What if Mario had missed?

[YMB29]

And the defections aren't lost players? Russia didn't have any defectors until much later than Czechslovakia. Therefore, the Czechslovakian team was at a stronger disadvantage than the Russian team.

They are lost players, but not in the same sense as we were talking about. Once they defected, they had no chance or desire to play for their national team. So you are saying that two defectors are the reason Czechoslovakia regularly lost to the Soviets?

For years they passed off a totally professional team in every sense of the word and sent it over to beat up on inferior competition consisting of pro rejects and college kids.

Yes for example, in the 1982 WC they beat up on such pro rejects and college kids as Gretzky, Gainey, Lowe, Clarke, Sittler, Vaive, Barber, B. Smith, Ciccarelli, Gartner, Hawerchuk, Propp, Reinhart, Hartsburg.

 

[reckoning]

Yes for example, in the 1982 WC they beat up on such pro rejects and college kids as Gretzky, Gainey, Lowe, Clarke, Sittler, Vaive, Barber, B. Smith, Ciccarelli, Gartner, Hawerchuk, Propp, Reinhart, Hartsburg.

Then the Russians played to a pre-determined 0-0 tie with the Czechs to ensure Canada got a lower medal. A true class act.

 

[espo*]

You know that I'm right about Canada cheating. It's an inconvenient truth, and to feel better about it you have to somehow bash the Russians again and again ... but I don't know why you're doing this, I don't care about the USSR and their medals. You should talk to the Russians.

Bottom line : Canada cheated in 1987. And not just then ...

Well, i 'm talking to you,so what?

If you think Canada cheated and you want to talk about it,why should'nt i be able to talk about the Russians pitiful display of athletic intergrity at the olympics past.

I don't care if you're are'nt Russian.

If you want to talk about cheating i'm here to tell you the Russians wrote the book on it.

Bottom line,Russia cheated in spades.Even if i were to agree with you that Canada chetaed it would'nt change the fact that Russia absolutely did.

so what's your point? Other then you want to have your cake and eat it too like so may other fans of theirs.

 

[espo*]

Quote: Yes for example, in the 1982 WC they beat up on such pro rejects and college kids as Gretzky, Gainey, Lowe, Clarke, Sittler, Vaive, Barber, B. Smith, Ciccarelli, Gartner, Hawerchuk, Propp, Reinhart, Hartsburg.[/QUOTE]




where was i talking about the worlds? i was talking about the olympics,read the post.Do you want me to bring up the players our team had at their disposal there? You think we had Gretzky and others at those things?We could'nt take our pros at that thing because they were professionals like yours were.However,you guys got away with bringing yours of course.How very honourable of you!!! integrity at it's finest.

Nice tactical switch on your part..........changing the discussion from the olympics to the worlds.I know why you did it,because you know they were cheating disgracefully at the olympics and you don't wan't to touch that with a ten foot pole. What could you possibly say?

Russia was cheating.There is a lot of gold medals in the hands of Russian players to this day that don't deserve it.Are you denying the Soviets were cheating at the olympics at that time?

 

[Zine]

Quote: Yes for example, in the 1982 WC they beat up on such pro rejects and college kids as Gretzky, Gainey, Lowe, Clarke, Sittler, Vaive, Barber, B. Smith, Ciccarelli, Gartner, Hawerchuk, Propp, Reinhart, Hartsburg




where was i talking about the worlds? i was talking about the olympics,read the post.Do you want me to bring up the players our team had at their disposal there? You think we had Gretzky and others at those things?We could'nt take our pros at that thing because they were professionals like yours were.However,you guys got away with bringing yours of course.How very honourable of you!!! integrity at it's finest.

Nice tactical switch on your part..........changing the discussion from the olympics to the worlds.I know why you did it,because you know they were cheating disgracefully at the olympics and you don't wan't to touch that with a ten foot pole. What could you possibly say?

Russia was cheating.There is a lot of gold medals in the hands of Russian players to this day that don't deserve it.Are you denying the Soviets were cheating at the olympics at that time?

Again, how were the Russians cheating? If the Russians were cheating so were the Swedes, Czechs, and Finns. EVERYBODY but the N.A's sent their best teams (especially in the 1970's when most euros were not in the NHL).

You may see those medals as illegitimate or tainted; and rightfully so - but the Soviets didn't 'cheat' to get them. They just had the luxury of sending their best teams while others (Canada, USA) did not.

An example of cheating is a premeditated attack on another player that could determine a games outcome. Perhaps, a slash to the ankle of one of the opposing teams' best players.

 

[espo*]

Again, how were the Russians cheating? If the Russians were cheating so were the Swedes, Czechs, and Finns. EVERYBODY but the N.A's sent their best teams (especially in the 1970's when most euros were not in the NHL).

You may see those medals as illegitimate or tainted; and rightfully so - but the Soviets didn't 'cheat' to get them. They just had the luxury of sending their best teams while others (Canada, USA) did not.

An example of cheating is a premeditated attack on another player that could determine a games outcome. Perhaps, a slash to the ankle of one of the opposing teams' best players.

You mean to tell me you think the Soviet team were amateurs? If they were not amateurs they were being deceitful and indeed were cheating.Professional players were not supposed to be allowed to play at the olympics and the Soviets players were all professionals.Hence the reason we could'nt send pros until 1998 when the rules were changed.You guys managed to find ways around the rules to send your pro players.

That's cheating and you know it.

cmon zine...........enough. I can tell by your posts you're smarter then this.

you may be biased to suit what you so desperately want to believe but stupid you are not.

I hope you are not back to insulting your intelligence in your next reply to me.

 

[Zine]

You mean to tell me you think the Soviet team were amateurs? If they were not amateurs they were being deceitful and indeed were cheating.Professional players were not supposed to be allowed to play at the olympics and the Soviets players were all professionals.Hence the reason we could'nt send pros until 1998 when the rules were changed.You guys managed to find ways around the rules to send your pro players.

That's cheating and you know it.

cmon zine...........enough. I can tell by your posts you're smarter then this.

you may be biased to suit what you so desperately want to believe but stupid you are not.

I hope you are not back to insulting your intelligence in your next reply to me.

If you want to get technical about it, I agree with you....you're right.

However, that would also implicate every other non-NA country as well. I notice you have a hard time accepting the fact that every non-NA team was on equal footing with the Soviets. Please don't imply that every other country not named Canada was at a disadvantage againt the big bad Soviets, 'cause it just isn't so.

Errr....wait a minute.....didn't Canada use some professionals before 1998. Of course they did. Don't cite numbers or say it was a case of 'keeping up with the Jones'....you're the one getting technical about 'cheating' and 'amateurism' and, therefore, (by your own standards) Canada should be considered cheaters and held to the same level of scruitny you hold the Soviets.

May I remind you that you were the one who said If they were not amateurs they were being deceitful and indeed were cheating .
However, I'm fully expecting you to dance around this one and let Canada off the hook.

 

[espo*]

If you want to get technical about it, I agree with you....you're right.

However, that would also implicate every other non-NA country as well. I notice you have a hard time accepting the fact that every non-NA team was on equal footing with the Soviets. Please don't imply that every other country not named Canada was at a disadvantage againt the big bad Soviets, 'cause it just isn't so.

Errr....wait a minute.....didn't Canada use some professionals before 1998. Of course they did. Don't cite numbers or say it was a case of 'keeping up with the Jones'....you're the one getting technical about 'cheating' and 'amateurism' and, therefore, (by your own standards) Canada should be considered cheaters and held to the same level of scruitny you hold the Soviets.

May I remind you that you were the one who said If they were not amateurs they were being deceitful and indeed were cheating .
However, I'm fully expecting you to dance around this one and let Canada off the hook.

I don't have a problem admitting non NA teams were using their best players but i'm not talking about them,i'm talking about the Soviets,that's why i have'nt bothered saying anything about them.

still,i won't hold the czechs to the same standard of the soviets either,they had no choice but to do what they did considering they were under the repressive yolk of the Soviet regime at tha time.What could they do? We saw what would happen when they tried that card.

As for Canada,what pros are you talking about? Some guys who were'nt playing in the nhl at the time? big deal.Talk to me when Wayne Gretzky was being hauled out of the nhl by the Canadian givernment and given a phony job as a janitor so he could play for us there.


The brass tax is that the Soviets were'nt supposed to be using pro players and they were,their very best at that.

That's still cheating.And if it is cheating (regardless of whether Canada is cheating too) let's not keep up this game that Canada was the only team cheating.

Let's see if i can get this out of any of you.Say i grant you that Canada was cheating and has won tournaments because of it...............................will you also agree Russia has engaged in cheating to a great degree in it's history and has won loads of tournaments because of it?

Or will YOU dance around this?

 

[Paxton Fettel]

cyclops I think you're confusing politics with hockey.

when you say that the Soviets cheated, it just wasn't the case, because in communist countries such as the USSR and Czechoslovakia there were no pro athletes. well of course it doesn't mean they weren't training and playing like pros, because they were, but my point is that it was all about politics. blame communism. but there was no cheating on the hockey level on the part of the Soviets. (and seriously, does anyone really care about the Olympic medals won before 98??? )

but Canada, it's a different story. they simply had a referee protecting their interests during hockey games. and since it was the Canada Cup, Canada's opponents could never protest about anything since it was a private tournament.

 

[Zine]

I don't have a problem admitting non NA teams were using their best players but i'm not talking about them,i'm talking about the Soviets,that's why i have'nt bothered saying anything about them.

But, in another discussion topic, you WERE talking about them. You CLEARLY referred to other non-NA teams as if they were at a disadvantage against the Soviets. In regards to the WC you stated: It's just that other countries could have been just as good in that tournament under the same circumstances.

Yet, now you admit that non-NA teams were using their best players. You are contradicting yourself here. What exact circumstances were you talking about if you now admit other Euro teams were also using their best players? Please answer.

As for Canada,what pros are you talking about? Some guys who were'nt playing in the nhl at the time? big deal.Talk to me when Wayne Gretzky was being hauled out of the nhl by the Canadian givernment and given a phony job as a janitor so he could play for us there.

The brass tax is that the Soviets were'nt supposed to be using pro players and they were,their very best at that.

That's still cheating.And if it is cheating (regardless of whether Canada is cheating too) let's not keep up this game that Canada was the only team cheating.

Now you’re backpedaling. Contradictory to your previous post, you are now not arguing the notion of ‘cheating’ and ‘amateurism’; now it’s that Canada didn’t cheat with Gretzky, etc……….just as I predicted you would.

Let's see if i can get this out of any of you.Say i grant you that Canada was cheating and has won tournaments because of it...............................will you also agree Russia has engaged in cheating to a great degree in it's history and has won loads of tournaments because of it?

Or will YOU dance around this?

I’ve said I can understand how some may view Canada as cheaters, but I’ve NEVER outright accused Canada of cheating, nor do I think that (although I’m not surprised you think this due to your juvenile generalizations). Find a quote of me saying it. Do it.

I don’t think that Canada or the Soviet Union ever outright cheated.
Both countries deserve everything they won, however; certain victories (by both sides) could be construed as not being legitimate because of certain circumstances surrounding those victories. As I’ve stated in a previous post, I think the only ‘outright’ legitimate victories have been those in the Summit Series, the last 3 Olympic games (due to the neutrality) and the ’81 CC (seeing that the Soviets won despite the absurdly pro-Canadian odds they were up against). Every other tourney, no matter how meaningful, should be taken with a grain of salt.....the olympics/WC because not every team had their best players; and the CC because the Canadians set that up for themselves to win.

You're entitled to your oppinions (as is everybody else), but you come off as biased and insecure with statements like:

But you won't get away with disrespecting our victories as long as i'm around here.

Like I've said before, same thing.....other side of the fence.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

They are lost players, but not in the same sense as we were talking about. Once they defected, they had no chance or desire to play for their national team. So you are saying that two defectors are the reason Czechoslovakia regularly lost to the Soviets?

What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter why players were unavailable. What matters is that the Czechslovakian team did not have access to all Czechslovakian born/trained players, while the Russians had access to all Russian born/trained players. Thus, the Russians did have an advantage over all other European teams. Just because Sweden and Finland let players go to North America whil Czechslovakian players defected, doesn't change the fact that all three countries were not able to ice the best combonation of native born/trained players.

 

[Karamahti*]

but there was no cheating on the hockey level on the part of the Soviets. (and seriously, does anyone really care about the Olympic medals won before 98??? )

Are you kidding me? The soviets never cheated in hockey? What about 1982 world championships where soviets and Czechoslovakia conveniantly played a 0-0 tie which was the only score that would get soviets a gold medal and Czechoslovakia silver and drop Gretzkys Canada to third? And 1988 Calgary olympics where crappy team Finland won soviets in the last game dropping Canada from medals? After the game Tikhonov came in to the Finns locker room smiling and laughing and congratulated everyone. What about all those accusations made that soviets used steroids? When are they gonna open up their achives like the germans did so everyone can see what went on in those practise centers..?

 

[espo*]

Zine: you come away still saying the last 3 olympics,the summit series and the 81 Canada cup are the only tournaments that you put any real weight in (the tremendous odds you were up against being cited for you granting honour to the Soviets win in 81))I'll always disagree with this of course.The advantages we had at those tournaments were more then offset in terms of the huge advantages the Soviet teams had by being able to prepare as a team year-round.That advantage is unmeasureable,i still don't think russian fans have come to grasp with the reality of that yet, your teams had a tremendous advantage because of it and recent history has shown just how big an avantage it was.

The old Soviet teams were thouroghly prepared to play on any rink,at any time under any circumstances and it showed in their play(which was tremendous in all honesty).In 84 and 87...............they just got slightly outplayed without question.Hey!! no embarrasment or need to deny this,you were facing Canadian teams with a great amount of talent.there is no disgrace in coming up short against teams that feature players like gretzky,Mario,Bossy etc.You could'nt expect to win them all against that kind of opposition.it was inevitable that you were not going to be able to beat our teams all the time considering the talent available to us (eventhough we could'nt take that talent and team build like you guys) our players were just too good and they showed that.

You could have had the tournament anywhere under any rules and you surely would not have beaten Canada all the time, the talent at our disposal at that time just makes domination against us impossible,even for those Soviet teams.I'm sorry but considering the realities i've just pointed out,no serious Canada fan is going to give you glory for 81 while discounting 87 and 84.If we are going to bend on 87 and 84 you'll have to bend on 81 and strike it off as anything other then a fluke win but i can't see you doing that right? Then don't expect us to please.



While you say you don't say Canada cheated (you say both did'nt) you still have difficulty giving legitimacy to victories both teams played against us when both sent their best teams and players except 1981.this is still a problem to me.

But i think it's a problem that is un-fixable.You are going to think the way you think and i am going to think the way i think.

You think certain wins are legitimate and certain ones are'nt and i think EVERY win in best on best competitions are legitimate,be they the Czechs in 98,Swedes in 06 Canada in 04, or Soviets in 81.

And i have to tell you straight out here, i think my attitude is not only more reasonable but more honourable too.

But i'm not going to be able to convince you or others of this and i'm just going to have to live with that. At least you're not calling all of Canada's victories the result of cheating.

There is at least some middle ground with you,i don't sense this total unflexibility and out-right lunacy that i'm reading from some of your fans.

 

[Marcus-74]

The Soviets and the use of illegal substances... Now there´s an interesting subject! Many old Finnish players are convinced that the Soviets used them and say that the doping tests were a big joke when the Soviet players were concerned.

That nobody got caught is a quite weak argument since the same thing could be said about East Germany (in athletics) and that, as we know (now), doesn´t prove a damn thing.

Still, hockey has lot more sides to it than just conditioning and strength. And interestingly I don´t remember the Canadians, for instance, making too many claims about this.

BTW, I just read Tretiak´s book which he wrote in the late seventies and let´s just say that if the Soviets indeed used those substances, Tretiak is the most hypocritical person in the world. He totally condemns doping and says he knows nothing about it. Larionov´s book, on the other hand, has a slightly different view on the matter.

 

[Lunatik*]

He'd be cheering for the sens in no time

i would have thought Nashville

 

[MLSE]

With all these whys and what ifs it got me thinking of thise for some reason.

why is Jadakiss as hard as it gets
Why is the industry designed to keep the artist in debt
And why them dudes ain't ridin' if there part of your set
And why they never get it poppin' but they party to death
Yea, and why they gon give you life for a murder
Turn around only give you eight months for a burner, it's goin down
Why they sellin' Racial Slurz CD's for under a dime
If it's all love daddy why you come wit your nine
Why my Racial Slurz ain't get that cake
Why is a brother up North better than Jordan
That ain't get that break
Why you ain't stackin' instead of tryin' to be fly
Why is rattin' at an all time high
Why are you even alive
Why they kill Tupac n' Chris
Why at the bar you ain't take straight shots instead of poppin Crist'
Why them bullets have to hit that door
Why did Kobe have to hit that raw
Why he kiss that whore
Why
All that I been givin'
Is this thing that I've been living
They got me in the system
Why they gotta do me like that
Try'd to make it my way
But got sent up on the highway
Why, oh why
Why they do me like that
Why would Racial Slurz push pounds and powder
Why did bush knock down the towers
Why you around them cowards
Why Aaliyah have to take that flight
Why my ***** D ain't pull out his Ferrari
Why he take that bike
Why they gotta open your package and read your mail
Why they stop lettin' Racial Slurz get degreez in jail
Why you gotta do eighty-five percent of your time
And why do Racial Slurz lie in eighty-five percent of they rhymes
Why a ***** always want what he can't have
Why I can't come through in the pecan Jag
Why did crack have to hit so hard
Even though it's almost over
Why Racial Slurz can't get no jobs
Why they come up wit the witness protection
Why they let the terminator win the election
Come on, pay attention
Why sell in the stores what you can sell in the streets
Why I say the hottest **** but we sellin' the least
Uh, yea, yo
Why Halle have to let a white man pop her to get a Oscar
Why Denzel have to be crooked before he took it
Why they didn't make the CL6 wit a clutch
And if you don't smoke why the hell you reachin' for my dutch
Why rap, cause I need air time
Why be on the curb wit a "why lie I need a beer" sign
Why all the young Racial Slurz is dyin'
Cause they moms at work, they pops is gone, they livin' wit iron
Why they ain't give us a cure for aids
Why my diesel have fiends in the spot on the floor for days
Why you screamin' like it's slug, it's only the hawk
Why my buzz in L.A. ain't like it is in New York
Why you forcin' you to be hard
Why ain't you a thug by choice
Why the whole world love my voice
Why try to tell 'em that it's the flow son
And you know why they made the new twenties
Cause I got all my old ones
That's why

 

[Tighina]

That is their fault only. And in the World Championships there were more games to play and get the team together, it is not like the World Cup where only the finalists play six games.

Yeah? So why is Russia, who arguably has the most talent of all European teams consistently sh***ing out of the WC for the last 13 years?
Precisely because now we are in the same condition as Canada was 20 years ago, roster-wise.

It did not have status in North America because Canada was not winning it.
Maybe it was not attended by the best players of every country, but mostly all countries besides Canada had their best.

Well, since Canada happens to be an elite hockey team, it's a pretty big missing piece, no? Like I said, the WC was the highest level EUROPEAN tournament. When it comes to being the best in the world, outside of North America, this is where you had to prove yourself. So, it is the Swedes and the Czechs who should be impressed with our multiple victories.
Canadians, since they didn't participate with their best players, are not the ones who you should brag to.
It's like saying to Mike Tyson: "Well, I can beat you grandma, biatch, so gimme some props!"

When did he say that? What? Explain.

You don't know your own history and I am not a teacher.

Well why?

You don't know hockey and I am not a coach.

And they are not obligated to accomodate the NHL.

Well, then. Everything is fine. The WC is played without the best available players, the NHL goes on earning profit and awarding the Stanley Cup, both sides are happy.
With the exception of certain insecure individuals who JUST HAVE to go on the Web and pester every Canadian they see with silly requests to acknowledge Russia's greatness based on results in a tournament North America ignored.

Russia's greatness doesn't need you with your misinformed mouth-frothing to be acknowledged. Those who have a jock-strap-full's worth of hockey knowledge know that Russia is a great hockey country.

They could have paused the NHL season and playoffs, but maybe Canadians thought they could not win anyway, so they created the Canada Cup to show that they are still a hockey superpower.

The Canada Cup was created because of the success of the 1972 Summit Series and the big interest in international competition that was awakened by it. Fueled in huge part by political and, especially, financial reasons. This was the only way to cash in on such an idea and it was brilliantly implemented.

Pausing the NHL season and playoffs every year so that Canadian and US players could travel abroad and play in a tournament nobody gives a damn about... Do you regularly travel to Tula with your own samovar?

 

[YMB29]

What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter why players were unavailable. What matters is that the Czechslovakian team did not have access to all Czechslovakian born/trained players, while the Russians had access to all Russian born/trained players. Thus, the Russians did have an advantage over all other European teams. Just because Sweden and Finland let players go to North America whil Czechslovakian players defected, doesn't change the fact that all three countries were not able to ice the best combonation of native born/trained players.

So two players for Czechoslovakia don't play and this alone makes them weaker than the Soviets? Missing a couple of players does not decide the outcome. The same goes for the other teams you mentioned.

where was i talking about the worlds? i was talking about the olympics,read the post.Do you want me to bring up the players our team had at their disposal there? You think we had Gretzky and others at those things?We could'nt take our pros at that thing because they were professionals like yours were.However,you guys got away with bringing yours of course.How very honourable of you!!! integrity at it's finest.

Nice tactical switch on your part..........changing the discussion from the olympics to the worlds.I know why you did it,because you know they were cheating disgracefully at the olympics and you don't wan't to touch that with a ten foot pole. What could you possibly say?

Olympics? I thought we were talking about the World Championships.

Russia was cheating.There is a lot of gold medals in the hands of Russian players to this day that don't deserve it.Are you denying the Soviets were cheating at the olympics at that time?

That was not cheating since they were allowed to play. Keep whining.

In 84 and 87...............they just got slightly outplayed without question.

Outplayed? I am not mentioning 87 again, but in 84 they beat Canada 6-3 and lost in overtime on a lucky goal (from what I read). That is not "slightly outplayed without question".

The advantages we had at those tournaments were more then offset in terms of the huge advantages the Soviet teams had by being able to prepare as a team year-round.

So convenient for you to think that.

don't sense this total unflexibility and out-right lunacy that i'm reading from some of your fans.

You are the one who shows lunacy here - going into a tirade about Russians when someone mentions Canada winning unfairly.

Yeah? So why is Russia, who arguably has the most talent of all European teams consistently sh***ing out of the WC for the last 13 years?
Precisely because now we are in the same condition as Canada was 20 years ago, roster-wise.

No, it is not the same condition. As I said before, Russia sucks now mostly because of the many problems with the oraganization of its hockey and player dedication (has Canada had anyone refuse to play?).

Canadians, since they didn't participate with their best players, are not the ones who you should brag to.

They had the chance to.
And just because they did not, it should not discredit the Soviet victories.

You don't know your own history and I am not a teacher.

You don't know hockey and I am not a coach.

Don't want to explain? Then you won't be able to prove your point.

With the exception of certain insecure individuals who JUST HAVE to go on the Web and pester every Canadian they see with silly requests to acknowledge Russia's greatness based on results in a tournament North America ignored.

Stop making dumb assumptions about me.

Russia's greatness doesn't need you with your misinformed mouth-frothing to be acknowledged.

And it does not need you with your feelings of inferiority caused by you growing up in North America where Soviet accomplishments are put down and disregarded.

Pausing the NHL season and playoffs every year so that Canadian and US players could travel abroad and play in a tournament nobody gives a damn about

If they did not give a damn about it, why did they send teams at all and why did many good players play on them?

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

So two players for Czechoslovakia don't play and this alone makes them weaker than the Soviets? Missing a couple of players does not decide the outcome. The same goes for the other teams you mentioned.

I'm not saying it decided the outcome, I'm saying it gave Russian an advantage. Why is this even so contentious? This is so simple and obvious! What are you even debating?

 

[YMB29]

An insignificant advantage.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

An insignificant advantage.

Peter Stanstny is insignifiant?

 

[Karamahti*]

So two players for Czechoslovakia don't play and this alone makes them weaker than the Soviets? Missing a couple of players does not decide the outcome. The same goes for the other teams you mentioned.

If you wouldn´t be so ignorant, you would know that Sweden was missing a team full of players that were in the NHL including Salming, Nilsson, Näsluns etc, Finland maybe dozen incl. Kurri, Tikkanen, Ruotsalainen etc, Czechoslovakia had three Stastnys, Hlinka etc. I´d say that gave a "slight" edge to soviets.

 

[espo*]

That was not cheating since they were allowed to play. Keep whining.

And they were allowed to play because of the deceit of the Russian hockey federationa nd government. How convenient of you to not mention this

Outplayed? I am not mentioning 87 again, but in 84 they beat Canada 6-3 and lost in overtime on a lucky goal (from what I read). That is not "slightly outplayed without question".

Outplayed,as in lost those games.Must Russia get beaten 17-0 for teams to declare victory over them?

So convenient for you to think that.

Why not? it's true.You have no trouble whining about whatever percieved advantages had but seem to be tottaly blind towards the advantages the soviet Union had over us,and it was a big advantage. Once again,how convenient for you!!


You are the one who shows lunacy here - going into a tirade about Russians when someone mentions Canada winning unfairly.

You're off the wall kid,or at least acting like it. when everything that your opponent has ever won is disregarded but everything you have ever won is considered greatness..............you'll come off looking like a mental patient.Just like you have done in each and every post you've made so far.


No, it is not the same condition. As I said before, Russia sucks now mostly because of the many problems with the oraganization of its hockey and player dedication (has Canada had anyone refuse to play?).

It's partly the problem but not the biggest.They don't dominate like they used to because they don't have the same advantages that they used to,not because a guy here and there won't play for them.Canada has had plenty of players who did'nt play for them at tournaments in the past such as Mario Lemieux,Bourque.......the list goes on and on.And we always had players who COULD'nt play for us at the worlds and olympics. Any way you cut it any rational fan will accept that Russias end of dominance at certain tournaments is clearly the result of the end of the Soviet union system and the imbalance existing in those times.to deny this is to once again make yourself look like you're totally off the wall.


Seriously,stop now and cut your losses.You come across real bad here.

 

[YMB29]

Peter Stanstny is insignifiant?

When you look at the whole picture he is. One player won't make a difference in the outcome of tournaments over the years.

If you wouldn´t be so ignorant, you would know that Sweden was missing a team full of players that were in the NHL including Salming, Nilsson, Näsluns etc, Finland maybe dozen incl. Kurri, Tikkanen, Ruotsalainen etc, Czechoslovakia had three Stastnys, Hlinka etc. I´d say that gave a "slight" edge to soviets

Ignorance is your problem.
We already talked about Hlinka and the Stastnys.
For the rest, you assume that if they played in the NHL, they did not play in the World Championships. All the players you mentioned played in the World Championships, maybe not every year, but the Soviets beat their teams both with them and without them in the line up.

And they were allowed to play because of the deceit of the Russian hockey federationa nd government. How convenient of you to not mention this

What deceit? IOC were fools to be deceited so easily?

Outplayed,as in lost those games.Must Russia get beaten 17-0 for teams to declare victory over them?

No, just a more decisive victory than that after losing decisively.

Why not? it's true.You have no trouble whining about whatever percieved advantages had but seem to be tottaly blind towards the advantages the soviet Union had over us,and it was a big advantage. Once again,how convenient for you!!

You think that the advantage of home ice, rules, and referees give a lesser advantage? Then you are being blind; these are the biggest advantages a team can have.
And again, Canadian hockey is not nearly as much based on players playing with each other for long periods of time.

You're off the wall kid,or at least acting like it. when everything that your opponent has ever won is disregarded but everything you have ever won is considered greatness..............you'll come off looking like a mental patient.Just like you have done in each and every post you've made so far.

Anyone reading this thread will see that you are much more likely the one in need of mental help. When did I disregard everything that Canada won? You are doing that about the Soviets.

It's partly the problem but not the biggest.They don't dominate like they used to because they don't have the same advantages that they used to,not because a guy here and there won't play for them.

What advantages did they have over European team? Like I said it is not as simple as because Russian players now play in the NHL.
And I said that someone refusing to play is only one reason.

Canada has had plenty of players who did'nt play for them at tournaments in the past such as Mario Lemieux,Bourque.......the list goes on and on.And we always had players who COULD'nt play for us at the worlds and olympics.

I said those who refused when they could have.

Any way you cut it any rational fan will accept that Russias end of dominance at certain tournaments is clearly the result of the end of the Soviet union system and the imbalance existing in those times.to deny this is to once again make yourself look like you're totally off the wall.

What you are saying is part of Canadian reasoning to dismiss Soviet victories. It is not like it is fair now and was unfair then. What imbalances? You make it seem like the collapse of the system made everything fair. Again, it did not and it left Russian hockey with many problem other hockey countries did not face.

Seriously,stop now and cut your losses.You come across real bad here.

You should stop repeating the same excuses and whining over and over.

 

[espo*]

The guy who has done nothing but whine since he entered this thread telling people they are whiners.

It just keeps getting better and better. What can we expect next from you?