kk87
Registered User
Wouldn't give him more than $5 mil and wouldn't give him more than 3 years. I like the guy but he's as good as gone
What would it take to retain JVR?
- Thread starter OppositeLocK
- Start date
“Hey guys, so I know you’ve worked hard all year and we’re Top 4 in the league, but I want another 1st round pick because we don’t think you guys are good enough to win. I guess it kind of makes your job harder, but don’t worry, 4 years from now, we might have drafted a player who can help you out. So just don’t worry about working hard until 4 years from now.”
I really hate the hypocrisy of this fanbase.
“I want to win the cup, but only if we’re 1st in the league, all four lines score 100 goals and we have 6 first pairing dmen”.
Part of building a winning culture is respecting your players and the work they put in.
It’s also building the expectation of winning, by trading away 30 goal scorers for futures, you’re taking away a bit of that expectation.
Yes, asset management is important, but you have to do it at the right times.
I’m sure people will say “Johnsson can take his spot, may not score as much but he’s responsible defensively and can PK”. I love Jonhsson, but this is a 5’10 23 year old first time PPG player in the AHL, that we’re going to throw into the lineup of a Top 4 team playoff contender? It just doesn’t make f***ing sense.
It’s such a loser mentality to trade away UFA’s because we don’t think we’re good enough. Then some of you will argue to buy and spend assets if we don’t sell? We’ve got a pretty big window here, stay the course, be patient.
It’s also building the expectation of winning, by trading away 30 goal scorers for futures, you’re taking away a bit of that expectation.
Yes, asset management is important, but you have to do it at the right times.
I’m sure people will say “Johnsson can take his spot, may not score as much but he’s responsible defensively and can PK”. I love Jonhsson, but this is a 5’10 23 year old first time PPG player in the AHL, that we’re going to throw into the lineup of a Top 4 team playoff contender? It just doesn’t make f***ing sense.
It’s such a loser mentality to trade away UFA’s because we don’t think we’re good enough. Then some of you will argue to buy and spend assets if we don’t sell? We’ve got a pretty big window here, stay the course, be patient.
Al14
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2007
- 24,220
- 5,594
Where the heck did I say in my post that I didn't want them to win a Cup now?
Where the hell did I say in my post that I want them to be 1st overall in the League before they win the Cup?
Where the f*** did I say in my post that we had to have an entire team of 100 goal scoring forwards and 1st pairing D-men before we win the Cup?
All I said is that I would have liked management to have traded JvR for assets, if they had no desire to re-sign him! What I didn't say, and, maybe I should have, is that I wanted the trading of JvR to turn into immediate help on D for the upcoming playoffs, and, assets for the future!
I want our Leafs to win the Cup ASAP, and, I want them to remain competitive for the long run, maybe, just maybe, winning multiple Cups in the next few years!
To remain competitive, an organization has to maximize the use of it's assets! Letting players, with higher trade values, just walk in free agency, is not effective asset management IMHO.
Get real!
Trapper
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
- 23,755
- 11,038
Or hey guys we acquired a quality piece with that extra 1st round pick (a la Andersen trade) that's really going to help us long term after Bozak,JVR,Komarov,Plekanec all walk for nothing.
But Lou, why did you let them all walk for nothing when we were on a roll? Who's replacing them? That's a big chunk of the team we know gone.
Sorry, you guys should have won it now.
You can spin it anyway you like.
Bottom line this is where we are.
Not everyone will be happy with the asset management.
But every decision has consequences.
Let's watch the playoffs and determine if it was worth the price.
Timing needs to equal price.
Was it time to keep JVR? Remains to be seen. I don't like it but I accepted it.
Was it time to compound that with a Plekanec trade? I absolutely think not. We should have done nothing in the midst of our doing nothing. It would not have diminished everything that the players here all year fought for. Just a waste of a 2nd soon to be gone.
the problem with jvr is he doesnt play with matthews and dosnt mesh with kadri so he is basically a 3rd line winger. we cannot lock up a 3rd line winger with no upward or downward mobility for term or big money.
hyman matthews nylander
marleau kadri marner
leivo xxxxxx kapanen
komorov xxxxxx brown
hyman matthews nylander
marleau kadri marner
leivo xxxxxx kapanen
komorov xxxxxx brown
Trapper
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
- 23,755
- 11,038
Well that's the thing.
If you acquired a longer term piece in the summer for a JVR trade, you could have moved Marner or maybe that piece to play with Matthews on the wing. Perhaps the other piece could have played with Kadri as well. Then Willy could have played C all year and not needed to spend assets on Plekanec. But now if Willy stays at wing, you've moved assets to address no long term issues. Now we're looking at 3C and 4C for next year along with the D shoring we are still looking for.
Ok, let's wait and see the master plan because as of now, and with the exception of a long playoff run, im not thrilled with it.
diceman934
Help is on the way.
Trading JVR this trade deadline would have hurt our development more then help it with a draft pick or two. Our team can compete now and to trade away any of our UFA players would sent a message to them that we can not complete and we do not believe in you.
We have lots of assets that we can and will move to get the pieces we need along with keeping our picks. Right now we have an abundance of wingers who can or will be good NHL players. With every up grade in position we gain assets to sell to keep our cupboards stocked until it is time to empty them to keep giving out team a chance to win its last game of the playoffs.
I’ll admit, I had a fair amount of logical fallacies in my post, it was merely to get a point across.
JVR seems to fit in the locker room well, if it’s a lateral value move for an upgrade on D mid season, that affects chemistry. It’s also difficult to make trades based on what we think is fair value.
I’m sure if we could have moved JVR and turned those same assets into a D upgrade that’s not injured, (McDonagh/Karlsson) we would have, but that expectation is asinine.
So ultimately it likely would have came down to us being able to get good value for JVR at the deadline, at the expense of trading some of our own futures on top of the acquired ones for McDonagh, something management is clearly not interested in (trading our own futures). We walk out with no D upgrade, but futures for JVR while downgrading our current roster or we don’t change our roster because it’s hard to make 3+ big trades on deadline day.
It’s pretty easy with hindsight to say
JVR for 1st + Fabbro
Bozak for 2nd + 3rd
1st + 2nd (cup win condition to 1st) + Liljegren + Bracco + Brown for McDonagh + Miller
3rd for Maroon
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It will suck to lose JVR for nothing, he is a 30 goal a year winger, and a awesome net front presence but his Back checking and any compete level in the D-zone is laughable, He will walk and get his 30 goals elsewhere, just wondering what will be available this summer if none of the marlies are ready?
Dzonna
Registered User
- Mar 28, 2017
- 1,034
- 430
There it is. The sense I need talked into me from time to time
kb
Registered User
- Aug 28, 2009
- 15,289
- 21,735
Quick, name a Stanley Cup contender who traded their pending free agents just because? Other than the tire fire that is St. Louis....
Eh, I tend to feel the same way a lot of the time about JVR.
Players do grow as they mature, maybe he develops that aspect under Babcock, not a risk I want to take, but it’s possible.
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
I recognize that but nonetheless, it will be very difficult to replace his consistent production and the added dimension he brings to our offense.
I have resigned myself to the probability that he's going to walk, but it's going to be felt more than some realize.
You're correct. Seems that it only (some) Leaf fans want to trade all their upcoming UFAs cause they aren't winning the Cup this year. The idea is still to give your team hope and give your young players the Cup experience for hopefully greater success in a few years.
kb
Registered User
- Aug 28, 2009
- 15,289
- 21,735
Explain why you would intentionally weaken the team at the deadline for a few lottery tickets, and what type of message does that send to the rest of the team?
What is the asset cost lost of possibly going on a run in the spring?
Superstar
"Be water, my friend."
- Jun 25, 2008
- 12,471
- 8,557
Matthews, Marner, Nylander and the rest of this young team should never, ever be given any doubt that this management team is not serious about winning! Trading away UFAs for picks when we have a chance to win the Cup is a defeatist mentality.
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after tavares, jvr is basically as good as any other forward left to give you offense...but theres a big summer free agent year after this summer with tons of great players available in 2019 so i really wanna save cap for that and only try for 1 year deals in thornton or the sedins
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