What happens if Carolina fails to make the playoffs again?

[the halleJOKEL]

so you are saying he is bad at defense?

what you just described has nothing to do with leadership

 

[geehaad]

what you just described has nothing to do with leadership

This has been Really?!?! with Seth and Amy.

I'm done with this.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

No, it's not common to the same extent to all teams. And nowhere did I say that falls solely on his leadership. But but I contend that's one element of it, particularly when you look at how he plays and performs during those stints and when you add the other two items I mentioned that you neglected to include.

Reading the other teams' boards, comments on "lazyness" and "effort" are very, very common. Leadership is as well.

Or maybe both? I agree the roster is poorly constructed, but when the guy who is the face of your franchise, and paid almost 15% of your total payroll isn't performing and is showing lack of consistent effort, taking bad penalties, etc... that's a problem. Not sure why you'd argue otherwise.

I think its both; I also think that trying to pin all of our woes on the leadership of Staal is stupid.

We're stuck with Staal, whether we like it or not. It's very rare that teams win a trade where they are trading away the best player for several decent players. Removing the captaincy won't do anything because there really isn't anyone that can step in and replace Staal.

I also think leadership is way overrated on this board. The only person Eric can influence is himself. He is in control of how hard he plays on a nightly basis. Getting a better leader isn't going to fix the underlying issues with our team.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

eric staal is bad at defense

being made captain will not instantly make him good at defense

you cant just "leadership" your way to having defensive awareness

 

[Blueline Bomber]

so you are saying he is bad at defense?

what you just described has nothing to do with leadership

If your captain is going to lead by example, and has himself said that he "needs to be the best player on the ice", would you not rather have him make those defensive plays than not?

Or better yet, if you want to send the message that backchecking and defensive responsibility is kind of important if you plan on winning hockey games, wouldn't you want the captain to lead that?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

eric staal is bad at defense

being made captain will not instantly make him good at defense

you cant just "leadership" your way to having defensive awareness

If a forward has speed and a minimal amount of hockey sense, being "good at defense" is mostly about effort. Eric has shown that he can be good at defense, so I don't buy that he doesn't have "defensive awareness". But even if we forget about whether or not he is good a defense, I'll repeat the question I asked earlier:

Can you honestly watch him not give consistent effort night in and night out and not question his leadership? Especially for a guy that says he leads by example?

 

[tarheelhockey]

If a forward has speed and a minimal amount of hockey sense, being "good at defense" is mostly about effort. Eric has shown that he can be good at defense, so I don't buy that he doesn't have "defensive awareness". But even if we forget about whether or not he is good a defense, I'll repeat the question I asked earlier:

Can you honestly watch him not give consistent effort night in and night out and not question his leadership? Especially for a guy that says he leads by example?

When was the last time that Eric played a game in which he wasn't getting first-line minutes? At what point does he get challenged to give more of himself?

Eric might be complacent, but he doesn't strike me as someone who is without pride or who would pull a Hasek on his coach.

 

[Goodafternoon]

Well, considering this is really the first year the majority have turned on Eric

Majority of the Hurricanes fan base or the majority of this forum? I'm asking because there is no way in hell the majority of the fans want Staal gone. Staal gets cheered twice as loud as the next loudest 'Cane whenever he's introduced or his goal/assist is announced.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

When was the last time that Eric played a game in which he wasn't getting first-line minutes? At what point does he get challenged to give more of himself?

Eric might be complacent, but he doesn't strike me as someone who is without pride or who would pull a Hasek on his coach.

Unless that coach is Maurice, since he did exactly that. Looked the ass in every game until Maurice got fired, then Muller takes over and suddenly, he's back to being "Eric the PPG player".

He does seem like the type of player that needs to be challenged in order to play his best. It's why he only seems to give a rat's ass when the playoff chances are fading, or when he's got to impress the new coach, or when JR/Karmanos shows up in the lockerroom (remember that?) or when he's in the playoffs. When he gets complacent, he looks godawful.

But at the same time, this organization has put Eric on so high of a pedestal, can you really challenge him in the way he needs to be challenged (ie: scratching him for a game or two or calling him out publicly) without putting your job on the line?

 

[RodTheBawd]

But at the same time, this organization has put Eric on so high of a pedestal, can you really challenge him in the way he needs to be challenged (ie: scratching him for a game or two or calling him out publicly) without putting your job on the line?

Isn't continuing to lose games and missing the playoffs every year putting your job on the line (referring to Muller)?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

When was the last time that Eric played a game in which he wasn't getting first-line minutes? At what point does he get challenged to give more of himself?

Eric might be complacent, but he doesn't strike me as someone who is without pride or who would pull a Hasek on his coach.

I never said (nor tried to imply) that he was without pride or would pull a Hasek. I am not trying to say what the reason is, just what the result is. Why does he choose not to put in the effort on the defensive end? beats me. But I've seen many cases this season where he bags it on a back check, but on the same shift then skates with full effort as the puck goes back into the offensive zone when he might have a chance to score.

Look, I'm not saying he needs to be balls to the wall at every second, that's ludicrous as no player can do that or they won't last for a 15s shift. For my taste, there's just way too much lazy play at key junctures, particularly on the defensive side of it, than I would expect out of a captain who says he leads by example.

 

[What the Faulk]

When was the last time that Eric played a game in which he wasn't getting first-line minutes? At what point does he get challenged to give more of himself?

Eric might be complacent, but he doesn't strike me as someone who is without pride or who would pull a Hasek on his coach.

Looks like Eric last played fewer than first line minutes was against Detroit on 11/21. Jordan played 1:15 more total and 2:15 more at even strength.

 

[tarheelhockey]

But at the same time, this organization has put Eric on so high of a pedestal, can you really challenge him in the way he needs to be challenged (ie: scratching him for a game or two or calling him out publicly) without putting your job on the line?

I really think that's projecting too much speculation into how the front office operates. If the reality is that Eric is sandbagging it because he doesn't care or isn't challenged, and that Muller will lose his job if he forces Eric to shape up, then what the hell is this organization about? Does it exist as a private enterprise to make Eric Staal happy, rather than to win games or make money? That idea can gain traction among frustrated, sarcastic fans, but it doesn't make sense in any other context.

 

[go comets]

if muller feels that staal isnt playing to his full potential, then a period or two on the bench should get that message across. a game or two in the press box would also work. carolina fans are just sick of mediocrity every season, then once eliminated from the playoffs, the team and eric especially go on a ten game win streak in completely meaningless games.

 

[geehaad]

if muller feels that staal isnt playing to his full potential, then a period or two on the bench should get that message across. a game or two in the press box would also work. carolina fans are just sick of mediocrity every season, then once eliminated from the playoffs, the team and eric especially go on a ten game win streak in completely meaningless games.

Or how about if Muller didn't let him saunter up to the center-ice face-off dot immediately after blowing coverage in the D zone that resulted in a goal? That would be a really nice place to start, and it would certainly help to prevent me from spit-screaming at my TV.

This team needs to understand that when you make a catastrophic ****-up because of a lack of effort, it is not acceptable...regardless of how many goals you score. I do not see Muller sending that message. The only message I ever see is the "I'm benching you because you haven't even sniffed at a goal in 5 games" one, regardless of how obviously hard that player is working to rectify that situation.

 

[hctimo787]

This team needs to understand that when you make a catastrophic ****-up because of a lack of effort, it is not acceptable...regardless of how many goals you score. I do not see Muller sending that message. The only message I ever see is the "I'm benching you because you haven't even sniffed at a goal in 5 games" one, regardless of how obviously hard that player is working to rectify that situation.

Totally agree with this. Muller has preached accountability from day one but the not-scoring-goals-so-you're-demoted scenario is the only one I've seen out of Muller that actually lends to that. Several players have coasted most of the year, defensively, and nothing has happened to them.

 

[Lazyking]

They get the "20 min talk before practice" thing that Tripp mentioned last night with Eric and Muller.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

They get the "20 min talk before practice" thing that Tripp mentioned last night with Eric and Muller.

Uh, looks to me like that worked.

--hank