What to Make of John Tavares' Career?

[FerrisRox]

Okposo is only still in the league because he plays for the worst NHL franchise of all time.

The Florida Panthers, who are 2nd in the NHL and went to the Stanley Cup Final last season are the worst NHL franchise of all time?

Do you have any takes that are even remotely based in reality?

 

[FerrisRox]

I can barely remember the original point I made, since it was weeks ago. Reading back on the thread, I was defending Andreychuks late career disrespect as a 'compiler' since he was still clearly able to contribute. Someone made the point Turgeon wasn't a compiler, which I agree with. I made the point that Andreychuk was significantly more useful for Tampa, then Turgeon was for Dallas or the avs. A point I stand by.

This isn't necessarily to disrespect Turgeon, who I have no strong feelings for one way or the other. I do however believe he was cooked after leaving St Louis.

If you're done moving those goalposts, I'll answer the question you dodged: You claimed that Pierre Turgeon was terrible in Dallas, and when it was pointed out that he wasn't terrible, but his numbers obviously dipped because he went from the 1st line to the third line, you claimed that was "pure fiction" and that you "couldn't believe what you were reading" and then you said that Nieuwendyk was traded during Turgeon's three years, as if that was some kind of "A ha!" moment.

You obviously left out that he was traded in a package for a different centre, Jason Arnott, who also played ahead of Turgoen.

You then claimed that Turgeon was "often" deployed ahead of Arnott.

You obviously left out that Arnott played three minutes more per game than Turgeon, which certainly makes it a little difficult to understand how Turgeon plays less while simultaneously playing ahead of the guy who plays more.

 

[NyQuil]

One parallel is Alexei Yashin. Similar draft pedigree (2nd vs. 1st).

He finished 2nd in Hart trophy voting in 1999, and led his team in regular season scoring six out of the seven seasons he was with the Senators. Much like Tavares, he had to do a lot of the heavy lifting offensively:

• In 1993-1994, he finished ahead of the 2nd place player (Alexandre Daigle) by 18 points (79 to 51).
• In 1997-1998, he finished ahead of the 2nd place player (Shawn McEachern) by 24 points (72 to 48).
• The following year, in 1998-1999, he finished ahead of the 2nd place player (Shawn McEachern again) by 38 points (94 to 56).

He was traded to another team (ironically, also the Islanders) to serve as the Captain and key centre but never really lived up to his billing or the massive contract that he was given. (10 years at $87.5 million, which was later rolled back)

Tavares has already exceeded Yashin's GP at the NHL level, but in terms of per game production (where Yashin played pretty much entirely in the DPE):

• GPG - 0.40 (Yashin) vs. 0.41 (Tavares)
• APG - 0.52 (Yashin) vs. 0.53 (Tavares)
• PPG - 0.92 (Yashin) vs. 0.94 (Tavares)

One discrepancy is around playoff production, where Tavares has the upper hand (0.80 PPG) to (0.56 PPG).

However, of the 8 times that Tavares did play in the playoffs, he was on a winning team twice, much as Yashin played in 8 playoffs and only won a series once.

 

[Gorskyontario]

The Florida Panthers, who are 2nd in the NHL and went to the Stanley Cup Final last season are the worst NHL franchise of all time?

Do you have any takes that are even remotely based in reality?

I was talking about the Sabres, who he has played nearly 10 seasons for. I was not aware he was traded, and I do not care that he was. I also do not care about his zero points and -1 rating in 2 games.

Your post makes literally zero sense.

If you're done moving those goalposts, I'll answer the question you dodged: You claimed that Pierre Turgeon was terrible in Dallas, and when it was pointed out that he wasn't terrible,

He was terrible in Dallas, and you did not prove anything. If you are willing to prove he was not terrible I am all ears.

 

[WarriorofTime]

You say it's "pure fiction" that Pierre Turgeon was the Stars third line centre? Which one of Mike Modano and Joe Nieuwendyk/Jason Arnott do you believe Pierre Turgeon was playing ahead of?

In '02-'03, Modano was averaging over 20 minutes a game. Arnott was averaging 16.2 minutes a game and Turgeon 14:38. Please explain how Turgeon was playing ahead of those two centres? You can almost not believe what you're reading here, so it should be easy to explain this.

Based on the line combos they posted at the start of this particular playoff game, he may have been 4th line/PP2 come playoff time with Niko Kapanen centering the 3rd line.

 

[MadLuke]

Your post makes literally zero sense.

I am not sure if you know what would that mean, considering how often it seem to be use about message where the sense is really easy to understand (if you agree or not being something else, but deciphering the sense being made here seem really easy for a moderate reader)

2 games.

the 11 minute a night or being traded for Calle Sjalin and a conditional seventh round pick does not really challenge the notion of being a fringe nhler for sure.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Based on the line combos they posted at the start of this particular playoff game, he may have been 4th line/PP2 come playoff time with Niko Kapanen centering the 3rd line.

That's how far he was demoted due to his poor play, further proving my point.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I know it's the internet and all...but does this thread have to be so theatrical...?

Why does everything have to be a "gotcha!" - is that how you guys talk at the bar? haha

 

[NyQuil]

I know it's the internet and all...but does this thread have to be so theatrical...?

Why does everything have to be a "gotcha!" - is that how you guys talk at the bar? haha

The best response is always “whoops, my bad” but that requires a level of maturity that is rare.