WCH - Impressions of the Tournament

[haveandare]

This horse has been beaten to death for at least 100 times on this board, but I will answer you regardless: because nobody (including the NHL) has the right to redefine international hockey, and Team NA U23 or whatever you want to call it does not represent a country. Only national teams should be allowed in international tournaments. The firmat was not broken and therefore no changes were needed.

Crosby and Ovechkin may never play on the same team either, so does that mean that there should no longer be a Team Canada and a Team Russia but a joint Canada/Russia team instead? Or how about creating Team European Right-Handed U25. I'm sure that would features some great players too. Isn't it a shame that most of them will never play together either?

This is not about how exciting the players may be, this is about principles. The NHL no longer wants to attend the Olympics, but instead of organizing a tournament that could have had prestige and could have been a proper Olympic replacement, they decided to arrange a tournament only meant to appeal to North American fans and disregard the fact that Europeans in general are quite nationalistic when it comes to sports (not just the fans, but the players as well) and therefore will not be too happy to have non-national teams in a seemingly international tournament.

IMO there is zero chance of this being a proper Olympic replacement regardless of if it were just national teams or not. The olympics have a level of tradition and significance that some on the spot NHL backed tournament won't ever have. A gold medal means something to all athletes in the world across all sports across decades. A world championship of hockey championship means pretty much nothing. That's not going to change weather the teams are strictly national or not. If the nhl backs out of the Olympics I'm pissed whether this world championship exists or not.

Given that situation as I see it, I'm looking at this tournament as entertaining hockey and little else. Team NA seems like potentially the most exciting team in this. I'll watch every game of their and root for them throughout.

 

[tony d]

Meh, still think this is going to be a good tournament and it's getting way to much flak. That said they have to tweak this if they do in the future. They call it a World Cup? Have more countries participating. No team Europe (I do like the U23 team though)

 

[AtNightWeFly]

This is my first time watching it but so far so good.
I'm not feeling ESPN at all so I don't know why people want it back so badly. NBC would've done it much better imo.

 

[Habs Halifax]

On a positive note, ticket prices seem quite reasonable for many of the WCH games. I would rather see any of the tournament games than a Leafs game. Enjoy the opportunity I say!

Agreed! If your not interested, simply just don't be and stop complaining about it. However, There are millions that are interested in seeing the most competitive Hockey tournament ever! Creating team North America is genius! Everybody wants to dethrone team Canada (especially the US!) and it will be exciting to watch them try. I'd love to see a Canada vs North America semi final game to be honest!

I'm trying to buy as many of the games as I can right now before the supply goes down and prices go up! If your interested, buy the cheap seats now people! Prices are pretty good for the most part but I fear they may go up once availability goes down. Once this tournament starts, the competition will be high! This ain't no NHL all star game comparison

 

[Habs Halifax]

IMO there is zero chance of this being a proper Olympic replacement regardless of if it were just national teams or not. The olympics have a level of tradition and significance that some on the spot NHL backed tournament won't ever have. A gold medal means something to all athletes in the world across all sports across decades. A world championship of hockey championship means pretty much nothing. That's not going to change weather the teams are strictly national or not. If the nhl backs out of the Olympics I'm pissed whether this world championship exists or not.

Given that situation as I see it, I'm looking at this tournament as entertaining hockey and little else. Team NA seems like potentially the most exciting team in this. I'll watch every game of their and root for them throughout.

There is a much much greater chance than 0% of the World Cup being a replacement for the Olympics. NHL don't make any money from players going to the Olympics and the next Olympics is in South Korea. That's a very different situation than Canada or Russia hosting the Olympics

I'd say it's 50/50 chance there is two World Cups (2016, 2020) and the NHL skips the 2018 Olympics. That's 2 World Cups to make money on. Like it or not, the NHL is a business and money talks. Gold Medals will be awarded weather NHL players play or don't play at the next Olympics.

 

[haveandare]

There is a much much greater chance than 0% of the World Cup being a replacement for the Olympics. NHL don't make any money from players going to the Olympics and the next Olympics is in South Korea. That's a very different situation than Canada or Russia hosting the Olympics

I'd say it's 50/50 chance there is two World Cups (2016, 2020) and the NHL skips the 2018 Olympics. That's 2 World Cups to make money on. Like it or not, the NHL is a business and money talks. Gold Medals will be awarded weather NHL players play or don't play at the next Olympics.

I don't mean that they won't try to make it one, I mean that it won't actually live up to the Olympics or matter as much as the Olympics have when NHLers have played.

For example, I doubt a Canadian or American player on a hypothetical U23 team would be okay eliminating their country from the Olympics. I doubt that anyone on team NA will think twice about eliminating Canada or US from this tournament. That's because Olympic Gold means something and is valued historically and winning this thing just won't ever be the same level of importance.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't mean that they won't try to make it one, I mean that it won't actually live up to the Olympics or matter as much as the Olympics have when NHLers have played.

For example, I doubt a Canadian or American player on a hypothetical U23 team would be okay eliminating their country from the Olympics. I doubt that anyone on team NA will think twice about eliminating Canada or US from this tournament. That's because Olympic Gold means something and is valued historically and winning this thing just won't ever be the same level of importance.

Pointless hypothetical as this isn't allowed in the Olympics.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't mean that they won't try to make it one, I mean that it won't actually live up to the Olympics or matter as much as the Olympics have when NHLers have played.

For example, I doubt a Canadian or American player on a hypothetical U23 team would be okay eliminating their country from the Olympics. I doubt that anyone on team NA will think twice about eliminating Canada or US from this tournament. That's because Olympic Gold means something and is valued historically and winning this thing just won't ever be the same level of importance.

I think they both mean something in much different ways. I remember when NHL players didn't go to the Olympics a few year back now and I still enjoyed watching the hockey part of it and cheering for team Canada. The Canada Cup back then was also very exciting to watch as well and was a very important tournament.

I suspect for the players (especially the ones looking to add to the trophy case), they are going to try hard to win this World Cup Tournament. Imagine.... Memorial Cup Ring, World Juniors Gold Medal, Stanley Cup Ring, Olympic Gold Medal, &.... World Cup of Hockey Gold Medal. Team Canada wants to keep winning and all the other teams want to dethrone them!

Enjoy the Hockey! This type of tournament don't happen too often and it's the best 150-200 players in the world (with a few omissions)! All 8 teams are very good!

 

[haveandare]

Pointless hypothetical as this isn't allowed in the Olympics.

Yes, that's exactly why its a hypothetical.

And it's not pointless, the obvious point is that athletes from a country actually care if their country wins in the Olympics because winning the Olympics has actual national value to most people.

 

[Seanaconda]

I have serious doubts that people in large numbers will be tuning in for an early start on Rogers SN hockey coverage. Even if this were a traditional and real best on best international tournament, I'd be less than enthused that this tournament is a SN property. Team Canada games will get average ratings in Canada, but will lose the ratings war if they go head to head against Toronto Blue Jay baseball. The U24 North American team may get decent ratings if they play well...but the rest of the teams/games will be a ratings disaster.

so good to be back from summer vaca.

Anyone have numbers for what viewership for the first day was? It was vs opening day of football.

 

[BruinLVGA]

I'm complaining about a missed opportunity and spitting on the face of countries like Switzerland and Slovakia. It's even bigger travesty if NHL prevents players from entering the Olympics because of this glorified marketing event.

Not only Switzerland and Slovakia, but to all countries who try hard to emerge in hockey. For the NHL, they do not exist, nor matter. And this is why a regional league should never be tasked with organizing tournaments at international level.

The effort of Team Europe last night was laughable. No passion or intensity whatsoever. All it did was confirm to me that this tournament is a pre-season practice run. Nothing at stake.

Would love to try out your crystal ball that magically let's you see how intense the actual games are though..

And every "fan" who cheers wildly for the "Young Gunz," praising their speed and excitement, is helping to ensure that the NHL Olympics will be no more.

Sad but true.

And I'm sure that the people who want only good hockey and couldn't care less about a valid format would be fine with the NHL introducing gimmick teams to the Stanley Cup playoffs as well. My favourite team lost the Cup to a team composed of players who missed the playoffs? Fantastic, everyone was fast! My favourite team lost the Cup to a gimmick team with players taken from my own team? Great hockey though!

If these pro WC fans follow any logic, they should be happy about something like that.
#moarbestonbest

I like that most of the arguing in this thread boils down to "Bettman has desecrated the honour of international competition!"

You should commit seppuku in protest.

Also lol if you didn't already think the Olympics were gimmicky

Do explain.

 

[Seanaconda]

Pointless hypothetical as this isn't allowed in the Olympics.

Not that hypothetical. If hockey Olympics switched to a version of the Olympics like soccer where they only send a u 23 team or whatever any team that lost would be a u23 team that lost the Olympics for their country hahahahahahah

 

[haveandare]

I think they both mean something in much different ways. I remember when NHL players didn't go to the Olympics a few year back now and I still enjoyed watching the hockey part of it and cheering for team Canada. The Canada Cup back then was also very exciting to watch as well and was a very important tournament.

I suspect for the players (especially the ones looking to add to the trophy case), they are going to try hard to win this World Cup Tournament. Imagine.... Memorial Cup Ring, World Juniors Gold Medal, Stanley Cup Ring, Olympic Gold Medal, &.... World Cup of Hockey Gold Medal. Team Canada wants to keep winning and all the other teams want to dethrone them!

Enjoy the Hockey! This type of tournament don't happen too often and it's the best 150-200 players in the world (with a few omissions)! All 8 teams are very good!

True. I didn't mean that winning means absolutely nothing, as you rightly point out that it's still better to win than lose. However, I don't think it's a stretch to say winning this doesn't mean nearly as much as winning the Olympics based on the history of each tournament.

I've been enjoying it a bunch so far! Just noticing that on here in particular a lot of people are very, very negative about the setup because it's a "gimmick" and all. Just wanted to share my counter opinion. Really looking forward to watching NA play more in particular. Their speed and skill is off the charts.

 

[SirloinUB]

My attitude is that if nothing else is on TV worth watching, ill tune into the tournament at points but I really don't give a **** about it. If a Jays game or NFL game is on, I wont watch the world cup. If friends want to go hiking or play slo pitch or go for dinner or do anything at all, I wont watch the world cup.

On the other hand, I always go out of my way to watch and prioritize the Memorial Cup, Olympics, and WJHC.

 

[JackSlater]

Yes, that's exactly why its a hypothetical.

And it's not pointless, the obvious point is that athletes from a country actually care if their country wins in the Olympics because winning the Olympics has actual national value to most people.

I don't get your premise. In Canada for example, the 1987 Canada Cup victory is far more highly regarded than say the 2014 Olympic victory. Millions of Canadians have rated Canada/World Cup results very highly. Around the world the Olympics is more valued, no question, but in USA and especially in Canada these tournaments have had huge value

 

[xxxx]

This is going to be perhaps the best hockey tournament ever. Enough said. Who's more of being "a joke", the teams and the tournament that will be one of the best in history, or the people who are complaining day in and day out like a bunch of kids who didn't get what they wanted for lunch?

I have never seen such intense pre-tournament games. True, I am not the oldest out here, but the pace and quality of those games I've seen is really something special, and if this is just exhibition.....

 

[xxxx]

Henrik Sedin just on Sportsnet, on what he thinks about the comparison between the olympics and the world cup, after he had a taste of the pre-tournament game against Finland

"I think when this is over, it's gonna be up there with the olympics for sure. And I think playing in Toronto is a key to that, cause it's played in Canada, its played in one city and you're not travelling around different cities, like we did in '04, so I think it's gonna be up there with the olympics, absolutely."

on playing such an intense game right out of gate

"half way through the game I felt much better, but the first period was, huh, like Daniel said, Daniel said after the game "I was ready to retire after the first period", cause the pace was high, and everyone was just throwing pucks everywhere, it was a real feeling. But half way through the game the game was starting to slow down, you got more comfortable out there so, I felt a lot better going into the third period and into the overtime."

on whether the players like the idea of Team North America/Europe, or if they like the traditional format with 8 countries

"I would say right now I'm excited. When it came out in the news I was a little hesitant about the whole thing, but I'd rather have it this way where all the teams can win and like I said in olympics you can lose one or two games you know you're gonna beat some of the lesser teams and move on anyways into the quarter-final, this year at this tournament you have to be prepared for each and every game to win and that's, I like it better this way."

 

[Mr Positive]

“I don’t like it at all. Not one thing about it,†Swiss defenceman Mark Streit, who was part of the team that upset Canada and the Czech Republic at the 2006 Olympics, recently told the Cherry Hill Courier-Post. “It’s a nations tournament. You love playing for your country.â€

"I'm sure those two countries will be disappointed not having their own teams," said Czech native Patrick Elias of the New Jersey Devils. "Switzerland is a big part of the IIHF, they've done great the last few years, their hockey has got better and better and more competitive at every age group."

"It would definitely be an exciting thing to happen," Drouin said Friday. "It would be a little different, I guess, playing against your own country. But it might be fun with all those young guys on the same team."

Ryan wondered how those 23-and-under players would feel playing Team USA.

"If you lost, inside you might say, 'Well, at least U.S.A. got a couple of points out of it,'" said Ryan. "It's going to be a weird thing for those kids. But that Young Guns thing will take on a life of its own."

Stamkos was asked how it would be for those young stars to take on Team Canada in that tournament.

"That would be pretty intimidating," Stamkos said. "I don't know how I'd feel about that game. Whether I'd be cheering for them to win or our team to win. If that's the case, those guys will be pretty pumped up."

"I don't think Canadians like to play with Americans too much," said Team Canada Olympic stud Drew Doughty of the Los Angeles Kings. "I don't know how that'd work."

The young gun team seems perfectly fine, and it is an exciting team. As for what Streit said, I get that it makes for an epic moment when a team like the Swiss beat Canada, but the other side of that is now with these smaller hockey powers teaming up they might actually win these tournaments, and it might help hockey in those countries if they see their players actually go deep in the tournament. Also, obviously if the NHL keeps the World Cup going, the list of teams can change. I bet they will take out this team NA some day and replace it with a new national team if we can get another really competitive one. I think the team Euro idea is very good though and will stay. There are always minor nations that never get exposure even though they have some great athletes.

I get that the Olympics will always have greater credibility than the World Cup, but the World Cup deserves some kind of credit for having a guy like Kopitar being able to play. We wouldn't even see him at all at the Olympics since Slovenia doesn't get past qualification usually.

 

[GoldiFox]

TLDR: The World Cup features some great adjustments that make the games more competitive and fun to watch. So far it has been very entertaining and the players seem to like it. Cranky traditionalists don't like changes or kids playing on their lawn and will continue to whine despite the fact that they are likely watching and enjoying the games. Somewhat meaningful hockey featuring the World's best players is being played in September. 99% of hockey fans rejoice.

 

[RandV]

Not only Switzerland and Slovakia, but to all countries who try hard to emerge in hockey. For the NHL, they do not exist, nor matter. And this is why a regional league should never be tasked with organizing tournaments at international level.

To be fair when the NHL was putting together this tournament IIHF and participation from European leagues was uncertain. In the worst case scenario, where only the NHL is participating, they wouldn't have enough available players to make a team Switzerland or Slovakia. I mean as it is now team World barely has a legitimate blue line for the tournament.

Anyways I'm not really defending the NHL here, just saying there's a legitimate reason for the current format so the angry mob should probably be hold back until we see what they do in 2020. Now that they have the IIHF onboard, will they create a more proper tournament, or go revert to the gimmicks?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Henrik Sedin just on Sportsnet, on what he thinks about the comparison between the olympics and the world cup, after he had a taste of the pre-tournament game against Finland

"I think when this is over, it's gonna be up there with the olympics for sure. And I think playing in Toronto is a key to that, cause it's played in Canada, its played in one city and you're not travelling around different cities, like we did in '04, so I think it's gonna be up there with the olympics, absolutely."

on playing such an intense game right out of gate

"half way through the game I felt much better, but the first period was, huh, like Daniel said, Daniel said after the game "I was ready to retire after the first period", cause the pace was high, and everyone was just throwing pucks everywhere, it was a real feeling. But half way through the game the game was starting to slow down, you got more comfortable out there so, I felt a lot better going into the third period and into the overtime."

on whether the players like the idea of Team North America/Europe, or if they like the traditional format with 8 countries

"I would say right now I'm excited. When it came out in the news I was a little hesitant about the whole thing, but I'd rather have it this way where all the teams can win and like I said in olympics you can lose one or two games you know you're gonna beat some of the lesser teams and move on anyways into the quarter-final, this year at this tournament you have to be prepared for each and every game to win and that's, I like it better this way."

So Sedin was hesitant, but now prefers this format to the Olympics, that's very interesting indeed. I have said all along that I don't like these gimmick teams but comments like this make me glad I have also said I'll keep an open mind and see how all this plays out.

I wonder how some of the biggest haters of this format feel about this? Shocked into silence perhaps? This isn't just some random fan speaking, this is freaking Henrik Sedin!!

World Cup credibility just went up several points IMO. Cool!

 

[Past Considerations]

It's pretty clear that with the large crowds in Quebec, Helsinki and St. Petersburg for exhibition games that this is not going to be a bust financially.

I wouldn't draw any conclusions about these games. People in Quebec are hungry of seeing any NHL players in action, and Olympics are never going to be held in Helsinki or St Petersburg, so people would be interested even if the game was a friendly.

 

[Jablkon]

So Sedin was hesitant, but now prefers this format to the Olympics, that's very interesting indeed. I have said all along that I don't like these gimmick teams but comments like this make me glad I have also said I'll keep an open mind and see how all this plays out.

I wonder how some of the biggest haters of this format feel about this? Shocked into silence perhaps? This isn't just some random fan speaking, this is freaking Henrik Sedin!!

World Cup credibility just went up several points IMO. Cool!

We all know players love it. I am completely ok with it. But how can he say such nonsense like format where all the teams can win???? This is out of reality. As I said before, in that case scratch Oilers and Leafs, they are useless. Put them together and create one team from them. And now you probably start to explain me why that is not possible, tradition , fans etc. As far I see it here, euro fans from that rest of Europe are mostly offended by it and I personally feel quite offended that someone else here set up the thread where he suggest to mix half of my team with team Russia or team Europe....

 

[Seanaconda]

We all know players love it. I am completely ok with it. But how can he say such nonsense like format where all the teams can win???? This is out of reality. As I said before, in that case scratch Oilers and Leafs, they are useless. Put them together and create one team from them. And now you probably start to explain me why that is not possible, tradition , fans etc. As far I see it here, euro fans from that rest of Europe are mostly offended by it and I personally feel quite offended that someone else here set up the thread where he suggest to mix half of my team with team Russia or team Europe....

different 1 month tournament vs building a team over years. So like a playoff draft vs a keeper league with your friends.

 

[Past Considerations]

So like a playoff draft vs a keeper league with your friends.

Sure this describes this tournament well.