Rumor: VHN: Having spoken to four NHL GM’s just today, VHN can report that there are (at least) two Metro Division teams still interested Miller

[McJedi]

And I think that ask is because they haven’t made up their damn minds that they actually want to trade him yet. I think once they realize he isn’t coming back their ask will change, but they may not be until the trade deadline.

At this point they may as well keep him for now unless they get a great offer as they’ve already missed the opportunity to possibly replace him with the opened up capspace.

There is risk his play declines but if it doesn’t, Miller should hold ample value at the TDL. GMs take risks. One risk is to keep Miller around to see if he propels Vancouver into a playoff spot (good problem). Or Vancouver still kinda sucks but he’s playing great (bad problem for Vancouver but great of Miller’s trade value). Or Miller plays poorly this season and underwhelms (all around bad for Vancouver)

If I was their GM, I’d roll the dice and hold JT Miller closer to the deadline. When certain teams can make silly offers Vancouver couldn’t refuse.

 

[zcaptain]

As an Islanders fan, I learned all I needed about the Vancouver hockey media when Matt Moulson was named 'Matt Coulson' in an article in 2011, when he was well on his way to his 2nd 30 goal season.

I've never bought the JT Miller to the metro division player hype. I don't think Miller is at Zibanejad's level, and the return + his contract will be predicated on Zibanejad + because of his recent numbers. That's a loss right away, and imo a huge loss on the back end of the contract he'll get.

Kadri's cost of acquisition was too much for NYI (because of the asset cost of moving salary). The cost of acquiring Miller would be significantly higher. Also, Kadri would have been an instant fit with NYI's mo/style. Miller, not so much. I would be absolutely shocked if NYI had any interest.

I am sorry, but you may be the only person on the earth that does not see Miller and Zibanejad as direct comparisons in every way.

In fact, Miller out points Zibanejad in the past 3 years, and may even have had a better last 3 years..............

Believe what you want to believe, but there is not alot of difference in the 2 players...............

 

[Peter Griffin]

There is risk his play declines but if it doesn’t, Miller should hold ample value at the TDL. GMs take risks. One risk is to keep Miller around to see if he propels Vancouver into a playoff spot (good problem). Or Vancouver still kinda sucks but he’s playing great (bad problem for Vancouver but great of Miller’s trade value). Or Miller plays poorly this season and underwhelms (all around bad for Vancouver)

If I was their GM, I’d roll the dice and hold JT Miller closer to the deadline. When certain teams can make silly offers Vancouver couldn’t refuse.

I think this is exactly what they’ll do. The real question is how they handle the situation if the team is in a playoff position at the deadline and Miller remains unsigned.

I think a lot depends on how Elias Pettersson plays as well. He started the year horribly but turned it on the 2nd half. He also played a fair amount of wing as well. If he starts the year playing well at center, that makes management’s decision to move on from Miller much easier.

 

[McJedi]

I think this is exactly what they’ll do. The real question is how they handle the situation if the team is in a playoff position at the deadline and Miller remains unsigned.

That was the good problem. Which is still a problem. Do you self rent JT Miller for a single playoff run?

I wouldn’t (I’d trade him) but dealing him away would crater their ability to be a factor in the playoffs or even make them. So it’s tricky. and I’d rip the face off of the team that acquired him.

I’m an Avs fan so let’s say they called at the deadline and Vancouver is in a playoff position. I’d demand Newhook + 1st and not come off it as Vancouvers GM.

I’d make Sakic (or another GM) pay thru the nose to justify the decision to tank your own successful season.

 

[Peter Griffin]

That was the good problem. Which is still a problem. Do you self rent JT Miller for a single playoff run?

I wouldn’t (I’d trade him) but dealing him away would crater their ability to be a factor in the playoffs or even make them. So it’s tricky. and I’d rip the face off of the team that acquire him.

JR has said they can’t be in a position to lose him for nothing, but we’ll see. I think if they’re atop the division at the deadline(unlikely) they self-rent. Anything else and he’s dealt.

 

[Profet]

I am sorry, but you may be the only person on the earth that does not see Miller and Zibanejad as direct comparisons in every way.

In fact, Miller out points Zibanejad in the past 3 years, and may even have had a better last 3 years..............

Believe what you want to believe, but there is not alot of difference in the 2 players...............

Oh Miller must have gotten much better at controlling his uncanny ability to take "Bonehead" penalties...

::looks at stats::

nope.

Not worth arguing.

Believe what you want, but J.T. Miller is not on Zib's level.

 

[McJedi]

JR has said they can’t be in a position to lose him for nothing, but we’ll see. I think if they’re atop the division at the deadline(unlikely) they self-rent. Anything else and he’s dealt.

I may add 2nd in the pacific to that self rent as well.

It’s going to be hard to explain to a fan base that you torpedoed your season while in a solid playoff spot.

2nd place in the pacific got to play the worst playoff opponent last year IMO and probably will again this year. Being #2 in the pacific is like having a 1st overall seed in round 1.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I may add 2nd in the pacific to that self rent as well.

It’s going to be hard to explain to a fan base that you torpedoed your season while in a solid playoff spot.

2nd place in the pacific got to play the worst playoff opponent last year IMO and probably will again this year. Being #2 in the pacific is like having a 1st overall seed in round 1.

Probably depends on how far a difference there is between 2nd and a wildcard spot. But I agree, if they’re comfortably in a playoff position I think it would be very hard for them to move him.

 

[bossram]

I’d be shocked if he is. The hold up is clearly the Vancouver ask vs what the market is offering.

Yep. Teams don't want to pay what Allvin wants. He thought the offers would get better in the offseason, but they didn't He overplayed his hand.

As I said before the trade deadline, the best value for Miller was going to be as an uber cheap (50% retained) super two-playoff rental for a contender. One year is scratched off that now.

 

[zcaptain]

What I find interesting in the Miller talk is it raises so many questions of cost.................

Now, Zibanejad is starting his 8 his, $8,500,000 per season contract this year, where as Miller has 1 more year at $5,250,000, so here is a question I put out to this fan base, purely as a question

If the NY Ranger management, felt secure in signing Zibanejad to that 8 year contract with a $8,500,000 Cap hit, then that is pretty much his value, and I would think it would be pretty much his cost on the open market.

Now with Miller having that $5,250,000 season before getting a new contract, what is his ask for his new contract?

I mean, is it 1 year of current $5,250,000 then he is trying to sell another 8 years at $8,500,000, like Zibanejad? Or is it this year at $5,250,000 plus a higher than Zibanejad contract for the next 7 years, to equal Zibaejads new contract?

So to equal Zibanejad's new contract ($68,000,000), Miller's new contract has to be 7 years, and just under $9,000,000 per season for 7 years, which putts him out of reach for just about everyone.

I do not know how you look at the comparables and pay those costs, just on cap alone?

IMO, and yes, it is only mine! Miller's current contract is a steal, at $5,250,000 for this season, and well worth the assets to get him, but IMO, he get's traded at the next TDL for a pile of good assets, that is where his value is.

Miller at 50% at the TDL brings you what?

Risk? Yes! As a Vancouver fan that obviously thinks Miller's value is high, I will laugh my arse off if Miller falls flat on his face this years and has a crappy season. I would serve Aqualini and JR right!

 

[UrbanImpact]

I’m so sick of hearing about Miller. Make a deal or don’t. The endless speculation is exhausting.

may i ask why you went into a Miller thread then?

 

[zcaptain]

Oh Miller must have gotten much better at controlling his uncanny ability to take "Bonehead" penalties...

::looks at stats::

nope.

Not worth arguing.

Believe what you want, but J.T. Miller is not on Zib's level.

You can say what ever you want, but they are just words unless you back it up................

Size, age, weight, are all the same..............

Points go to Miller, Versatility of position (Miller plays a 3 positions well) goes to Miller

You have to keep in mind that Zibanejad plays with better players, in general, which helps his point totals....

I am not saying one is better than the other......................I am saying they are close in comparison, and I am not getting into "who has the bigger one!"

 

[Profet]

You can say what ever you want, but they are just words unless you back it up................

Size, age, weight, are all the same..............

Points go to Miller, Versatility of position (Miller plays a 3 positions well) goes to Miller

You have to keep in mind that Zibanejad plays with better players, in general, which helps his point totals....

I am not saying one is better than the other......................I am saying they are close in comparison, and I am not getting into "who has the bigger one!"

Still didn't address Miller's inopportune penalties.

All things being equal... I don't think there are a lot of people (any?) that take Miller over Zib.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

may i ask why you went into a Miller thread then?

Maybe he thought it was going to be a discussion about beer?

 

[saintunspecified]

Lol, it was literally my point that Miller compares to Zibanejad in terms of stats (which would have a major bearing on his contract), but he's neither the athlete, nor the player Zibanejad is.

Honestly, the prospect of being an islanders fan and knowing my team would be on the wrong side of that comparison to Rangers fans over 7 years scared me a lot. Would've sucked.

 

[BayStBullies]

I think Miller can play in the east obviously. But I'd expect his numbers to decline by about 20%

That may very well happen just from leaving the Pacific.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

And I think that ask is because they haven’t made up their damn minds that they actually want to trade him yet. I think once they realize he isn’t coming back their ask will change, but they may not be until the trade deadline.

At this point they may as well keep him for now unless they get a great offer as they’ve already missed the opportunity to possibly replace him with the opened up capspace.

I do think Van. can get at least a 1st + a decent prospect or two at the deadline, so why would they settle for less right now. Only real risk is him getting injured, but that is a risk teams take every season.

 

[God]

kinda insane to say miller and zibanejad aren't on the same level

like, we're not talking about zibanejad in comparison to ryan reaves here lmao

 

[Peter Griffin]

I do think Van. can get at least a 1st + a decent prospect or two at the deadline, so why would they settle for less right now. Only real risk is him getting injured, but that is a risk teams take every season.

Yea for sure. At this point they may as well
keep him and if they start the season poorly, maybe look at dealing him in November, otherwise hang onto him and reassess at the deadline.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

kinda insane to say miller and zibanejad aren't on the same level

like, we're not talking about zibanejad in comparison to ryan reaves here lmao

Consider how close in ability 2 players have to be for someone to argue: 'Yeah but my guy doesn't take dumb penalties'!
How far down a list of comparables does dumb penalties vs no dumb penalties fall?

 

[McJedi]

Yep. Teams don't want to pay what Allvin wants. He thought the offers would get better in the offseason, but they didn't He overplayed his hand.

As I said before the trade deadline, the best value for Miller was going to be as an uber cheap (50% retained) super two-playoff rental for a contender. One year is scratched off that now.

That is 110% correct. Miller should have been traded before the last TDL. Two playoff runs on that deal/AAV would have been so valuable.

But Vancouver didn’t pull the trigger and Miller spent the 2022 playoffs golfing. Not smart GM work. Value drops quite a bit.

So The next best time was before the draft and UFA, but a trade didn’t happen there either. Maybe because values would have been less than at the 2022 TDL.

Right now is a bad time for Vancouver to trade him. No teams are despairing or over the barrel. W/L records are 0-0-0. Optimism abounds. No pressure from fans or owner on the GM. It’s quiet.

But the problem for Vancouver is now Miller goes thru TC with Vancouver. He plays games for Vancouver. He could get injured. He could play like crap. Vancouver could be better than expected and he’s playing a critical role that makes it hard to move him.

This GM has overplayed his hand. His best case scenario now is probably signing Miller to an 8 year deal. Otherwise he’s going to have to swallow hard and take a rental deal that won’t knock anyone’s socks off and will make his 2022-2023 team less competitive heading into the stretch run. This GM is playing a game of chicken and others are still driving right now the fairway as if he’s not there.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Consider how close in ability 2 players have to be for someone to argue: 'Yeah but my guy doesn't take dumb penalties'!
How far down a list of comparables does dumb penalties vs no dumb penalties fall?

 

[Homesick]

I just want the Canucks to re-sign him to an 8x9+ deal

 

[bossram]

That is 110% correct. Miller should have been traded before the last TDL. Two playoff runs on that deal/AAV would have been so valuable.

But Vancouver didn’t pull the trigger and Miller spent the 2022 playoffs golfing. Not smart GM work. Value drops quite a bit.

So The next best time was before the draft and UFA, but a trade didn’t happen there either. Maybe because values would have been less than at the 2022 TDL.

Right now is a bad time for Vancouver to trade him. No teams are despairing or over the barrel. W/L records are 0-0-0. Optimism abounds. No pressure from fans or owner on the GM. It’s quiet.

But the problem for Vancouver is now Miller goes thru TC with Vancouver. He plays games for Vancouver. He could get injured. He could play like crap. Vancouver could be better than expected and he’s playing a critical role that makes it hard to move him.

This GM has overplayed his hand. His best case scenario now is probably signing Miller to an 8 year deal. Otherwise he’s going to have to swallow hard and take a rental deal that won’t knock anyone’s socks off and will make his 2022-2023 team less competitive heading into the stretch run. This GM is playing a game of chicken and others are still driving right now the fairway as if he’s not there.

JR/Allvin are going to get locked into a lose-lose situation and it's their own doing.

No one has the room or inclination to trade for Miller right now. But if they keep him, they'll find it hard to move him in-season because the Canucks will inevitably be on the playoff bubble, and it'll look bad to the casual fans and locker room if they trade him during the stretch run. So they'll keep him as an own-rental.

Then in June they won't be willing to pay what Miller wants, and let him walk.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

JR/Allvin are going to get locked into a lose-lose situation and it's their own doing.

No one has the room or inclination to trade for Miller right now. But if they keep him, they'll find it hard to move him in-season because the Canucks will inevitably be on the playoff bubble, and it'll look bad to the casual fans and locker room if they trade him during the stretch run. So they'll keep him as an own-rental.

Then in June they won't be willing to pay what Miller wants, and let him walk.

This is what I think is (unfortunately) the most likely scenario