Who is the worst GM in the Montreal Canadiens history?

[Censored Toad]

Bergevin always ****s up my summer. I try to stay away but wtf, bro? And gotta love the Friday at 9pm news dump trade announcement. If this was a good deal they'd have held it till Monday morning. Classic MB crap. Par for the course...

Isnt this what you wanted ? Improved transparency just like Geoff Said!?!?!

WHY CANT YOU PEOPLE JUST BE HAPPY

 

[optimus2861]

I have a hard time picking now, and Houle used to be a runaway #1 here.

It's hard to separate my feelings about the two, as well. Houle was in over his head from day #1 and everyone pretty well knew it. Plus it seemed fairly obvious that Ron Corey / Molson were pinching pennies and there was a move afoot to run the team on the cheap. So it's hard to hold Houle completely at fault for his tenure. He also remained fairly humble through the role. You honestly just felt kind of bad for him that he got shoved into that seat.

Bergevin, on the other hand, has full confidence from ownership (why, we've no idea), no effective budgetary limits (though who can tell), is obscenely arrogant, routinely throws players both current and just-traded-former, under the bus, loses major trade after major trade through no fault but his own, and stuffed the organization full of cronies & yes-men, several of whom he's now sacrificed to try saving his own skin.

I guess it's a hair-splitter between ignorant incompetentence and arrogant self-righteous incompetence. You can maybe, just maybe, educate the former, but the latter is a hopeless project who should be terminated with prejudice as soon as humanly possible.

 

[Sorinth]

Trading Sergachev was worst. What was he supposed to do with Roy? Hard to get full value when youre tangled up. He had no choice, obviously Tremblay is his fault but still... Add to that Chuck, Subbaan... god damn.

Subban, Chuck, Rads, Sergachev, Markov, Eller all gone and he replaced em with

Weber, Domi, Drouin and Shaw.

Didn't Tremblay get hired by Corey? I seem to remember they got announced at the exact same time.

 

[Bring Bak Damphousse]

Gainey is awful, but for reasons that are obvious, he gets a pass on HF.

Genuinely curious what those reasons are? Is this another French/English debate? Because I’m pretty sure Mark Bergevinski would be universally hated just as much as Marc Bergevin is now. Gainey isnt perfect but he inherited a team thst had been in the dumps for a decade, and continued andre savards work of getting the habs back to respectability. Gomez and Ribero trades along with him being responsible for gauthier are huge blemishes, but his revamped core got us further in the playoffs than we’d been since 93. He also essentially built the team that again went to the eastern finals a few years later. The more MB dismantles the team gainey built the worse we seem to get, so again when it comes to worst Habs GM’s Gainey isnt in the running

 

[Bring Bak Damphousse]

I have a hard time picking now, and Houle used to be a runaway #1 here.

It's hard to separate my feelings about the two, as well. Houle was in over his head from day #1 and everyone pretty well knew it. Plus it seemed fairly obvious that Ron Corey / Molson were pinching pennies and there was a move afoot to run the team on the cheap. So it's hard to hold Houle completely at fault for his tenure. He also remained fairly humble through the role. You honestly just felt kind of bad for him that he got shoved into that seat.

Bergevin, on the other hand, has full confidence from ownership (why, we've no idea), no effective budgetary limits (though who can tell), is obscenely arrogant, routinely throws players both current and just-traded-former, under the bus, loses major trade after major trade through no fault but his own, and stuffed the organization full of cronies & yes-men, several of whom he's now sacrificed to try saving his own skin.

I guess it's a hair-splitter between ignorant incompetentence and arrogant self-righteous incompetence. You can maybe, just maybe, educate the former, but the latter is a hopeless project who should be terminated with prejudice as soon as humanly possible.

I wish I could like this post more than once, well said.

 

[CH25]

Here's a bunch of 20 something fanboys who have been following hockey for an average of 10 years and who claim MB is the "worst GM of all time".

Is this the Donald Trump effect or what? I miss the days when you could come on that board and have a balanced and nuanced debate between knowledgeable hockey fans. The level of discussion here has never been so weak and boring. This thread alone is embarrassing.

Then please explain to us how Bergevin is not at least in the discussion for worst GM of all time? You've made no arguments besides the "oh I've been following hockey longer than you so I must know more".

 

[Wats]

Gainey is awful, but for reasons that are obvious, he gets a pass on HF.

Don't disagree that he wasn't really that good but he still managed to bring in 60-70 point forward in Kovalev for long term without giving up core youth. Drafting record under his reign was the best in the past 20 years. Gorges+1st for Rivet was significant win that impacted team positively for years.

He gave Ryder/Streit/Souray/Ribeiro/McDonaugh/Higgins away for nothing but he did put the organization in a much better overall position than Bergevin.

As sad as it is, don't think it's unfair to suggest he's the best GM the team had past 20+ years

 

[WatchfulElm]

Then please explain to us how Bergevin is not at least in the discussion for worst GM of all time? You've made no arguments besides the "oh I've been following hockey longer than you so I must know more".

I honestly don't have time to lose trying to explain the obvious to you. Maybe try to educate yourself, read about the NHL long history, try to judge trades over their result after many years instead of basing your analysis on your emotional attachment over X players, and then maybe we can talk.

I'll just say this : if the worst GM of all time managed to lead his team to win its division for 3 years during his 6 years tenure, what can we say about the GM of the teams which have systematically finished behind? And here we're just talking about a 6 years span out of a hundred years of history.

If someone comes to me and say "Justin Trudeau is the worst politician of all time", I honestly don't have time to explain to him why Hitler was worse. Just educate yourself please.

 

[ImNeverWrong]

Houle was absolute garbage, but he at least made one major positive deal when he got sheldon souray who was an absolute stud for us. Can bargainbin brag about winning any big trades?

 

[didimentionlarseller]

I honestly don't have time to lose trying to explain the obvious to you. Maybe try to educate yourself, read about the NHL long history, try to judge trades over their result after many years instead of basing your analysis on your emotional attachment over X players, and then maybe we can talk.

I'll just say this : if the worst GM of all time managed to lead his team to win its division for 3 years during his 6 years tenure, what can we say about the GM of the teams which have systematically finished behind? And here we're just talking about a 6 years span out of a hundred years of history.

If someone comes to me and say "Justin Trudeau is the worst politician of all time", I honestly don't have time to explain to him why Hitler was worse. Just educate yourself please.

Not all older fans are as condescending as you are.

Actually Bergevin didn't do that Carey Price did , as a longtime hockey fan you should realize that.

You're angry about the lack of good writing and then you throw out a Hitler Trudeau thing at the end of your post seriously you might be part of the problem, thats horrible writing.

 

[WatchfulElm]

Houle was absolute garbage, but he at least made one major positive deal when he got sheldon souray who was an absolute stud for us. Can bargainbin brag about winning any big trades?

Petry, Danault, Byron, Weise, Niemi, Vanek, Plekanec.
Most of his big trades are too early to judge, despite what the lynching mob is saying.

 

[Laurentide]

Bergevin is bad but a lot of the hate is recency bias and perhaps a bit of unrealized expectations. Houle (and it really wasn't Houle but Corey pulling Houle's strings) was a far worse GM than Bergevin. But expectations for Houle were low to begin with because the day before he was named GM he was a beer salesman who had never held a hockey job since retiring as a player. And the Habs weren't interested in spending money during Houle's tenure, which is why they hired him to be Corey's meat puppet in the first place. Bergevin, on the other hand, came into the job highly touted as an up-and-coming front office executive. The bar for him was set quite a bit higher. I'm not even so sure that Bergevin is worse than Gauthier, who would probably be my #2 worst of all time after Corey/Houle.

Still, Bergevin ranks no "worse" than the 3rd worst GM in the 119 year history of the franchise, which is bad enough.

 

[WatchfulElm]

Bergevin is bad but a lot of the hate is recency bias and perhaps a bit of unrealized expectations. Houle (and it really wasn't Houle but Corey pulling Houle's strings) was a far worse GM than Bergevin. But expectations for Houle were low to begin with because the day before he was named GM he was a beer salesman who had never held a hockey job since retiring as a player. And the Habs weren't interested in spending money during Houle's tenure, which is why they hired him to be Corey's meat puppet in the first place. Bergevin, on the other hand, came into the job highly touted as an up-and-coming front office executive. The bar for him was set quite a bit higher. I'm not even so sure that Bergevin is worse than Gauthier, who would probably be my #2 worst of all time after Corey/Houle.

Still, Bergevin ranks no "worse" than the 3rd worst GM in the 119 year history of the franchise, which is bad enough.

Can you explain to me why Bergevin is worse than Jack Laviolette, George Kennedy, Ernest Savard, Cecil Hart, Jules Dugal and Irving Grundman?

3rd worse since Pollock? I could live with that. But 3rd worse in 119 years? (109 actually) Good luck explaining that to me.

 

[Censored Toad]

so serious question....

who the heck is RDS going to character attack now that PK, Eller and Galchenyuk are gone?
Seriously, who is the new goat ?

 

[didimentionlarseller]

so serious question....

who the heck is RDS going to character attack now that PK, Eller and Galchenyuk are gone?
Seriously, who is the new goat ?

Price was already taking some heat last year my guess is Bergevin goes after him next

also Drouin will start to get attacked this year for not being Bergevin's master stroke he will soon be the next Galchenyuk lols

 

[CGG]

Oh come on. Hate MB all you want but Houle was wretched.

The team Houle inherited:

Damphousse-Turgeon-Recchi
Savage-Koivu-Keane
Brunet-Conroy-Bellows
Petrov-Lamb-Stevenson
Darby

Malakhov-Brisebois
Odelien-Daigneault
Racine-Popovic
Rivet

Roy
Tugnutt

The team Houle left us with:

Rucinsky-Koivu-Linden
Savage-Zhotlok-Zubrus
Brunet-Corson-Stevenson
Poulin-Darby-Asham
Cummins

Weinrich-Brisebois
Dykuis-Rivet
Bouillon-Ulanov
Lachance

Hackett
Theodore (drafted by Savard)

 

[Censored Toad]

Price was already taking some heat last year my guess is Bergevin goes after him next

also Drouin will start to get attacked this year for not being Bergevin's master stroke he will soon be the next Galchenyuk lols

I'm not sure they turn on Pricer... I mean the media (english) might but Bergie owes any success on price
Turn on JD? No.. I dont see that either. It took ALOT for french media started to murmur about Le Petite Prince.

I think patches might be in the cross hairs next.

 

[Laurentide]

Can you explain to me why Bergevin is worse than Jack Laviolette, George Kennedy, Ernest Savard, Cecil Hart, Jules Dugal and Irving Grundman?

The first four guys worked in an era that is completely and utterly different than what goes on today. They may have also had the same job title as Bergevin but what they did compared to what Bergevin does are not even on the same planet. They managed in an era where teams had absolute control over their players for life and could pay them as much or as little as they pleased. They also managed in a six team era where there were always good players on the outside looking to get in. GM's in today's NHL have no such luxuries.

Even Grundman's era was very different than today because free agency, while it existed in some form, was not the wild west show that it is today. Teams still had almost complete control over their players. And while Grundman wasn't particularly good at his job, his biggest trade didn't set the club back a generation the way Corey's trade of Roy did years later. Rod Langway was an American who wanted to play in the US. The Habs were not going to be able to keep him so there's no point crying about the fact that we lost him. Grundman traded, along with Langway, Jarvis, Engblom and Laughlin (none of whom were indispensable) for Rick Green and Ryan Walter, two players who helped the Habs win a Cup in 1986 and reach the finals in 1989. Langway, predictably, won the Norris with the Capitals but they never did anything in the playoffs the entire time he or any of the others were there.

Bergevin traded Subban, who went to the finals in his first season with the Preds and is nominated for the Norris this year. Weber had a great first season then got injured early in his second and may or may not be ready to play in the fall. He traded Sergachev (a position of need - LHD) for Drouin who is a winger (not a position of need) and then compounded it by forcing Drouin to fill a position of need (1st line center) for which he isn't well-suited. Then he broke the bank open for his goalie, even though goalies no longer matter as much as they once did. This weekend, he traded a guy who can score for a guy who doesn't score as much and who, again, does not address a position of need. It's debatable if any of that is worse than trading a guy in the middle of a game like Gauthier did to Cammalleri but it's much worse than anything Grundman did.

 

[WatchfulElm]

The first four guys worked in an era that is completely and utterly different than what goes on today. They may have also had the same job title as Bergevin but what they did compared to what Bergevin does are not even on the same planet. They managed in an era where teams had absolute control over their players for life and could pay them as much or as little as they pleased. They also managed in a six team era where there were always good players on the outside looking to get in. GM's in today's NHL have no such luxuries.

Even Grundman's era was very different than today because free agency, while it existed in some form, was not the wild west show that it is today. Teams still had almost complete control over their players. And while Grundman wasn't particularly good at his job, his biggest trade didn't set the club back a generation the way Corey's trade of Roy did years later. Rod Langway was an American who wanted to play in the US. The Habs were not going to be able to keep him so there's no point crying about the fact that we lost him. Grundman traded, along with Langway, Jarvis, Engblom and Laughlin (none of whom were indispensable) for Rick Green and Ryan Walter, two players who helped the Habs win a Cup in 1986 and reach the finals in 1989. Langway, predictably, won the Norris with the Capitals but they never did anything in the playoffs the entire time he or any of the others were there.

Bergevin traded Subban, who went to the finals in his first season with the Preds and is nominated for the Norris this year. Weber had a great first season then got injured early in his second and may or may not be ready to play in the fall. He traded Sergachev (a position of need - LHD) for Drouin who is a winger (not a position of need) and then compounded it by forcing Drouin to fill a position of need (1st line center) for which he isn't well-suited. Then he broke the bank open for his goalie, even though goalies no longer matter as much as they once did. This weekend, he traded a guy who can score for a guy who doesn't score as much and who, again, does not address a position of need. It's debatable if any of that is worse than trading a guy in the middle of a game like Gauthier did to Cammalleri but it's much worse than anything Grundman did.

This all makes sense. Then why do you insist saying Bergevin is the 3rd worst in 119 years if you now admit different eras cannot be compared?
Is Bergevin the 3rd worst since Pollock? Now that's debatable. I would personally rank them this way :

1- Pollock
2- Savard
Then far behind :
3- A. Savard
4- Bergevin
5- Gainey
6- Grundman
7- Gauthier
And far behind :
8- Houle

 

[Laurentide]

This all makes sense. Then why do you insist saying Bergevin is the 3rd worst in 119 years if you now admit different eras cannot be compared?
Is Bergevin the 3rd worst since Pollock? Now that's debatable. I would personally rank them this way :

1- Pollock
2- Savard
Then far behind :
3- A. Savard
4- Bergevin
5- Gainey
6- Grundman
7- Gauthier
And far behind :
8- Houle

I would rank Bergy as third worst of all time behind only Corey/Houle and Gauthier. He's not better than Gainey or either of the Savard's if we're looking only at the modern era when players gained more bargaining power. Everyone from before Serge Savard was playing under a set of rules that heavily favored management with regard to player movement, salaries, etc. So my modern era list would be as follows:

1. S. Savard - the last guy who actually won something.
2. Gainey - was doing okay until his daughter died.
3. A. Savard - neither pleased nor offended; had little to work with or to spend. Didn't do anything drastic.
4. Bergevin - gets worse with each passing day that Molson doesn't fire him.
5. Gauthier - not even sure that he likes hockey, let alone knows anything about it.
6. Corey/Houle - a self-centered wannabe and a beer saleseman meat puppet. What could go wrong?

Pollock and Grundman belong to a previous era.

 

[groovejuice]

There's something wonky with this poll. I have to revote every time I come to this thread.

 

[WatchfulElm]

I would rank Bergy as third worst of all time behind only Corey/Houle and Gauthier. He's not better than Gainey or either of the Savard's if we're looking only at the modern era when players gained more bargaining power. Everyone from before Serge Savard was playing under a set of rules that heavily favored management with regard to player movement, salaries, etc. So my modern era list would be as follows:

1. S. Savard - the last guy who actually won something.
2. Gainey - was doing okay until his daughter died.
3. A. Savard - neither pleased nor offended; had little to work with or to spend. Didn't do anything drastic.
4. Bergevin - gets worse with each passing day that Molson doesn't fire him.
5. Gauthier - not even sure that he likes hockey, let alone knows anything about it.
6. Corey/Houle - a self-centered wannabe and a beer saleseman meat puppet. What could go wrong?

Pollock and Grundman belong to a previous era.

Funny thing is : The guy everybody would rank #1, Serge Savard, is the one who traded Chelios in return of Denis Savard, and Leclair+Desjardins+Dionne for Recchi. These 2 trades are arguably worse than anything that Bergevin did so far. We would forgive MB very quick if he suddenly managed to bring a cup to Montreal.

 

[MaxDummy]

Funny thing is : The guy everybody would rank #1, Serge Savard, is the one who traded Chelios in return of Denis Savard, and Leclair+Desjardins+Dionne for Recchi. These 2 trades are arguably worse than anything that Bergevin did so far. We would forgive MB very quick if he suddenly managed to bring a cup to Montreal.

Context is everything with Bergevin. He has no plan at all, say he wants To build from the draft but trade 2x 2nd round pick for a guy we didnt need, trade out 3rd overall pick Galchenyuk, our 9th in Sergachev, trade Subban...

1 word to describe MB tenure as GM

Nonsense

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

Bergy just distmantled the team papercutting them to death.

Subban to Weber
Galchenyuk to Domi
Eller essentially to Shaw
Radulov to Drouin
Markov to "untapped potential" Scrubco

Most arent huge drops in player quality, save Markov but everytime Bergy replaces a player its for a slightly inferior one.

Do this so often, and you get this team

Other teams use Marc like old NHL 2012. Build a star team slowly trading 78 ratings for 83 until you get to 90+. Meanwhile Marcs doing it in reverse mode

 

[drewjenks]

Destruction of my manhood??....

Oh man, you take this online stuff waaayyyy to seriously.

Do people still self analyze their integrity and “manhood” on a chat forum??????

Apparently some do lol

You da man whoever you are lol

Radulov left for Dallas for the same contract......that’s fact!!

Markov here last year would’ve leaped us from 4th last to 8th last, hence a worst pick........NEXT

"Radulov left for Dallas for the same contract....that’s fact!!"

All that push-back just to low key agree with me anyways....?

I like your style....still need to work on your opinions though.

We'll make a man outta you.