers did but they went for the quick American dollar. I don't think they HAD to move, but there wasn't anything the Joe Average fan could do about it at the time.

So why do these teams "belong" there? Because they are Canadian? If thats the reason the league started as a mainly American league so I don't see the point with that. Is it cause it snows there? Uhh I had atleast 10 good pickup games on a pond in Lawrence (20 minutes from KC) this winter so that excuse is out. Is it because of lack of coperate support? Well lets see when the Pens option came up all the box seats in Sprint Center sold out so thats not it. Is it lack of money in the area? Well one of the highest EBI's in the country says thats not it. Is it lack of hockey patronage? When the Topeka Scarecrows were in the CHL they had crowds of 4000-5000 with almost no advertisement, in a town half the size of KC and still in the same region so thats not it. Is it in to competitive sports market? Cheifs only have like 8 home games a year and nobody really cares about the royals so thats not it. So why again do these Canadian markets deserve it over this one or others like it in the US? Just sounds like more blind homerism then anything.

 

[Raoul Duke*]

You're awful quick to point out how EIG is inflating their loses but you trust the Nash ownership completely??

Prob true about Regina or Sask, but I think MLB would be a little bitter if they had everyone in the friggin city watchin the game and it'd be less than most last place teams in the US...don't think the guys at FOX would be too happy either come the next TV deal.

I wouldn't trust any of them, but if Nashville was making money there'd be no reason to sell to the first bidder. Edmonton on the other hand got an offer and turned it down on which they all would have made a tidy profit. Which if they were crying poor, why wouldn't they take it?

Regina is in Saskatchewan. The problem about the TV deal is that the NHL doesn't have one. What is NBC going to pay less than $0 if Nashville leaves?

 

[Raoul Duke*]

So why do these teams "belong" there? Because they are Canadian? If thats the reason the league started as a mainly American league so I don't see the point with that. Is it cause it snows there? Uhh I had atleast 10 good pickup games on a park in Lawrence (20 minutes from KC) this winter so that excuse is out. Is it because of lack of coperate support? Well lets see when the Pens option came up all the box seats in Sprint Center sold out so thats not it. Is it lack of money in the area? Well one of the highest EBI's in the country says thats not it. Is it lack of hockey patronage? When the Topeka Scarecrows were in the CHL they had crowds of 4000-5000 with almost no advertisement, in a town half the size of KC and still in the same region so thats not it. Is it in to competitive sports market? Cheifs only have like 8 home games a year and nobody really cares about the royals so thats not it. So why again do these Canadian markets deserve it over this one or others like it in the US? Just sounds like more blind homerism then anything.

That's a lot of questions to answer. I don't have much time right now, so I'll just respond with a bunch of questions myself:
Why does England deserve more soccer teams than the US?
Why does the US deserve more baseball teams than Yugoslavia?
Why does India deserve more cricket teams than Canada?
Why does Canada deserve more hockey teams than we already have?

There's your answer.

 

[Gumby]

The average fan does not seem to be the problem in Nashville. It is a problem with the corporate sector and that does not appear to be fixable.

Leipold brought in one of the best corporate marketers in pro sports to try to reach the Nashville corporate sector and it did not work. Here is what Leipold had to say about this issue in his e-mail to Nashville Predator fans:

Since the NHL is corporate season ticket driven league, this does not seem a workable market.

Do you not remember the lockout and the immense damage it did? If they could get 4000 at a point where the team was nothing more than a curiosity then I guarantee they can again....the businesses didn't go anywhere, they just need time and a little success to get em back.

 

[Gumby]

Well how much cash do you think Florida and Nashville could raise to save "their" teams? Likely much less than 13 million considering the lack of local support.

If the greater Miami area had 1/2 the passion for hockey Winnipeg does/did I'd say easily $500 mill....EASILY

 

[Levizk]

That's a lot of questions to answer. I don't have much time right now, so I'll just respond with a bunch of questions myself:
Why does England deserve more soccer teams than the US?
Why does the US deserve more baseball teams than Yugoslavia?
Why does India deserve more cricket teams than Canada?
Why does Canada deserve more hockey teams than we already have?

There's your answer.

I notice that your question wasn't why does the US deserve more teams than Canada? The one question you wanted to ask is not similar to the others. The answer of course to that question would be 10x the population and a lot more money.

 

[Gumby]

So why do these teams "belong" there? Because they are Canadian? If thats the reason the league started as a mainly American league so I don't see the point with that. Is it cause it snows there? Uhh I had atleast 10 good pickup games on a park in Lawrence (20 minutes from KC) this winter so that excuse is out. Is it because of lack of coperate support? Well lets see when the Pens option came up all the box seats in Sprint Center sold out so thats not it. Is it lack of money in the area? Well one of the highest EBI's in the country says thats not it. Is it lack of hockey patronage? When the Topeka Scarecrows were in the CHL they had crowds of 4000-5000 with almost no advertisement, in a town half the size of KC and still in the same region so thats not it. Is it in to competitive sports market? Cheifs only have like 8 home games a year and nobody really cares about the royals so thats not it. So why again do these Canadian markets deserve it over this one or others like it in the US? Just sounds like more blind homerism then anything.

 

[Gumby]

Regina is in Saskatchewan. The problem about the TV deal is that the NHL doesn't have one. What is NBC going to pay less than $0 if Nashville leaves?

Ummm, huh? We were talkin about a baseball team in Regina.

 

[John Belushi]

If the greater Miami area had 1/2 the passion for hockey Winnipeg does/did I'd say easily $500 mill....EASILY

Obviously the Miami area has that cash potential, but the thing is few corporate suits would want to invest their money in a hockey team, unlike the people in Winnipeg, who have considerably less money to spend to support a hobby like the Jets.

 

[Gumby]

That's a lot of questions to answer. I don't have much time right now, so I'll just respond with a bunch of questions myself:
Why does England deserve more soccer teams than the US?
Why does the US deserve more baseball teams than Yugoslavia?
Why does India deserve more cricket teams than Canada?
Why does Canada deserve more hockey teams than we already have?

There's your answer.

Who says any of them do deserve more than another?

 

[Westguy13]

That's a lot of questions to answer. I don't have much time right now, so I'll just respond with a bunch of questions myself:
Why does England deserve more soccer teams than the US?
Why does the US deserve more baseball teams than Yugoslavia?
Why does India deserve more cricket teams than Canada?
Why does Canada deserve more hockey teams than we already have?

There's your answer.

Lol thats a joke and you know it.

So why is it NYR draws more income then any Canadian team? How come 6+ US teams make more money then Montreal? How come there are only 2 Canadian teams in the top 10 highest grossing NHL franchises pre lockout? You want to know why you wont answer those questions for me? It's obviously not time since you've been sitting on here for hours jabbering. It's cause you can't.... But I can answer yours if you want dispite the terrible wording that makes you sound even more of a homer.

Why does England deserve more soccer teams than the US?
They don't nessicarily. Why do they have more is a better question. Why does England have more soccer teams then the US? Thats simple their populous has the ability/drive to support those teams where as the US only has teh ability not the drive. The major problem in the United States is lack of talent most United States soccer fans would prefer to watch it at it's top level which would be European Football not American. This also creates a vacuum where the European leagues gain even more monetary support from these markets around the world allowing them to support more teams.
Why does the US deserve more baseball teams than Yugoslavia?
Agian deserve is a bad word to use and I will reform the question the way I did the last and will the rest of the questions. The reason Yugoslavia does not have as many baseball teams as the US is a combination of many things. A) lack of talent willing to play in the league B) lack of funds to support the teams C) lack of interest in the sport.
Why does India deserve more cricket teams than Canada?
The country simply does not care enough to keep them afloat at the top level.
Why does Canada deserve more hockey teams than we already have?
Now I will answer this as you have posed it though the wording is off because that is a leading question and leads in an opposite direction then I truely belive. Simply they donot while the drive is there the money is not. Canada simply does not have the population or moneitary means to keep a float many more teams then they already have. There are just simply more qualified options in the United States at the moment.

Ohh on a side note I assumed you meant NHL teams on that last one as the Nation does support more hockey teams then the United States.

 

[Westguy13]

The funny thing is I even screwed up in there I meant to say Topeka is almost one tenth the size of KC. My bad.

 

[Gumby]

Obviously the Miami area has that cash potential, but the thing is few corporate suits would want to invest their money in a hockey team, unlike the people in Winnipeg, who have considerably less money to spend to support a hobby like the Jets.

My point exactly, theres not enough money in Winnipeg. They need a massivly expensive overhaul of that new arena (what Pejorative Slur designed that place?....was built in hopes of luring the NHL back right?) and the corperate support that Leipold is crying about isn't really there so how does this work?

 

[MAROONSRoad]

So why do these teams "belong" there? Because they are Canadian? If thats the reason the league started as a mainly American league so I don't see the point with that. Is it cause it snows there? Uhh I had atleast 10 good pickup games on a park in Lawrence (20 minutes from KC) this winter so that excuse is out. Is it because of lack of coperate support? Well lets see when the Pens option came up all the box seats in Sprint Center sold out so thats not it. Is it lack of money in the area? Well one of the highest EBI's in the country says thats not it. Is it lack of hockey patronage? When the Topeka Scarecrows were in the CHL they had crowds of 4000-5000 with almost no advertisement, in a town half the size of KC and still in the same region so thats not it. Is it in to competitive sports market? Cheifs only have like 8 home games a year and nobody really cares about the royals so thats not it. So why again do these Canadian markets deserve it over this one or others like it in the US? Just sounds like more blind homerism then anything.

Because there are more hockey fans in these Canadian markets and because hockey is integral to the culture of some of these communities, certainly Winnipeg? If you want to play the "deserve" game, I'd argue those two points. However, I prefer not to use the "deserve" angle in isolation; there must be a willing owner and, for that, an economic case for a viable market (non-chronic money losing) must be made. When you add the cultural importance argument with the economically viable case, you end up with this: any viable Canadian market should at least have an equal shot to host a franchise as any viable American market. I'm not sure that's the case. This is a matter of opinion or a value judgment. People that believe all issues relating to culture, the arts or even sports should be determined according to business strategies or the economic bottom line to the exclusion of all other inputs or values, may not agree and that's fine.

GHOST

 

[Westguy13]

Because there are more hockey fans in these Canadian markets and because hockey is integral to the culture of some of these communities, certainly Winnipeg? If you want to play the "deserve" game, I'd argue those two points. However, I prefer not to use the "deserve" angle in isolation; there must be a willing owner and, for that, an economic case for a viable market (non-chronic money losing) must be made. When you add the cultural importance argument with the economically viable case, you end up with this: any viable Canadian market should at least have an equal shot to host a franchise as any viable American market. I'm not sure that's the case. This is a matter of opinion or a value judgment. People that believe all issues relating to culture, the arts or even sports should be determined according to business strategies or the economic bottom line to the exclusion of all other inputs or values, may not agree and that's fine.

GHOST

Exactly I'm not argueing that acutally I'm pretty much on that side. But when the economic and buisness sides of things don't match that of what some of these US cities are offering the "Cultural significance" means diddly in my mind. You have to look at more then percentage of people that like the sport and more at the ability/willingness showed to support the sport. Winnipeg is almost 1/4 the size of Kansas City hell the entire provence is half of the population of KC. How should these two be put on equal footing? Say 50% of that population will buy tickets during the season thats 300,000 people(which is so rediculously unrealistic it's not funny.) that would mean approx 14% of KC residents would have to buy a ticket at some point during the season. Thats only 1 in 5 adults instead of about 9 in every 10 adults in Winnipeg.

 

[Westguy13]

Note that I also didn't note that the Average EBI of Winnipeg is lower then the national average. KC is one of the top average EBI's in the United States which is as a whole also higher then Canadas.

 

[Gumby]

Because there are more hockey fans in these Canadian markets and because hockey is integral to the culture of some of these communities, certainly Winnipeg? If you want to play the "deserve" game, I'd argue those two points. However, I prefer not to use the "deserve" angle in isolation; there must be a willing owner and, for that, an economic case for a viable market (non-chronic money losing) must be made. When you add the cultural importance argument with the economically viable case, you end up with this: any viable Canadian market should at least have an equal shot to host a franchise as any viable American market. I'm not sure that's the case. This is a matter of opinion or a value judgment. People that believe all issues relating to culture, the arts or even sports should be determined according to business strategies or the economic bottom line to the exclusion of all other inputs or values, may not agree and that's fine.

GHOST

What role do you really think cultural importance plays in any of this? With the sad state hockey is in now there should be one objective, growth, and what markets provide the best opportunity for it. That and what will help bring in some more money in a TV deal. I Don't think for one second any owner or player (now that they're partners) thinks for one second about cultural importance when deciding such things....when it comes to your paycheck things are a bit different.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Exactly I'm not argueing that acutally I'm pretty much on that side. But when the economic and buisness sides of things don't match that of what some of these US cities are offering the "Cultural significance" means diddly in my mind. You have to look at more then percentage of people that like the sport and more at the ability/willingness showed to support the sport. Winnipeg is almost 1/4 the size of Kansas City hell the entire provence is half of the population of KC. How should these two be put on equal footing? Say 50% of that population will buy tickets during the season thats 300,000 people(which is so rediculously unrealistic it's not funny.) that would mean approx 14% of KC residents would have to buy a ticket at some point during the season. Thats only 1 in 5 adults instead of about 9 in every 10 adults in Winnipeg.

The "cultural significance" point is actually very important in my opinion. People that argue everthing in the world should come down to the economic bottom line are just fooling themselves and would realize that if they would just be honest with themselves.

The metro population of KC is just over 1.9 million according to data I've seen. That's not four times the size of Winnipeg, which has a metro population of over 700,000. I would venture that the number of hockey fans in Winnipeg is 10 to 20 times the current number of hockey fans in Kansas city on a per capita basis. That's another consideration.

GHOST

 

[Westguy13]

The "cultural significance" point is actually very important in my opinion. People that argue everthing in the world should come down to the economic bottom line are just fooling themselves and would realize that if they would just be honest with themselves.

The metro population of KC is just over 1.9 million according to data I've seen. That's not four times the size of Winnipeg, which has a metro population of over 700,000. I would venture that number of hockey fans in Winnipeg is 10 to 20 times the current number of hockey fans in Kansas city on a per capita basis. That's another consideration.

GHOST

OK and how much do you actually know about KC and do you have any kind of real reason for belive this then just pure uninformed speculation? BTW do you think we should put a team in a 250,000 population area in the Dakota's because they want it?

As for your figures I was working on the numbers of 650,000 in Winnipeg and 2.2 mil in KC (metro figures) Though I figured out my issue I was reading Winnipeg as non metro. Also you have to keep in mind the hockey interest growth potential and amount of people that would go to the games not just how many major hockey fans there are.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

What role do you really think cultural importance plays in any of this? With the sad state hockey is in now there should be one objective, growth, and what markets provide the best opportunity for it. That and what will help bring in some more money in a TV deal. I Don't think for one second any owner or player (now that they're partners) thinks for one second about cultural importance when deciding such things....when it comes to your paycheck things are a bit different.

I agree that the owners and the players for the most part are guided by economic considerations and strategies, however misguided or unlikely to succeed. Such emphasis could result in introducing the shootout in the playoffs. Would you like that?

Just because something is the case, does not mean we have to like or agree with it.

GHOST

 

[Westguy13]

You are also forgetting the most important figures. Not just who's a fan but how much extra money do they have to spend on tickets and how much corperate support is there? KC I guarentee has more major buisnesses based in the area that would back the product then Winnipeg. And I already addressed your arguements on interest in the game when I said a CHL team drew 4-5000 fans in a 250,000 resident area. You think they can't do 18+ in a 2.2 million resident area? With near unlimited advertising budget and top level play instead of a third teir league with no advertising?

 

[Westguy13]

BTW isn't the arena there like 16,000 seats?

 

[MAROONSRoad]

OK and how much do you actually know about KC and do you have any kind of real reason for belive this then just pure uninformed speculation? BTW do you think we should put a team in a 250,000 population area in the Dakota's because they want it?

As for your figures I was working on the numbers of 650,000 in Winnipeg and 2.2 mil in KC (metro figures) Though I figured out my issue I was reading Winnipeg as non metro. Also you have to keep in mind the hockey interest growth potential and amount of people that would go to the games not just how many major hockey fans there are.

I have been to Kansas City. Have you ever been to Winnipeg?

I don't believe a team should be placed anywhere just because people want a team there. Don't be ridiculous.

Your numbers are wrong. Winnipeg's metro is over 700,000 and I haven't seen any figures showing KC has 2.2 million people, no matter how KC's area is described. The other factor you have to consider about a city is the demographics of its population and the percentage of such demographic likely to be hockey fans, but that's another issue.

GHOST