Rumor: VHN: Having spoken to four NHL GM’s just today, VHN can report that there are (at least) two Metro Division teams still interested Miller

[crowi]

Maybe he thought it was going to be a discussion about beer?

True question is why we have a ALL MILLER THINGS thread and keep getting new ones posted?

 

[Raistlin]

once upon a time people thought Sakic overplayed his hand re Duchene, you never know. But JR/Allvin definitely underestimated the distraction aspect of this Miller situation in a canadian market. the more its out there being speculated, the less perceived value is Miller going to have. its akin to a home seller keep adjusting the asking price, it makes him look desperate. Only that its not JR adjusting, its the Drances and Irf doing it for him.

 

[Canuck86]

Absolutely no interest from the Islanders in Miller. Not only do we have Barzal, Nelson, and Pageau, as our Top 3 centers we also need to sign Sorokin, This rumor is 1,000% Vancouver trying to create a market for a player who they realize they probably cant afford to resign.

but maybe they can, it may just be they need to move out others. but one thing I know for certain is that it wont be the Islanders. last year was a total outlier for miller since his career average is 45.4 points a season (454/10 years) even if you subtract the 3 partial seasons early in his career that still leaves him a 60 point player (421/7 years) He simply isnt that much better than what we already have to, give up assets for him and to pay him.

even most Canuck fans agree he will never put up 99 points again. so i seriously doubt Lou would even consider going after miller. he's just not a player who fits the defense first style of play

Always comical reading another teams fans point of view... Could JT repeat his 99pt season or dare I say top it...sure why not?!?

JT put up 99pts in a year where Pettersson had a horrible start to the season, so if he plays a full year like he finished last season there is a reasonable chance JT could get close to his 99pt season or pass it.

Would I bet my life savings on it happening NO...I am not an idiot just a hockey fan who can see its not UNreasonable to happen

 

[Tact]

Then in June they won't be willing to pay what Miller wants, and let him walk.

Absolutely, it’s his retirement contract - Miller will then have all the leverage going to free agency. He wouldn’t take a Canucks offer and for the fans/media his cover is, “I’ve been trying to make it work, I wanted to stay in Vancouver”.

 

[kilowatt]

Grans or Spence would be my preference. Add in a young forward (Anderson-Dolan/Kupari) and a pick and it’s something I’d be interested in.

I’d do Grans, JAD, and a pick for sure.

Fiala - Kopitar - Kaliyev
Miller - Byfield - Kempe
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Theory: for players close to free agency, increasing quality offers diminishing trade returns. The difference in quality between say Matt Duchene (to Columbus) and say Nick Foligno (to Toronto) was significant, but the difference in trade value was marginal by comparison.

This is to say the Canucks didn’t make a meaningful blunder. The timing was bad. Miller is too old and unproven (relative to his 99 point production) to pull the top tier centerpiece desired, time of trade be damned. Dealing him in the Spring gets them an extra pick or prospect of some value, but doesn’t fundamentally alter the structure of the trade. No big deal.

 

[zcaptain]

That is 110% correct. Miller should have been traded before the last TDL. Two playoff runs on that deal/AAV would have been so valuable.

But Vancouver didn’t pull the trigger and Miller spent the 2022 playoffs golfing. Not smart GM work. Value drops quite a bit.

So The next best time was before the draft and UFA, but a trade didn’t happen there either. Maybe because values would have been less than at the 2022 TDL.

Right now is a bad time for Vancouver to trade him. No teams are despairing or over the barrel. W/L records are 0-0-0. Optimism abounds. No pressure from fans or owner on the GM. It’s quiet.

But the problem for Vancouver is now Miller goes thru TC with Vancouver. He plays games for Vancouver. He could get injured. He could play like crap. Vancouver could be better than expected and he’s playing a critical role that makes it hard to move him.

This GM has overplayed his hand. His best case scenario now is probably signing Miller to an 8 year deal. Otherwise he’s going to have to swallow hard and take a rental deal that won’t knock anyone’s socks off and will make his 2022-2023 team less competitive heading into the stretch run. This GM is playing a game of chicken and others are still driving right now the fairway as if he’s not there.

What if miller get 110 points this year? I mean, you list all the bad things, which is fine and fair, but Miller's trend has been upward, so what if he get's those 110 points, then what is his value?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

kinda insane to say miller and zibanejad aren't on the same level

like, we're not talking about zibanejad in comparison to ryan reaves here lmao

Zibanejad throughout his career has been more of a purebred center though, so a team with a big hole at the centerice position would prob prefer Mika. That's a big deal. I know as a Ranger fan, I would not think about trading Zib for Miller. I see Miller sliding back and forth wing/center in coming years and eventually becoming a full time winger again as he gets older.

And that's not even the point. The point is really that Miller isn't even a clear upgrade over someone like Zibanejad, who's a solid/good 1st line center but not a great one. So no ones paying the ransom for him with that in mind because he's just not as valuable as some VAN fans think

 

[McJedi]

What if miller get 110 points this year? I mean, you list all the bad things, which is fine and fair, but Miller's trend has been upward, so what if he get's those 110 points, then what is his value?

Vancouver resigns him 8 x $11mm. That’s a hell of an elite player. Congratulations on your likely playoff birth, lucky you.

Trade a lesser player like Horvat or EP. Because you don’t trade your best player, by a lot if he’s a 110 point guy, to ruin your season.

 

[zcaptain]

Vancouver resigns him 8 x $11mm. That’s a hell of an elite player. Congratulations on your likely playoff birth, lucky you.

Trade a lesser player like Horvat or EP. Because you don’t trade your best player, by a lot if he’s a 110 point guy, to ruin your season.

I don't think you understand............I agree, with not signing him to a long contract
I am just saying, you mentioned all the bad things and that is what you are resting your argument on

But I am curious, as IMO, do you think a 8.5 X 7 years is bad? It is a messed situation, for sure!

IMO, I trade him now for a bushel of beans...........aka a RH Dman and picks, and relax until next season

 

[McJedi]

I don't think you understand............I agree, with not signing him to a long contract
I am just saying, you mentioned all the bad things and that is what you are resting your argument on

But I am curious, as IMO, do you think a 8.5 X 7 years is bad? It is a messed situation, for sure!

IMO, I trade him now for a bushel of beans...........aka a RH Dman and picks, and relax until next season

Why in the hell would Miller sign for so little and one less year of term if he’s a 110 point guy? Add a few more million per + year 8.

Vancouver could trade him for a mid late 20s, middle pair D and low 1st. I’d say a guy the level of a Dumba caliber… but with more term on his deal.

Or go after a younger RHD and forget the added first rounder.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I don't really get the backlash to Vancouver management. This is just media throwing darts. They are probably still trying to A. resign Miller and B. make the playoffs. No rush for them. Value is gonna only be a tiny bit better now then it will be at the trade deadline, maybe even better a the deadline considering the salary aspect of it. Imo, I would have moved him before the draft (if I didn't think there was a chance to resign him) and if I couldn't, would just wait until the trade deadline at this point. Vancouver GM is doing exactly what I would do in this situation.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

What if miller get 110 points this year? I mean, you list all the bad things, which is fine and fair, but Miller's trend has been upward, so what if he get's those 110 points, then what is his value?

8x10 million dollar contract. Probably an even worse scenario as we would probably keep him and make the playoffs.

 

[BWJM]

I have a funny feeling it will end up being the Capitals. Something feels weird about TJ Oshie & JT Miller on the same team though.

Can someone please sell me on Connor McMichael.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

I have a funny feeling it will end up being the Capitals. Something feels weird about TJ Oshie & JT Miller on the same team though.

Can someone please sell me on Connor McMichael.

1st + McMichael + Orlov, probably.

 

[sting101]

I think Miller can play in the east obviously. But I'd expect his numbers to decline by about 20%

Yes it will be much tougher playing against 7 junk teams with less travel

 

[sting101]

Zibanejad throughout his career has been more of a purebred center though, so a team with a big hole at the centerice position would prob prefer Mika. That's a big deal. I know as a Ranger fan, I would not think about trading Zib for Miller. I see Miller sliding back and forth wing/center in coming years and eventually becoming a full time winger again as he gets older.

And that's not even the point. The point is really that Miller isn't even a clear upgrade over someone like Zibanejad, who's a solid/good 1st line center but not a great one. So no ones paying the ransom for him with that in mind because he's just not as valuable as some VAN fans think

What is the value difference if Miller had the exact same contract?

 

[God]

Zibanejad throughout his career has been more of a purebred center though, so a team with a big hole at the centerice position would prob prefer Mika. That's a big deal. I know as a Ranger fan, I would not think about trading Zib for Miller. I see Miller sliding back and forth wing/center in coming years and eventually becoming a full time winger again as he gets older.

And that's not even the point. The point is really that Miller isn't even a clear upgrade over someone like Zibanejad, who's a solid/good 1st line center but not a great one. So no ones paying the ransom for him with that in mind because he's just not as valuable as some VAN fans think

ok but

the guy said they weren't on the same level

but they're literally on the same level

 

[Filthy Dangles]

What is the value difference if Miller had the exact same contract?

It might be somewhat close, but I'd say teams would value Zibanejad more.

He's been the more consistent player to date, and is more of that purebred center who's maintenance free. Miller had an unreal year but i'd def trust Zibanejad more playing key minutes at center for my team in big games like the playoffs.

 

[andora]

I still think it's Columbus or NJ Devils

But.............I would take

Columbus.................Peeke, Cleumans and a 1st...........for Miller and Hoglander
NJ Devils....................Marino, Sharangovich and a 1st ........for Miller and Hoglander

I honestly believe if they are getting peeke or marino .. that is THE piece and there arent first rounders attached to that.

Peeke, 2nd and 3rd, and Player
Marino, 2nd and 3rd, and player

.

You have teams losing defensemen to get Miller. Unless the plan was always to move those players I don’t see how a TDL deals gets them.

Agreed - i think if they are dead set on a RHD they will need to accept a younger guy that is outside looking in on his team.

Miller at the deadline isnt returning nearly as much as if he was traded in early July with an extension. Nor will a deadline trade have freed any capspace, as theyd have to take a player or two back.

New management in Vancouver but off to a not so good start. But anything is better than how they were left

Not off to a good start in total or just the trading aspect?

 

[Big Muddy]

I wouldnt so certain about that, i doubt Lou cares much about key future pieces that are years away from making a difference. Lou is on his sunset ride, he wants to go out with a bang, his rep has taken quite a hit lately. I doubt he wont make a big move and will stand pat as you say and allow the islandrs to be an average to below average roster in his final season or 2.

You may be right but its amusing to see a person's hypothesis is stated like its fact. Don't think people here are inside Lou's mind.

I have no horse in this race, so I won't be replying.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

We already know Lou’s opinion he tried to acquire Kadri, but he said in the end he wasn’t going to hurt the long term future of the franchise by committing to a bad deal so when kadri decided he wanted more than what Lou was willing to go for, that was it.

This was after telling season ticket holders his intention was to bring in a big ticket item. So if he wasn’t willing to go beyond his means to satisfy the paying customers because it wasn’t prudent to do so, he won’t do it for Miller either.

Lou isn’t one to let outside pressures change his thinking. If anything he just gets more determined to “Do it his way”

Did he actually say that, or are you assuming that? Honestly curious?

 

[Tusks Up]

I honestly believe if they are getting peeke or marino .. that is THE piece and there arent first rounders attached to that.

Peeke, 2nd and 3rd, and Player
Marino, 2nd and 3rd, and player

Agreed - i think if they are dead set on a RHD they will need to accept a younger guy that is outside looking in on his team.

Not off to a good start in total or just the trading aspect?

Not off to a good start on the JT Miller front I meant. Id have liked to see him moved early when new management came in; dont want lingering issues from the past group if you can help it.

 

[Peter Griffin]

That is what he said. At the end of the season. He talked to season ticket holders promising to acquire an offensive player to help the team return to the playoffs.

Then when he announced the Dobson, Romanov and Bellows signings he addressed his failure to do as he promised. And that in his opinion they had made a fair offer to Kadri but that the cost to move out salary proved to be prohibitive and that necessitated a change in the plan

Lamouriello has regularly had these "state of the franchise" talks with the season ticket holders since Ledecky and Malkin, ownership hired him...he doesn't go into specifics of course but the general broad strokes are pretty obvious.

He also addressed the Trotz situation as trying to help Barry with a family situation which being coach would only make it harder on his family and wanting to free him to do what was best. Without feeling obligations as coach.

That doesn’t sound like he wasn’t willing to pay Kadri, it sounds like he wasn’t willing to pay other teams to take Josh Bailey or whomever he was required to dump.

 

[andora]

Not off to a good start on the JT Miller front I meant. Id have liked to see him moved early when new management came in; dont want lingering issues from the past group if you can help it.

Fair enough

I dont have anything but a personal feeling but i think they also wanted to evaluate what they have in miller and horvat as they have to choose one