What happens if Carolina fails to make the playoffs again?

Kram170

Registered User
Nov 14, 2013
37
0
Raleigh, NC
Title says it all. Is it going to be a few small moves, a coaching change, or something like a full rebuild? Just wanted everyone's opinion on rational possibilities or solutions.

Keep in mind, attendance is horrible and the price of everything has increased.
 

Blueline Bomber

AI Generated Minnesota Wild
Sponsor
Oct 31, 2007
39,369
41,784
There should be quiet calls made to see what we can get for the Staals.

Agreed. There needs to be a major shakeup, especially if Eric does his "Oh ****, got to hit 70 points!" run...just after the playoffs are out of reach
 

DougieSmash

WE'RE IN! WE'RE IN! YES! YES! WOO!
Jan 2, 2009
14,795
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Won't happen. Rutherford is way too loyal. I like Jordan, he's much better leader than Eric.
 

Identity404

I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious
Nov 5, 2005
2,778
6,827
Washington DC
It seems pretty obvious that we won't be able to win anything with this core. A full rebuild is probably needed, but isn't something this market can handle after missing the playoffs so many years in a row. We are stuck in the mud with our wheels spinning.

The biggest change I see happening is JR "retiring" after the season.
 

FlyingSquirrels

Registered User
Jul 5, 2011
1,853
2,111
1) JR will not and cannot be fired. He needs to resign himself.

2) The nepotism culture of the organization is biting it in it's ass right now as we seem paralyzed by "loyalty" and "family" to make any moves of significance. And significant moves are exactly what we need to change the losing and passionless culture we have here right now.
 

Anton Babchuk

Registered User
Nov 3, 2005
12,913
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Raleigh-Durham
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Personally I am dreading the upcoming Justin Faulk 8-year contract. We are going to pay him like a top guy before he gets there (if he ever does). His inconsistency and total lack of PP ability are going to become very glaring because we're going to pay him like those things aren't a problem and will somehow just fix themselves overnight (see: Jeff Skinner's ongoing need to be sheltered due to his horrid defense). It's really how a mediocre team stays mediocre. You pay more money for the same player and the rest of the roster feels the squeeze. Maybe for once we should try a ****ing bridge contract.
 

Sens1Canes2

Registered User
May 13, 2007
10,672
8,305
1) JR will not and cannot be fired. He needs to resign himself.

2) The nepotism culture of the organization is biting it in it's ass right now as we seem paralyzed by "loyalty" and "family" to make any moves of significance. And significant moves are exactly what we need to change the losing and passionless culture we have here right now.

I don't buy that second part. There have been wholesale changes the last two offseasons. This *should* be working when everyone is healthy. Getting J Staal may have been a "family thing" but he's a hell of a better player than B Sutter, and he's the only one currently on an NHL roster from that trade. Semin should score 30 goals. Sekera for McBain was highway robbery. Hainsey has been a nice addition.

I'm like everyone else, I don't get it either. Like BB alluded to elsewhere, if the team up and quits on Muller, it'll be the third time. So whole I don't agree that it's a nepotism thing, I do agree it'd be time for a big move.
 

DougieSmash

WE'RE IN! WE'RE IN! YES! YES! WOO!
Jan 2, 2009
14,795
15,968
Personally I am dreading the upcoming Justin Faulk 8-year contract. We are going to pay him like a top guy before he gets there (if he ever does). His inconsistency and total lack of PP ability are going to become very glaring because we're going to pay him like those things aren't a problem and will somehow just fix themselves overnight (see: Jeff Skinner's ongoing need to be sheltered due to his horrid defense). It's really how a mediocre team stays mediocre. You pay more money for the same player and the rest of the roster feels the squeeze. Maybe for once we should try a ****ing bridge contract.
Exactly. That's my fear, too. Something like 15 M for 5 years would be good starting point but i expected something like 16 M for 4 years.
Another terrible contract.

Faulk is dreadful on the PP.
 

FlyingSquirrels

Registered User
Jul 5, 2011
1,853
2,111
Personally I am dreading the upcoming Justin Faulk 8-year contract. We are going to pay him like a top guy before he gets there (if he ever does). His inconsistency and total lack of PP ability are going to become very glaring because we're going to pay him like those things aren't a problem and will somehow just fix themselves overnight (see: Jeff Skinner's ongoing need to be sheltered due to his horrid defense). It's really how a mediocre team stays mediocre. You pay more money for the same player and the rest of the roster feels the squeeze. Maybe for once we should try a ****ing bridge contract.

This will happen simply because JR "likes" him. Once JR gets those rose colored glasses on you can fugeddaboutit.
 

FlyingSquirrels

Registered User
Jul 5, 2011
1,853
2,111
I don't buy that second part. There have been wholesale changes the last two offseasons. This *should* be working when everyone is healthy. Getting J Staal may have been a "family thing" but he's a hell of a better player than B Sutter, and he's the only one currently on an NHL roster from that trade. Semin should score 30 goals. Sekera for McBain was highway robbery. Hainsey has been a nice addition.

I'm like everyone else, I don't get it either. Like BB alluded to elsewhere, if the team up and quits on Muller, it'll be the third time. So whole I don't agree that it's a nepotism thing, I do agree it'd be time for a big move.

I don't think anything near a "wholesale" change has taken place. But maybe that's just me. I like JStaal. And I have been complimentary of Gerbe, Hainsey and even Dvorak. But the playoff record of our GM is inexcusable. And our captain may say the right things to the media but his slack on ice performance speaks for itself and sets a poor example for the young guys.

We need an outside voice to come in a change things here top to bottom. That is what I am asking for, and if that means trading EStaal among other things?? Then do it. But obviously leaving things as they are isn't working...and hasn't for several years now.
 

Kram170

Registered User
Nov 14, 2013
37
0
Raleigh, NC
Do you think this organization can survive a full rebuild after missing the playoffs so much in the past. A rebuild with trading the staals will be another playoff draught period. Plus our current farm of prospects is not very strong.
 

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
30,214
25,769
Can the canucks have a pair of top six forwards who you'd think can play with Kesler? We'll move Edler - first round picks - middle six forwards, B prospects.

I don't think you guys know how important it is to this team when kesler scores. It's the highest win percentage for when one player scores. 89%. Even higher than Datsyuk's 87%...

When he gets two goals, we're 25-0-1 all time.

No, we don't want Semin due to his contract LENGTH and he'll get killed by Torts lol.

What could we get for Edler + Burrows/Hansen/Higgins/Booth/Richardson/Santorelli + first?

- Would you give up Skinner + for Edler + etc?

Also, what's happened to the Staals?
 

FlyingSquirrels

Registered User
Jul 5, 2011
1,853
2,111
Can the canucks have a pair of top six forwards who you'd think can play with Kesler? We'll move Edler - first round picks - middle six forwards, B prospects.

I don't think you guys know how important it is to this team when kesler scores. It's the highest win percentage for when one player scores. 89%. Even higher than Datsyuk's 87%...

When he gets two goals, we're 25-0-1 all time.

No, we don't want Semin due to his contract LENGTH and he'll get killed by Torts lol.

What could we get for Edler + Burrows/Hansen/Higgins/Booth/Richardson/Santorelli + first?

- Would you give up Skinner + for Edler + etc?

Also, what's happened to the Staals?

The Staal's are just fine, especially Eric. Very comfortable and complacent and he likes living here. That's good for hockey players, right??
 

Wolfpuck

Chefnikov
Jun 25, 2006
38,735
85,933
The 919
This team's core simply hasn't gotten the job done, and is showing no signs of righting the ship this season either. Rutherford has tied up too much money into players that are not producing and can't be moved because of their poisonous contracts. Sure, he's made some fine secondary moves, but it's like welding a new hull on the Titanic; this team is sunk and eroding from the get-go every season.
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
51,318
49,031
Winston-Salem NC
Full rebuild? hell to the no. We've already been through 4 years of partial rebuild and the market flat out can't take another 4 that will be worse then the last 4.

JR needs to step down and let someone else finish the job on the rebuild. At the very least this will stop the bleeding of prospects and picks needlessly in trades: Boucher and Alt for Pither, the two picks including a mid-rounder thrown in for Kevin ****ing Westgarth of all people, etc. There's part one of the reason that our futures are considered to be some of the worst in hockey right now, and that's WITH breakout seasons by Altshuller, Tolchinsky, and McGinn, AND after drafting Lindholm at # ****ing 5.

The second reason of that which needs to be addressed and MUST be addressed this offseason: ****ing fire the lot of them down in the AHL. Wholescale change there, no-stop. How many full time players have we had that played extensively (IE: better then half a season) under Daniels in Albany and Charlotte right now? Patrick Dwyer, Jamie McBain, Riley Nash, Drayson Bowman, Justin Peters, and Brett Bellemore? Unacceptable, especially when we've had a top 15 pick in Zach Boychuk, and another first round caliber guy in Zac Dalpe there for a while before we finally gave up on that whole idea. We need to start emulating what they're doing in Detroit, which is basically what Tampa did to speed up their turn around. Also didn't help that they're really good at that whole tanking thing but that's another matter. Anyway, replace the ENTIRE coaching staff in the AHL, and bring one in that focuses less on results at that level and one that focuses on developing the skillsets the players already have and turning them into viable NHLers going forward like Detroit does. DETROIT.

Leadership change on the team. If that means we have to do the rotating captains thing, so be it. If that teams Jordan no longer has the A, since we prettymuch universally (including JR apparently) want to ship out the other permanent A that one shouldn't be an issue. Guys like Malhotra that come in, who have been there and shown they have what it takes at high levels elsewhere, should be given the opportunity to show they can lead the way here.

Don't be afraid of the evil B word, a compliance buyout might be the best thing to do with Ruutu if we can't find a taker via trade this year. That's 4.5 mil per in cap space that can be spent MUCH more effectively elsewhere.

Also on that note, if Muller doesn't finish this season well (IE: pushing for the playoffs at least even if we miss) see ya, and go outside the box on the next hire. Jukka Jalonen is an absolutely brilliant coach, would LOVE to see the Canes be the kind of forward thinking team to bring him over here.
 

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
30,214
25,769
Eric for Edler+Horvat+Booth (cap dump)+1st

Just doesn't make sense for the organization to make that deal. It's the sort of price I can see the canes commanding, but I wouldn't give that up. - Here's why

Horvat is looking to be a steal - and now it's showing why scouts were raving about him. Might take a bit of time for him to get up the lineup in the NHL, but he's progressing so well in juniors. The guys who scouts were comparing him to - bergeron/oreilly etc, he's outscoring by miles. Gaunce is more of an oreilly projection right now than anything. He's at 37 points in 24 games I think, while shutting down the rest of the top players in the OHL. i.e. he shut down Mcdavid a few weeks back - he only lost one faceoff against him etc.

We already have Henrik Sedin. Rather pay for a 1st line winger - 2nd line anything.
 

rocky7

DAT 13
Feb 9, 2013
3,479
1
God's country
Full rebuild? hell to the no. We've already been through 4 years of partial rebuild and the market flat out can't take another 4 that will be worse then the last 4.

JR needs to step down and let someone else finish the job on the rebuild. At the very least this will stop the bleeding of prospects and picks needlessly in trades: Boucher and Alt for Pither, the two picks including a mid-rounder thrown in for Kevin ****ing Westgarth of all people, etc. There's part one of the reason that our futures are considered to be some of the worst in hockey right now, and that's WITH breakout seasons by Altshuller, Tolchinsky, and McGinn, AND after drafting Lindholm at # ****ing 5.

The second reason of that which needs to be addressed and MUST be addressed this offseason: ****ing fire the lot of them down in the AHL. Wholescale change there, no-stop. How many full time players have we had that played extensively (IE: better then half a season) under Daniels in Albany and Charlotte right now? Patrick Dwyer, Jamie McBain, Riley Nash, Drayson Bowman, Justin Peters, and Brett Bellemore? Unacceptable, especially when we've had a top 15 pick in Zach Boychuk, and another first round caliber guy in Zac Dalpe there for a while before we finally gave up on that whole idea. We need to start emulating what they're doing in Detroit, which is basically what Tampa did to speed up their turn around. Also didn't help that they're really good at that whole tanking thing but that's another matter. Anyway, replace the ENTIRE coaching staff in the AHL, and bring one in that focuses less on results at that level and one that focuses on developing the skillsets the players already have and turning them into viable NHLers going forward like Detroit does. DETROIT.

Leadership change on the team. If that means we have to do the rotating captains thing, so be it. If that teams Jordan no longer has the A, since we prettymuch universally (including JR apparently) want to ship out the other permanent A that one shouldn't be an issue. Guys like Malhotra that come in, who have been there and shown they have what it takes at high levels elsewhere, should be given the opportunity to show they can lead the way here.

Don't be afraid of the evil B word, a compliance buyout might be the best thing to do with Ruutu if we can't find a taker via trade this year. That's 4.5 mil per in cap space that can be spent MUCH more effectively elsewhere.

Also on that note, if Muller doesn't finish this season well (IE: pushing for the playoffs at least even if we miss) see ya, and go outside the box on the next hire. Jukka Jalonen is an absolutely brilliant coach, would LOVE to see the Canes be the kind of forward thinking team to bring him over here.

this here is a good post Dave.
 

Unsustainable

Seth Jarvis is Elite
Apr 14, 2012
38,165
105,709
North Carolina
I think Dave nailed it.

Gleason and Ruutu could bring us a lot contract space for a big name person.

And the Captain should be picked by the players and coaches, when they brought in Jordan, he was given the A, would the same thing happen if we get Marc?
 

garnetpalmetto

Jerkministrator
Jul 12, 2004
12,476
11,842
Durham, NC
I think Dave nailed it.

Gleason and Ruutu could bring us a lot contract space for a big name person.

And the Captain should be picked by the players and coaches, when they brought in Jordan, he was given the A, would the same thing happen if we get Marc?

I don't know, but the same thing happened for Cory Stillman before he ever dressed for a Canes game.
 

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