What happens if Carolina fails to make the playoffs again?

[Anton Babchuk]

hav capn'd #manyteams most notably #2006stanlycupchampioncarolinehcane

#havsecretlybeenrobbrind'amourallthistime

#whowouldhavethot

 

[geehaad]

the topic isn't leadership, the topic is that horrendous trade proposal

The topic is "What happens if Carolina fails to make the playoffs again?".

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

An Eric Staal who doesn't try 50% of the time is still a better hockey player than any of the players we are getting back. By far.

The sarcasm really comes out in full when you try to have a rational discussion about Eric Staal's failings as captain of this team.

When the topic is leadership, I just don't understand what people see in him. Alex Semin can score a crap-ton of points, but that would not get him nominated to be captain of any team. Who gives a **** about points.

How many of you who are defending Staal have ever captained a team?

Leadership is overrated (at least in the context of a Staal trade).

Last year, it was Staal, Staal, Gleason and a bunch of kids. Our lack of leadership was a major problem.

This year, we have a ton of veteran leaders. Malhotra, Hainsey, Dvorak, Komisarek, Sekera in addition to the Staals. And guess what? We still suck.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

The topic is "What happens if Carolina fails to make the playoffs again?".

so the topic wasn't leadership?

the trade proposal is a doomsday scenario in a bleak and terrifying future

 

[Blueline Bomber]

This year, we have a ton of veteran leaders. Malhotra, Hainsey, Dvorak, Komisarek, Sekera in addition to the Staals. And guess what? We still suck.

None of whom have been here long enough to realize Staal's a **** leader and they'd likely have to step on some toes to bring that leadership to the lockerroom.

Hell, 4 of those 5 are probably just happy to have a job. Isn't Sekera the only one that wasn't a last minute signing/cast off from their former team?

 

[tarheelhockey]

Are we really back to speculating about what kind of leader Staal is? Haven't we had this conversation about 100 times and it's always come down to not knowing what goes on in the locker room?

 

[Anton Babchuk]

um wasn't malhotra already given an #A and justinpeters talked about how big influence he's been in the room? maybe team just sucks

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

While we have no idea what goes on in the room, what we do know is that a) the team has consistently failed to show up in key games over the years across multiple coaches, b) the team seems to consistently go into slumps that they can't get out of which many times coincides with his play, c) Staal takes a lot of bad / lazy penalties and d) he has a history of not working hard in the defensive zone , cheating to try and get offense and staying out there for too long, etc..

There's leadership in the locker room we can't see, and leadership on the ice which we can see, but obviously people can interpret it however they choose.

 

[geehaad]

The issue isn't the number of leaders, it's accountability. When your captain is lazy, it creates a situation where you can't hold the feet of the minions to the fire for similar transgressions. Jeff Skinner scores points, great...but we've all seen him be lazy as hell and it lead to goals against (his leaving of the zone early when Fayne scored on Friday, for example). When your captain does that routinely, how are you going to call anyone else out for it?

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Are we really back to speculating about what kind of leader Staal is? Haven't we had this conversation about 100 times and it's always come down to not knowing what goes on in the locker room?

IIRC, it's been stated that Staal's not the type to be very vocal in the lockerroom and "prefers to lead by example on the ice"

And that's the issue. If his performance on the ice is him "leading by example", it's no wonder this team looks like **** for two periods every game.

Also, the two posts above.

 

[tarheelhockey]

While we have no idea what goes on in the room, what we do know is that a) the team has consistently failed to show up in key games over the years across multiple coaches, b) the team seems to consistently go into slumps that they can't get out of which many times coincides with his play, c) Staal takes a lot of bad / lazy penalties and d) he has a history of not working hard in the defensive zone , cheating to try and get offense and staying out there for too long, etc..

There's leadership in the locker room we can't see, and leadership on the ice which we can see, but obviously people can interpret it however they choose.

I have no problem with blaming him for c) and d), and maybe 50% of b).

But I'm sorry, I do have an issue with saying that Jeff Skinner can't be bothered to play defense because Eric Staal doesn't skate hard enough.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

While we have no idea what goes on in the room, what we do know is that a) the team has consistently failed to show up in key games over the years across multiple coaches, b) the team seems to consistently go into slumps that they can't get out of which many times coincides with his play,

These are things that are common to all teams in the NHL. To all teams in professional sports.

I don't see how this is the fault of Staal's leadership.

None of whom have been here long enough to realize Staal's a **** leader and they'd likely have to step on some toes to bring that leadership to the lockerroom.

Hell, 4 of those 5 are probably just happy to have a job. Isn't Sekera the only one that wasn't a last minute signing/cast off from their former team?

We suck because:

--The leadership in the room hasn't realized that Staal is a terrible leader.

Or:

--Our roster is poorly constructed.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

These are things that are common to all teams in the NHL. To all teams in professional sports.

I don't see how this is the fault of Staal's leadership.

No, it's not common to the same extent to all teams. And nowhere did I say that falls solely on his leadership. But but I contend that's one element of it, particularly when you look at how he plays and performs during those stints and when you add the other two items I mentioned that you neglected to include.

We suck because:

--The leadership in the room hasn't realized that Staal is a terrible leader.
Or:
--Our roster is poorly constructed.

Or maybe both? I agree the roster is poorly constructed, but when the guy who is the face of your franchise, and paid almost 15% of your total payroll isn't performing and is showing lack of consistent effort, taking bad penalties, etc... that's a problem. Not sure why you'd argue otherwise.

 

[FlyingSquirrels]

He and others argue because they simply look at stats. "He's a 70 point guy, so he must be good!"

Eric Staal is above reproach around here and is absolutely NOT held accountable for his slack play nor his poor leadership. He has had every single thing handed to him on a silver platter upon his arrival here, so I can't blame him for being unmotivated. He's only human.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

If we're going to talk about the failures across "multiple coaches", how about talking about the team having the same issues under multiple captains? Who was the captain when the team missed the playoffs two straight years after winning the Cup--sounds pretty inconsistent to me. Who was the captain who led us to the 14-game losing streak? Failure to show up in key games? Don't recall Eric Staal being the captain for the chokefest in 2008, or losing three straight with the playoffs on the line in 2007. These issues were going on long before Staal was named captain, only then it was heresy to question leadershipz.

 

[What the Faulk]

If we're going to talk about the failures across "multiple coaches", how about talking about the team having the same issues under multiple captains? Who was the captain when the team missed the playoffs two straight years after winning the Cup--sounds pretty inconsistent to me. Who was the captain who led us to the 14-game losing streak? Failure to show up in key games? Don't recall Eric Staal being the captain for the chokefest in 2008, or losing three straight with the playoffs on the line in 2007. These issues were going on long before Staal was named captain, only then it was heresy to question leadershipz.

I made that argument at one point but I don't think it got any traction. You can even take this back to Francis, though. 02-Previous Lockout were some pretty ****** years.

So where does the buck stop? There's been one constant over that time frame.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

I made that argument at one point but I don't think it got any traction. You can even take this back to Francis, though. 02-Previous Lockout were some pretty ****** years.

So where does the buck stop? There's been one constant over that time frame.

exactly what i've been saying

if anyone wants this team to get better, it has to get rid of the one thing that has stayed the same.

its time for this team to leave north carolina

 

[Anton Babchuk]

Blaming Staal is the same deal with blaming Mo. With the way people talk about this team you would assume that this was a perennially competitive team with Brind'amour/Francis and then all of the sudden Staal came along and they suck. Did any of you guys happen to watch the season in which Brind'amour was stripped of his captaincy? The team was consistently mediocre-to-terrible for four seasons after the team won the Cup outside of a fluke hot streak in 09. I suspect any Staal trade/removal of captaincy will pretty much have the effect the last two coaching changes did: absolutely none. Keep putting ****** rosters on the ice year after and this is what you get. How many captains has JR had? How many coaches?

You guys expect a competitive team because you have Ryan ****ing Callahan being all gritty and leadershippy when Rod Brind'amour couldn't even lead this team to even the 8th seed half the time? ****ing lolz.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

Blaming Staal is the same deal with blaming Mo. With the way people talk about this team you would assume that this was a perennially competitive team with Brind'amour/Francis and then all of the sudden Staal came along and they suck. Did any of you guys happen to watch the season in which Brind'amour was stripped of his captaincy? The team was consistently mediocre-to-terrible for four seasons after the team won the Cup outside of a fluke hot streak in 09. I suspect any Staal trade/removal of captaincy will pretty much have the effect the last two coaching changes did: absolutely none. Keep putting ****** rosters on the ice year after and this is what you get. How many captains has JR had? How many coaches?

You guys expect a competitive team because you have Ryan ****ing Callahan being all gritty and leadershippy when Rod Brind'amour couldn't even lead this team to even the 8th seed half the time? ****ing lolz.

no, you dont understand

staal is lazy and actively hates winning and defense and #grit

i think it is because he makes a lot of money

 

[nobuddy]

I don't think you guys bashing that trade have any idea how good Derek Stepan is. Callahan and Girardi are being underestimated also.

Also, no one's arguing that that team would be a contender right now. Stepan, Skinner, Semin, Lindholm, and Callahan would be a hell of a core to build a top six around. Three of them are above average playmakers (we really lack this now), four of them are above average goal scorers, and Callahan is leadership personified (though I don't buy into the Eric is an awful leader and that's why we suck rhetoric).

Of course I would want some sort of a sign and trade aspect with Callahan and Girardi. It wouldn't be worth it without some sort of an agreement in place.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Blaming Staal is the same deal with blaming Mo. With the way people talk about this team you would assume that this was a perennially competitive team with Brind'amour/Francis and then all of the sudden Staal came along and they suck. Did any of you guys happen to watch the season in which Brind'amour was stripped of his captaincy? The team was consistently mediocre-to-terrible for four seasons after the team won the Cup outside of a fluke hot streak in 09. I suspect any Staal trade/removal of captaincy will pretty much have the effect the last two coaching changes did: absolutely none. Keep putting ****** rosters on the ice year after and this is what you get. How many captains has JR had? How many coaches?

You guys expect a competitive team because you have Ryan ****ing Callahan being all gritty and leadershippy, yet Rod Brind'amour couldn't even lead this team to even the 8th seed half the time? ****ing lolz.

Stripping Staal of the captaincy or trading him to the proposed trade (which I said earlier was a bad trade) really won't help. I'm not even recommending that he be traded. But answer this. Can you honestly watch him not give consistent effort night in and night out and not question his leadership? Especially for a guy that says he leads by example?

If so, then we see things differently.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Of course I would want some sort of a sign and trade aspect with Callahan and Girardi. It wouldn't be worth it without some sort of an agreement in place.

That's the rub though. That sounds good on a message board, but won't happen. Those guys would have to be severely overpaid to even have a chance to any kind of sign and trade deal (which rarely happen). They'd look at it as going to a rebuilding team so why do that when they can cash in as a UFA and go wherever they want.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Well, if we ignore the obvious of "Both Brindamour and Francis have led teams deep into the playoffs", there's also the little thing about both being given leadership roles outside of their play for the Hurricanes. Brindamour wore the A for Philly and I believe Francis wore an A for Pittsburgh when he was there.

And neither of those teams were exactly hurting for potential leader candidates, so to have them earn those roles regardless says a lot.

But when it comes down to it, if you can't tell that there's a noticeable difference between how Francis/Brindamour approached and played the game and how Eric approaches and plays the game, there's no talking to you

 

[garnetpalmetto]

exactly what i've been saying

if anyone wants this team to get better, it has to get rid of the one thing that has stayed the same.

its time for this team to leave north carolina

Time for the PK heel turn that some users dream of and announce that the team is relocating and that the Whalers are back. The Plymouth Whalers that is.

 

[geehaad]

I very nearly started an "Eric Staal is a terrible captain" thread after the first game of the year, when at the outset of the 3rd period he skated right by Franzen behind the net because he tried to pick-pocket him rather than body-check him off the puck. Franzen got a free look into the slot with the puck on his forehand...luckily his teammates picked up his slack ass and covered up the zone.

I knew I would regret not starting that thread. We'd have plethora of bad examples piled up in there by now.