Speculation: What changes should be made for this team to be successful?

[BrooklynCapsFan]

So you're basically willing to give the guy away? That's not how you turn around a franchise. Teams would be lining up to give him a fresh start.

Green's a lot like Penner. Good in 2010. Injuries and underperformance since then.

You think teams would trade valuable pieces for Penner with a year and $6 million remaining?

 

[artilector]

As with most replies on this board, logic or analysis does not come into play, rather responses are based on emotions. Just look at the hate/responses for Brouwer and Laich.

Whereas Joel Ward only gets two votes:
-because some believe he picks up his game in the playoffs. Analysis this team is not going to get into the playoffs this season. So scratch that for a reason.
-He's good and strong along the boards and corners. This is true, but so are Brouwer and Fehr who also play that same position, are younger and have more term remaining on their contracts.
-Look at he year he's having. He's third in scoring on this team and this is the best season he's ever had. All true and he'll be 34 in December. Said it before and will say it again, he's having a career year this season and I don't expect him to ever produce the numbers that he's producing again. Best time to move him is soon while folks rate him so high based upon the season that he's having.

Team's immediate needs are two top level solid defenseman and two centerman that are solid and good at face offs.

I like Fehr as a low-cost option, and as far as Ward... are you for REAL??!

Ward-Chimera line has been our best ES line in like 2/3 of the games I watched, while Brouwer and Laich have been AOL (i.e. more useless than AWOL) for huge stretches with better teammates and higher salaries.

And I didn't even like the Ward deal until this season. But then him and Chimmer took off, and I ate crow. Would be absurd to throw away the best (and only!) chemistry tandem on the team, especially when there's basically zero cap pressure and so many better options to cut fat, if necessary.

 

[OVs Gold Chain*]

So you're basically willing to give the guy away? That's not how you turn around a franchise. Teams would be lining up to give him a fresh start.

Let them. Hopefully they do so we get a nice return. And I'd wish Green the best, but his cap hit is a major part of what's killing this team for what he brings to the table.

He never challenges at the blueline, consistently fails to dig pucks out of corners, lacks any semblance of physical play, and coughs up the puck at the first sign of an opposing forecheck.

Mike Green does not do 90% of what a defenseman is asked to do, yet he makes almost as much as our entire blueline combined. That is a problem whether you'd like to accept the reality of it or not.

 

[um]

Let them. Hopefully they do so we get a nice return. And I'd wish Green the best, but his cap hit is a major part of what's killing this team for what he brings to the table.

He never challenges at the blueline, consistently fails to dig pucks out of corners, lacks any semblance of physical play, and coughs up the puck at the first sign of an opposing forecheck.

Mike Green does not do 90% of what a defenseman is asked to do, yet he makes almost as much as our entire blueline combined. That is a problem whether you'd like to accept the reality of it or not.

if we dont get a nhl player back for green than it would be a waste of time. getting a UFA would require an overpayment as well.

also carlson and alzner are underpaid, its silly to use that against green

 

[OVs Gold Chain*]

if we dont get a nhl player back for green than it would be a waste of time. getting a UFA would require an overpayment as well.

It's all worthless speculation as McPhee isn't giving up on his young gun dream anytime soon, but that 6 mil in cap space would be ideal to sign or trade for a legitimate 6million dollar d-man.

Just look at the d-men making 4-6 million out there on capgeek and tell me you wouldn't swap Green straight up for nearly all of them. Green was worth it when he was playing like an offensive phenom but now that his game has slipped he brings very little to the table aside from passing in the offensive zone. Carlson does everything Green does now with the added ability of being able to play physically in the corners and along the boards.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Green's a lot like Penner. Good in 2010. Injuries and underperformance since then.

You think teams would trade valuable pieces for Penner with a year and $6 million remaining?

Absolutely...Penner was a multi-year candidate for best forward in the NHL right? Top pair D (or even top3) hold equal value to borderline 2nd/3rd line wingers around the NHL too right??? Come on....not even close to the same skillset and demand for the position.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Let them. Hopefully they do so we get a nice return. And I'd wish Green the best, but his cap hit is a major part of what's killing this team for what he brings to the table.

He never challenges at the blueline, consistently fails to dig pucks out of corners, lacks any semblance of physical play, and coughs up the puck at the first sign of an opposing forecheck.

Mike Green does not do 90% of what a defenseman is asked to do, yet he makes almost as much as our entire blueline combined. That is a problem whether you'd like to accept the reality of it or not.

You don't have to remind me of his bad traits any more than you need to remind of his good ones. Mike Green appears to me (aside from maybe not the best hockey IQ) to be a player who is mentally broken right now, like Ovechkin was for 2 seasons. Under Boudreau he flourished, under Oates he's been yo-yo'd around just like some of his teammates. I think mentally he needs a fresh start and a coach who believes he needs to get back to doing the things that made him great. I don't agree that his cap hit is a major thing that's killing this team. That major thing is George McPhee. Green is nothing more than a piece of the puzzle that's falling apart. He's no more than $2 mil overpaid per season for a top 2/3 guy...if he plays to his potential, not so overpaid, but who knows if we ever see that again. I bet 1/4 of the NHL would still take Mike Green on their top pair and as their #1 PP D...

 

[g00n]

57 have voted and GMGM and Oates are both at 53 votes. Would the 4 people who did NOT vote to oust the GM and coach care to explain why? Not saying you're wrong or right, just would like to hear the reasoning.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Absolutely...Penner was a multi-year candidate for best forward in the NHL right? Top pair D (or even top3) hold equal value to borderline 2nd/3rd pair D around the NHL too right??? Come on....not even close to the same skillset and demand for the position.

Haven't performed in 4 years = haven't performed in 4 years.

 

[Langway]

Green's a lot like Penner. Good in 2010. Injuries and underperformance since then.

You think teams would trade valuable pieces for Penner with a year and $6 million remaining?

Scarcity dictates that defensemen and centers get a longer leash and more chances than wingers. Just look at the contracts given to the likes of Wideman and Wisniewski on the open market. If a team sorely needs the things Green brings when on and believes they can coach him up then I think he could net enough value to make it worthwhile. Not his peak value but enough so that it saves some face if they have little desire to extend him. That said a new GM might want to see for himself what he has in Green--in all likelihood under his coach/approach--before doing so.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Scarcity dictates that defensemen and centers get a longer leash and more chances than wingers. Just look at the contracts given to the likes of Wideman and Wisniewski on the open market. If a team sorely needs the things Green brings when on and believes they can coach him up then I think he could net enough value to make it worthwhile. Not his peak value but enough so that it saves some face if they have little desire to extend him. That said a new GM might want to see for himself what he has in Green--in all likelihood under his coach/approach--before doing so.

If that's true then trade him yesterday. I'd be happy with a 2nd.

 

[MrGone]

57 have voted and GMGM and Oates are both at 53 votes. Would the 4 people who did NOT vote to oust the GM and coach care to explain why? Not saying you're wrong or right, just would like to hear the reasoning.

I did not even vote for Mike Green. I wanted to focus on the root of the problems.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Haven't performed in 4 years = haven't performed in 4 years.

I keep forgetting half you guys give no credibility to the shortened season last year where he clearly played better.

Fits with the Green/Brouwer hate....

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

I keep forgetting half you guys give no credibility to the shortened season last year where he clearly played better.

Fits with the Green/Brouwer hate....

Yes. Green, Erskine and Brouwer are really proving the point that last season was an accurate gauge of their ability.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yes. Green, Erskine and Brouwer are really proving the point that last season was an accurate gauge of their ability.

Just admit the irrational player hate...you'll feel relieved....It's not like things have gotten worse for the team overall this season right??!?!?

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Just admit the irrational player hate...you'll feel relieved....It's not like things have gotten worse for the team overall this season right??!?!?

I'd be more interested in hearing about how the shortened season is a relevant predictor of a full season for Erskine, Brouwer and Green. There were no system or coaching changes year to year. What happened?

 

[txpd]

Green's a lot like Penner. Good in 2010. Injuries and underperformance since then.

You think teams would trade valuable pieces for Penner with a year and $6 million remaining?

leading the nhl in goals from defense is underperforming?

 

[g00n]

Because the coaching is so suspect I think guys who have performed at a high level before deserve another look under a new coach. If that doesn't happen and it's Oates again next year I don't know what to tell you.

 

[txpd]

I'd be more interested in hearing about how the shortened season is a relevant predictor of a full season for Erskine, Brouwer and Green. There were no system or coaching changes year to year. What happened?

brouwer is going to score 20 goals for the 2nd time in his career. its the not the 30 goal pace he had last season, its a pretty good season based on his career numbers. he might also turn another little streak into 25+ goals and then last season is totally relevant.

as for green. he played the games in front of him and performed at a league leading level. this season, I am sure there are many that would use his production the same number of games against him. I am not sure why Oates decided to remove Green from his power play duties. I put that change in the same category as the other odd things that Oates insists on. There is no question that his lack of pp minutes effects his production.

 

[um]

It's all worthless speculation as McPhee isn't giving up on his young gun dream anytime soon, but that 6 mil in cap space would be ideal to sign or trade for a legitimate 6million dollar d-man.

Just look at the d-men making 4-6 million out there on capgeek and tell me you wouldn't swap Green straight up for nearly all of them. Green was worth it when he was playing like an offensive phenom but now that his game has slipped he brings very little to the table aside from passing in the offensive zone. Carlson does everything Green does now with the added ability of being able to play physically in the corners and along the boards.

of course i would but that doesn't mean anything, i really don't think its that easy to find a top 4 defense men these days.

besides if green played around 20 minutes a game with top PP responsibilities he would be fine as our #3/4 defensemen, its not his fault oates favors him over carlson for some reason. maybe a new coach can change that.

 

[txpd]

57 have voted and GMGM and Oates are both at 53 votes. Would the 4 people who did NOT vote to oust the GM and coach care to explain why? Not saying you're wrong or right, just would like to hear the reasoning.

I don't vote in poles as as rule. I didn't vote against replacing them or for keeping them either

 

[hb12xchamps]

If that's true then trade him yesterday. I'd be happy with a 2nd.

That's an ignorant undervalue of Mike Green. Top puck moving defensemen don't grow on trees and especially ones who have quarterbacked a successful PP most of their career. Oates and Calle don't know how to coach Green and even Hunter didn't know how to coach Green. BB knew what Green was going to give to the team and structured a game plan for Green that worked. If Green became available there would be teams calling about him and not for the price of a 2nd round pick. Andrew MacDonald got the Islanders a 2nd and 3rd round pick and a C prospect.

 

[FloridaCap]

I don't see the bad thing about having them both? I don't like Holtby, but I certainly didn't vote to get rid of him. Having Holtby and a backup vet or Holtby and Grubauer isn't very good...

As with most replies on this board, logic or analysis does not come into play, rather responses are based on emotions. Just look at the hate/responses for Brouwer and Laich.

Whereas Joel Ward only gets two votes:
-because some believe he picks up his game in the playoffs. Analysis this team is not going to get into the playoffs this season. So scratch that for a reason.
-He's good and strong along the boards and corners. This is true, but so are Brouwer and Fehr who also play that same position, are younger and have more term remaining on their contracts.
-Look at he year he's having. He's third in scoring on this team and this is the best season he's ever had. All true and he'll be 34 in December. Said it before and will say it again, he's having a career year this season and I don't expect him to ever produce the numbers that he's producing again. Best time to move him is soon while folks rate him so high based upon the season that he's having.

Team's immediate needs are two top level solid defenseman and two centerman that are solid and good at face offs.

I understand wanting Laich gone. I like healthy Laich. It's in serious jeopardy that we will EVER have healthy Laich again.

I also like Joel Ward, but would have no issue of trading him. His value is at an all time high.

I just don't understand why we'd ditch Halak if he's willing to come back on a similar cap hit to what he has now.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Not much else left to say on Mike Green. He's got faults, but he's not a throwaway unless you just hate the guy and want him gone, franchise damage be damned.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don't see the bad thing about having them both? I don't like Holtby, but I certainly didn't vote to get rid of him. Having Holtby and a backup vet or Holtby and Grubauer isn't very good...


I just don't understand why we'd ditch Halak if he's willing to come back on a similar cap hit to what he has now.

Well I DON't dislike Holtby but I didn't vote him off the island either. I think Holtby would struggle ego-wise being a backup for a few years now that he's had a taste of the starters life. We'll have to give Halak SOME term if he were to sign here I would think. Minimum 2 years I bet. If Holtby is willing to be 2nd fiddle, would be nice to keep him, albeit you're in a Neuvy situation possible in a pissing match over playing time while paying an expensive backup.

Assuming all parties are happy with performance, I'd take Halak for another year or two if he fits in well in the room. Let Holtby fight for his starter spot. He could be the starter tomorrow due to injury, you never know.