Speculation: What is Vegas doing with Vadim Shipachyov?

[bleedgreen]

This makes no sense.

that’s the whole point of the pre season is to try things since the outcome doesn’t matter, I wouldn’t believe he was so bad he couldn’t make it over absolute no skill scrubs.

No skill scrubs? They're better than that. Give them some credit. They're obviously gonna lose their fair share of games but they've already proven there worthy of being in the league as a squad.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Is this purely a paper move while they figure out their roster problems? Then what's the fuss? Makes sense.

The main fuss would be the concern that they irreparably damage their relationship and reputation with this player? He had lots of suitors. He picked Vegas ahead of other offers. Presumably with the understanding that he'd have guaranteed top-6 icetime in Vegas, and a clearly defined role. I would bet that if they said in those initial negotiations that there'd be a chance he'd instead start in the AHL - whether paper move or not - he'd have just signed one of the offers he had instead.

This isn't some 20-year old kid who needs to shut up and do what his boss says. He's a world class player who could have signed with any of a dozen other teams.

And they might want to think about what notes Gusev may be taking on the situation.

They've probably got at least 5 players who would clear waivers on the roster right now. 9D???? Waiving Pickard was already weird. Shipachyov might not be their best F, but... he might be. Or might have been... once adjusted. He should be in their top 5 or 6 at worst. Putting his nose out of joint right off the bat isn't going to help them get him adjusted.

I understand they don't actually want to win right now. There's still no upside in annoying a top player for no good reason. If Shipachyov actually is at all annoyed.

 

[Stjonnypopo]

For all we know, McPhee sat down with Shipachyov before sending him down and they discussed the situation and worked out an agreement IE "you'll be back up in 2 weeks, we're just working out some contract issues and yours is the easiest to send down at the moment"

I doubt this is the case, but it's possible

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

For all we know, McPhee sat down with Shipachyov before sending him down and they discussed the situation and worked out an agreement IE "you'll be back up in 2 weeks, we're just working out some contract issues and yours is the easiest to send down at the moment"

I doubt this is the case, but it's possible

I think we all assume they did do that in some fashion. It would be far worse if they didn't. I still don't think that Shipachyov would be "happy" about it, regardless of how diplomatic or accommodating he chose to be. Whereas they would be better off trying to keep one of their better players "happy".

 

[BagHead]

I get why McPhee is doing this, but it's not the way I'd go about solving the problem, and I'd argue that it may be one of the most misguided ways imaginable to solve it. The last thing you want to do is instantly antagonize one of your most skilled players. Honestly, either trade one of the worst defensmen on your team (of which you have plenty to choose from) for a low pick, or if you can't find anyone that would trade a low pick for a defender, have the awareness to realize that it's likely nobody, immediately, wants them, and so they'd almost certainly clear waivers.

Personally, I'd be annoyed right now if I were Shipachyov, and I'd be questioning my decision to sign with Vegas when other suitors were available. Even if they told me why it was happening, I'd have to realize that it wouldn't likely be happening at all had I signed with another team. That's too bad because I want Vegas to succeed, and how they treat their players in this first season is going to be the first impression that free agents see. Not good.

 

[bleedgreen]

A lot of people are touchy feely about the player and his mental state. He's a pro. He landed a pretty fat NHL contract with zero experience. He's doing well, and a week or two is pretty reasonable. If this situation was more than he can bear he's imo a little too fragile between the ears.

They're not treating him bad. They're paying him very well. I can't see him not getting into the lineup.

 

[beowulf]

So either he does not like it in NA or LV pretty much told him he won't have a regular role? Seems weird for sure.

 

[Soundgarden]

So either he does not like it in NA or LV pretty much told him he won't have a regular role? Seems weird for sure.

His agent has already denied this.

 

[bleedgreen]

I would take his agents opinion over anyone else's. I'm doubting there's any issue here at all other than fans looking forward to seeing him and being frustrated they haven't, and McPhee haters taking their shots.

 

[GoldiFox]

His agent has already denied this.

Honest question: How much money does his agent stand to lose if his client walks because he is super pissed at the mismanagement? This agent had a hand in convincing him to sign there I assume? And Shipachyov won't get paid if he bolts.

I think there is a 0% chance of that happening, just playing devils advocate regarding the agent being a purely objective source.

 

[BLNY]

Honest question: How much money does his agent stand to lose if his client walks because he is super pissed at the mismanagement? This agent had a hand in convincing him to sign there I assume? And Shipachyov won't get paid if he bolts.

I think there is a 0% chance of that happening, just playing devils advocate regarding the agent being a purely objective source.

They make a commission on the contract, typically. I don't know if it's spread out over the life of the contract or paid up front. That may vary and be negotiated between the player and his agent.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Bunch of clowns

 

[hurricanedave]

Everyone keeps suggesting that Vadim was sent down to accommodate Vegas having too many D but he wasn't the only waiver exempt forward on the team... William Carrier is still on his ELC and could have been sent down instead of Vadim. It's not like Will is an offensive boon for a team in need. Whatever their reason for sending Vadim down it doesn't seem like a too many D issue.

 

[BattleBorn]

For all we know, McPhee sat down with Shipachyov before sending him down and they discussed the situation and worked out an agreement IE "you'll be back up in 2 weeks, we're just working out some contract issues and yours is the easiest to send down at the moment"

I doubt this is the case, but it's possible

I think that's a lot closer to the situation than most anything else I've seen.

 

[Blue Goose]

Everyone keeps suggesting that Vadim was sent down to accommodate Vegas having too many D but he wasn't the only waiver exempt forward on the team... William Carrier is still on his ELC and could have been sent down instead of Vadim. It's not like Will is an offensive boon for a team in need. Whatever their reason for sending Vadim down it doesn't seem like a too many D issue.

Carrier is no longer exempt from waivers: https://capfriendly.com/waivers_calculator/william-carrier

And yes, it kinda is a "too many D issue". What's ironic is that SO many people were saying that GMGM should load up on D at the expansion draft because they were the best trade chips, so he did and now these same people are saying he's a moron for not being able to move any of these D. How was he supposed to know the trade market would be this slim?

Honestly, the biggest complication in this whole scenario was the play of Brad Hunt in preseason. When he was signed on July 1, it seemed like a depth move for the AHL team - but he was great in the preseason games, and earned his spot on the roster - I'm guessing GMGM saw something in Hunt that a lot of people didn't, since he gave him a 2-year 1-way deal. The ironic part was that Hunt played better in the preseason than Shippy did, but I understand that it's hard to justify demoting a guy making $4.5M - it's just roster juggling and many of us VGK fans saw it coming. Now we just have to patiently wait it out...

 

[BagHead]

I would take his agents opinion over anyone else's. I'm doubting there's any issue here at all other than fans looking forward to seeing him and being frustrated they haven't, and McPhee haters taking their shots.

I'm speaking against it, and I really don't have strong feelings on McPhee as a GM either way. I just think that this situation looks like incompetence on his part from the outside looking in, and that would make me standoffish as a UFA this summer. I thought he did a fine job assembling his team in the first place, just that he didn't realize that the defenseman market would flood like it did, so didn't get the return he thought he would on some of these guys. And for his work before Vegas: didn't watch it, didn't care.

Someone also mentioned Shipachyov being a pro, and not so "mentally fragile". I don't think it's fragility that would cause a player to get impatient with not playing games, or playing in the AHL, taking a bus to games and playing weaker competition than they'd like to be. Seems more like a competitive spirit, and a player that is used to being a big fish flying around in the sky to a smaller fish suddenly taking the bus. Of course, if the reports about him not liking this are true, then good on him for being patient.

 

[Jumptheshark]

The guy that just dominated KHL and WC , the one that was promised a top six role and who is paid a top six money was sent to the AHL and already missed two regular season games.

This whole situation is truly baffling. Even if he wasn’t the greatest in pre season you dont send down a player of this caliber to the AHL.

They said it’s for roster management purposes so that they can make a trade and get rid of a d man, but he already missed two games and still no news of him being called up.

What’s Vegas doing ?

they are trying to make a trade..as soon as they clear a roster spot he gets recalled. The problem is straight forward--teams are trying to make vegas give up an asset for nothing or next to nothing

VEgas drafted too many D--thinking they would be able to flip them all

If I was vegas I would send Sbisa down--no one would claim him

 

[Vitto79]

Rangers would be a nice fit if he is going to be moved

 

[Curufinwe]

Vegas haven't been able to trade a dman since July 1st.

 

[Privet]

What if Shipya did something or said something that was strictly against VGK policy?

 

[Riptide]

I know this is two games into a season, however - I'm surprised that this isn't an NHLPA issue.

Why would it be one? The player has an NHL contract, and is thus regulated by the CBA, and the CBA says NHL teams can send anyone to the minors who they want to as long as they do not have a clause against it.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

McPhee mistakes

 

[Riptide]

They make a commission on the contract, typically. I don't know if it's spread out over the life of the contract or paid up front. That may vary and be negotiated between the player and his agent.

I'd imagine it's either paid as the player is paid (or some other sort of payment plan) or paid yearly. Otherwise for some of these players, they would be paying their agent a huge sum. Look at the Matheson contract for 39m. He only makes 3.5m that first year - with the signing bonus. Figure he loses 55% of that in taxes and other deductions, and that leaves him with a take home of roughly 1.575m. 3% of his overall contract is 1.17m. Clearly that's not going to work.

 

[tmg]

they are trying to make a trade..as soon as they clear a roster spot he gets recalled. The problem is straight forward--teams are trying to make vegas give up an asset for nothing or next to nothing

Or they’re trying to move player for player. Vegas needs to shed a player for a pick or non-nhl prospect so they have a free roster slot to recall Ship. If other teams can’t spare the roster room or cap space without sending a player back to Vegas - that could create an impasse even if the offer is fair.

 

[cgf]

[snip]

If I was vegas I would send Sbisa down--no one would claim him

That's the problem, Vegas could easily "risk" putting Sbisa or Reinhart on waivers and resolve this right now. That they still haven't is a sign of utter incompetence.