The Panther
Registered User
Sundin was obviously way better than Tavares! I mean, really, people...
Tavares, top 150?? I don't really see it.
Tavares, top 150?? I don't really see it.
Sundin was obviously way better than Tavares! I mean, really, people...
Tavares, top 150?? I don't really see it.
Sundin is another one where I wonder what could have happened if he was surrounded by competence...probably my #1 all time example of "he looks way different in person than on TV" player. He really jumps off the page in person.
It's worth saying Tavares on the isles had a much worse supporting cast then Sundin did with the leafs. Okposo(who is a 30 point player without him), Matt Moulson, Pa Parenteau? No offense to these guys but it wasn't exactly a stellar supporting cast.
The destitute man's Crosby?Stylistically, very poor man's Crosby seems fair.
The problem with Mats wasn't that he never had a good supporting cast. It's that when he entered his prime he didn't. Give me those isles guys over whatever was left when Gilmour and Murphy (the last good players) was traded away. Berezin, Grandpa Clark, pre-breakout Modin, Warriner, Matt Martin, Derek King, Mike Johnson, McCauley, Korolev, Bohonos, Hendrickson.. It was like a whos who of hockey garbage.
Those were the support cast he had between 97-00. After that up until the lockout it got a little better where the best players he played with was Jonas Höglund, Steve Thomas and a couple of seasons later Mikael "My body barely works anymore" Renberg, Gary Roberts and I think it was 03 they got Mogilny to complement him and Tucker.
Such wastefulness with a players career. His support cast was atrocious.
Roberts was post 2000, Sundin was around Tavares second Leaf season old by then.Most of this is complete fiction. Gary Roberts, Steve Thomas, Alex Mogilny
Roberts was post 2000, Sundin was around Tavares second Leaf season old by then.
That was 97-00 Sundin support:
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That only 4 years of his career too, not sure why we would not consider 1993 Sundin and up to be prime Sundin.
97-98-99-00 would be 4 seasons. What do you mean by what I posted ? It is not me that said anything about the value of the Leaf of the era, just pointed out that a named player was outside the range of the poster and gave a link to Sundin support of the talked about era.So 2-3 seasons of sub par teammates is equivalent to Tavares carrying the corpse of a franchise for a decade? What you posted makes practically zero sense.
So 2-3 seasons of sub par teammates is equivalent to Tavares carrying the corpse of a franchise for a decade? What you posted makes practically zero sense.
Most of this is complete fiction. Gary Roberts, Steve Thomas, Alex Mogilny were better then anything Tavares had with the isles. He was also on offensively talented teams in Quebec prior to going to the leafs.
What about Dale Hawerchuk as a comp for Tavares?
What? Andreychuk was far more effective in Tampa in the twilight of his career then Turgeon. Turgeon was absolutely terrible in Dallas and Colorado.
HIs numbers dipped, for sure, but he went from the 1st line to third line in Dallas, behind Mike Modano and Joe Nieuwendyk.
The heroism of Tavares carrying the Isles is extremely exaggerated. Look at his point margin leads compared to some players today on more competitive teams.
They are mentioned and Thomas being better is definitely arguable. But good cherry picking.
What does Quebec have to do with his prime? We can go into the Leafs corpse post lockout as well if you want?
Was Arnott instead of Nieuwendyk that different to the point made ?
1047 and 650 career games are not “fringe nhl players at best”. Parenteau is the exact sort of fringe player that can produce a bit when put in the perfect situation whether Tavares is the first line center or it’s someone else.This is pure fiction, and I almost can't believe what I am reading. Joe Nieuwendyk was traded during Turgeon's first of 3 seasons in Dallas.
Your post makes less then zero sense.
Well it's not as if they were successful with him there. However his teammates, such as Okposo, Moulson, Pa Parenteau all proved to be fringe NHL players at best without Tavares.
So If he was still number 3 with the younger Arnott coming here, the point of the Turgeon dip because he was turned into the third center option seem to make sense ?Considering it wasn't uncommon for Turgeon being deployed above Arnott at times in Dallas, Yes.
1047 and 650 career games are not “fringe nhl players at best”. Parenteau is the exact sort of fringe player that can produce a bit when put in the perfect situation whether Tavares is the first line center or it’s someone else.
So If he was still number 3 with the younger Arnott coming here, the point of the Turgeon dip because he was turned into the third center option seem to make sense ?
Maybe I did not follow the original point or your answer to it.
What's not to understand? The post states that the heroism of the John Tavares Islanders era where he was singlehandedly saving the careers of AHL players and dragging the worst team in the NHL kicking and screaming into a couple of 1st round exits is massively exaggerated. I know it was a popular narrative then and appears to be now. But him going to the Leafs with a team that was poised to be on the rise and him becoming quickly more known for massing up the cap structure as opposed to elevating the team is one hundred percent proof of that.Okposo is only still in the league because he plays for the worst NHL franchise of all time. Who gave him a paycheck specifically because Tavares made him look good.
I literally don't understand your post.
Considering it wasn't uncommon for Turgeon being deployed above Arnott at times in Dallas, Yes.
John Tavares Islanders era where he was singlehandedly saving the careers of AHL players and dragging the worst team in the NHL kicking and screaming into a couple of 1st round exits
Yeah, Turgeon was sometimes delpoyed above Arnott, but Arnott had more ice time per game than Turgeon in both of their seasons together.
This is pure fiction, and I almost can't believe what I am reading. Joe Nieuwendyk was traded during Turgeon's first of 3 seasons in Dallas.
Your post makes less then zero sense.
Considering it wasn't uncommon for Turgeon being deployed above Arnott at times in Dallas, Yes.