What would it take to retain JVR?

[DarkKnight]

It's the term more than the money for me, these retirement deals kill you.

 

[wingman75]

Seems unfortunate to me that we are going to have to let him go... I really wish we could keep him - he plays a particular part in all of this.

Looks like we will be on the lookout for a cheaper but similar mold player in FA this season, as I do not see anyone on our roster who can play down low like he can.

 

[Gary Nylund]

after tavares, jvr is basically as good as any other forward left to give you offense...but theres a big summer free agent year after this summer with tons of great players available in 2019 so i really wanna save cap for that and only try for 1 year deals in thornton or the sedins

I've been thinking that JVR might be our plan B after Tavares but this seems like it might be a better idea.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Hyman
Marleau
Grundstrom
Leivo
Martin
Johnson

Marner
Nylander
Brown
Kapanen

No real room for him anymore after this season.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

There is a huge glut of Left wingers.
They shopped him for a few years and didn't get any good offers.
Babcock thinks he's a gud pro because he works out alot.

He's just too risky to keep.

Unless he promises to go to Robidas Island in 2-3 years.

"Unofficially".



A big reason not to keep JVR. Future left winger.

 

[Nooodles]

after tavares, jvr is basically as good as any other forward left to give you offense...but theres a big summer free agent year after this summer with tons of great players available in 2019 so i really wanna save cap for that and only try for 1 year deals in thornton or the sedins

Next year always looks so good, but don't let it fool you, half of those players will sing with their team by the summer of 2019.

 

[SprDaVE]

He'll easily get at least 6M on the open market. I'm not sure the Leafs will give him that money and it seems very unlikely considering our needs and depth.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Unless he was willing to take Kadri-type money, which he won’t, I think JVR has to go. I’m not comfortable giving $6 million to anyone in their 30’s who is not a star.

I’d let him go, and either replace him from within, or sign a better UFA in the future if needed.

 

[Walshy7]

He'll easily get at least 6M on the open market. I'm not sure the Leafs will give him that money and it seems very unlikely considering our needs and depth.

im not sure they wont, I am 100% sure they shouldn't. A 28 yr old power play specialist who needs heavy offensive zone sheltering, and we are going to give him minimum 6 years? that is insane he already isn't worth $6M to this team and some want to take right up to 34?

 

[Tak7]

You're correct. Seems that it only (some) Leaf fans want to trade all their upcoming UFAs cause they aren't winning the Cup this year. The idea is still to give your team hope and give your young players the Cup experience for hopefully greater success in a few years.

Oh I was just pointing out where the "own rental" term came from.

There was a premium this deadline in scoring wingers. I've said multiple times here I would have traded JvR - I think he's too juicy an asset who garners too good a return to let go for nothing.

Could have used those assets to improve the D

 

[rumman]

Nope, Darren Voices in my head Dredger

Dreger Report: Examining ‘own rentals’ and players in play - Article - TSN

my apologies, I thought Lou said it when being interviewed by Bobby Mac. I'll confirm quotes and attach links going forward. Don't want to be putting words in people's mouth's for them.

 

[The CyNick]

People really discount the value of goal scoring in a game that is decided by goal scoring.

It will be a massive blow to the strength of this team if he's with another team next year. At the same time, you have to set boundaries for salary for players like JVR. So it'll be a tough negotiation. Hopefully he wants to retire a Leaf.

If we lose Bozak and JVR this year, and then Marleau in the near future, that's over 70 projected goals or a quarter of our output. People will say we can replace with better defensive forwards and the net impact will be beneficial, but those people generally don't understand the game.

Hopefully some of these kids finally live up to their hype and score beyond single digits in the show. I just know it's tough to replace 30+ goal scorers and JVRs game lends itself to not declining sharply with age.

 

[drewjenks]

What do you think the rate would be for him?

Could we trade Marleau to make room for JVR? I’d like to keep him.

Nope.

Full NMC.

And not a good look if we wan't to sign UFA's in the future.

I'm with you though....would be nice.

 

[meefer]

People really discount the value of goal scoring in a game that is decided by goal scoring.

It will be a massive blow to the strength of this team if he's with another team next year. At the same time, you have to set boundaries for salary for players like JVR. So it'll be a tough negotiation. Hopefully he wants to retire a Leaf.

If we lose Bozak and JVR this year, and then Marleau in the near future, that's over 70 projected goals or a quarter of our output. People will say we can replace with better defensive forwards and the net impact will be beneficial, but those people generally don't understand the game.

Hopefully some of these kids finally live up to their hype and score beyond single digits in the show. I just know it's tough to replace 30+ goal scorers and JVRs game lends itself to not declining sharply with age.

JVR = 30 goals. Replacement = 15 goals. (ya, JVR scores more)
JVR = -15 goals defensively. Replacement = -10 goals defensively (his replacement conceivably will be a better defensive player, cause JVR sucks at D)
JVR = +15 goals offence - 5 goals defense (
JVR = +10 goals net/season
Last year the Leafs scored in total 250 goals (rough count). JVR accounts for a +10 goal differential equating to .04%/game @ $6/yr...I don't think so.
(hypothetical I know)

 

[nuck]

JVR = 30 goals. Replacement = 15 goals. (ya, JVR scores more)
JVR = -15 goals defensively. Replacement = -10 goals defensively (his replacement conceivably will be a better defensive player, cause JVR sucks at D)
JVR = +15 goals offence - 5 goals defense (
JVR = +10 goals net/season
Last year the Leafs scored in total 250 goals (rough count). JVR accounts for a +10 goal differential equating to .04%/game @ $6/yr...I don't think so.
(hypothetical I know)

They have found Hagman, Raymond, Parenteau, Grabner and MacArthur in the past. There is always cheap scoring out there. Plus, once the kids are getting proper ice time compared to most of their peers, their scoring will go up as well. Kessel, Sundin, and Mogilny played 19-20 minutes a night so why not the current group?

 

[Marner]

He will probably get 7x6

If he hits ufa

 

[PromisedLand]

Good-Bye JVR. It was nice knowing you

 

[meefer]

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate JVR, I just don't like him. A one dimensional player. That's not what I want on the Leafs, especially at the cost he's going to demand.

My guess is that these vets are going to find 'big' contracts will become harder to come by in the years to come. Skill sets evolve and a player like JVR has but one really valuable skill. Teams no longer want just one, they want more. Actually, I'll go out on a limb and hazard that JVR won't get 6/yr, especially with term. Teams should be growing weary of the 34 year old vet at a high cost who is slowing down, and JVR is definitely not a great skater. His regression will be more severe. 5M/y over a 4 year term and I'd consider, gives him a chance for a final 2 year at 2M if he's got anything in the tank. Times, they be a changing.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Replacing JVR's production in the next couple years will be a smaller issue than having him signed on at $6 million with a few years remaining on his deal when he starts to decline. Especially if there are other, younger players that need to be re-signed.

 

[Tak7]

im not sure they wont, I am 100% sure they shouldn't. A 28 yr old power play specialist who needs heavy offensive zone sheltering, and we are going to give him minimum 6 years? that is insane he already isn't worth $6M to this team and some want to take right up to 34?

There's a lot of truth here.

While "powerplay specialist" is a little harsh, you can't ignore the fact that JvR really doesn't have a defensive side to his game.

On a defensively weak team, in a league where upgrading your blueline can be really challenging, the best alternative way of getting better without the puck is finding forwards who are better without the puck and inserting them into your lineup over guys who aren't good defensively.

 

[Gary Nylund]

People really discount the value of goal scoring in a game that is decided by goal scoring.

I assume you meant to say "some people". Here's my rebuttal:

Some people overstate the value of goal scoring in hockey, preventing goals is every bit as important.

It will be a massive blow to the strength of this team if he's with another team next year. At the same time, you have to set boundaries for salary for players like JVR. So it'll be a tough negotiation. Hopefully he wants to retire a Leaf.

If we lose Bozak and JVR this year, and then Marleau in the near future, that's over 70 projected goals or a quarter of our output. People will say we can replace with better defensive forwards and the net impact will be beneficial, but those people generally don't understand the game.

Hopefully some of these kids finally live up to their hype and score beyond single digits in the show. I just know it's tough to replace 30+ goal scorers and JVRs game lends itself to not declining sharply with age.

When your argument consists of nothing but pointless insults, you've lost the argument before it even begins.

 

[Walshy7]

There's a lot of truth here.

While "powerplay specialist" is a little harsh, you can't ignore the fact that JvR really doesn't have a defensive side to his game.

On a defensively weak team, in a league where upgrading your blueline can be really challenging, the best alternative way of getting better without the puck is finding forwards who are better without the puck and inserting them into your lineup over guys who aren't good defensively.

100% agree

Kapanen for example definatly has 20-25 goal potential, he imo will save you 10 more goals a season than having JVR we now either break even or are ahead on goal difference with kapanen over JVR. Kapanen was rated above Nylander in euro scouting at least partially during their draft years he may have even finished higher than him I cant remember kid has legit offensive talent. Johnsson although untried in the NHL seems to show more defensive aptitude than JVR, I believe Johnsson is on the marlies PK.

A team short on scoring forwards will pay JVR 6x$6M and if that's what you need then it isn't a bad deal, to a team that doesn't NEED that it is a very bad long term contract

 

[ACC1224]

People really discount the value of goal scoring in a game that is decided by goal scoring.

It will be a massive blow to the strength of this team if he's with another team next year. At the same time, you have to set boundaries for salary for players like JVR. So it'll be a tough negotiation. Hopefully he wants to retire a Leaf.

If we lose Bozak and JVR this year, and then Marleau in the near future, that's over 70 projected goals or a quarter of our output. People will say we can replace with better defensive forwards and the net impact will be beneficial, but those people generally don't understand the game.

Hopefully some of these kids finally live up to their hype and score beyond single digits in the show. I just know it's tough to replace 30+ goal scorers and JVRs game lends itself to not declining sharply with age.

Decided by goal differential. You have to score more than you give up.

 

[Walshy7]

Nope.

Full NMC.

And not a good look if we wan't to sign UFA's in the future.

I'm with you though....would be nice.

a NMC doesn't necessarily mean he cant be traded. Nathan Horton has a full NMC, but his contract also has listed a M-NTC. Im pretty sure a NMC is only for being sent down to the minors (which is smart seeing how the leafs dumped so many vets down there). Im not 100% but the fact Horton specifically has both leads me to believe Marleau doesn't have any NTC rights, but likely got a verbal understanding if he was traded it wouldn't be without his consent to where.

But anyway totally agree not a good look to future UFA's

 

[nuck]

There's a lot of truth here.

While "powerplay specialist" is a little harsh, you can't ignore the fact that JvR really doesn't have a defensive side to his game.

On a defensively weak team, in a league where upgrading your blueline can be really challenging, the best alternative way of getting better without the puck is finding forwards who are better without the puck and inserting them into your lineup over guys who aren't good defensively.

Its very much tied to cap issues as well because the big three have to be paid, and the D is going to cost them more to be competitive. I don't think they are in on Tavares but what if? Doughty? Carlson? McDonagh? A lot of people assume they won't have any bad money going forward or that players will sign for comfortable numbers. What if Freddy gets wrecked or the young D men regress, never mind if JVR goes Loui Ericksson in year 3? When you have 4 really good younger offensive players I don't see any need to commit to an expensive veteran winger. The FA wallet needs to come out for defensemen.