Speculation: Vancouver - Pittsburgh

[Empoleon8771]

I’d value Hoglander at the level of 2024 1st quite easily. I think you’re in for a surprise if you feel a strictly rental of Guentzel is going to bring back the equivalent of two 1sts.

Every comparable rental player to Guentzel has brought back that value comfortably.

If guys like Tyler Toffoli can bring back a 1st and 2nd in value, why would Guentzel not be able to pull off 2 1sts when Guentzel is a much better player?

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Just close this thread. Vancouver fans don't want to give up anything of value for Guentzel.

Because we already paid a lot for an underachieving Lindholm.

 

[God]

lol hoglander at his contract and production is worth more than guentzel. no thanks.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I'd be shocked if Dubi didn't add a conditional 1st or 2nd if the team getting him makes the SCF or re-signs him in the offseason.

 

[Ryder71]

After watching the game last night, I would do:

Mikheyev+Lekkerimaki+1st
or
Hogland+Lekkerimaki+2nd

for

Guentzel @ 50%
A prospect/young player that's not Yager, Pickering, or Puustinen. Something like Zam Plante.

Your second deal to me is a lot more enticing hog,lek,2hd

Not sure we could get all that. HOG and LEK would be great.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Every comparable rental player to Guentzel has brought back that value comfortably.

If guys like Tyler Toffoli can bring back a 1st and 2nd in value, why would Guentzel not be able to pull off 2 1sts when Guentzel is a much better player?

You’re expecting two 1sts+ though and that’s equating Hoglander, a young NHL’er on pace for 20+ ES goals to a late 1st which is honestly light. How many pure rentals have returned two 1sts+ is recent memory?

And Toffoli was traded with 2+ years left on a very good contract. Strange comparison.

 

[Ryder71]

Because we already paid a lot for an underachieving Lindholm.

Who knows what Jake brings to the table more than VAN's brain trust? They know exactly who'd they be getting. JR was the one who signed Jake to his extension. He loves him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You’re expecting two 1sts+ though and that’s equating Hoglander, a young NHL’er on pace for 20+ ES goals to a late 1st which is honestly light.

And Toffoli was traded with 2+ years left on a very good contract. Strange comparison.

Which is entirely reasonable for what rental players on par with Guentzel go for.

Giroux forced himself to only having 1 trade option with the Panthers, yet Philly still got Tippet, a 1st and 3rd for him. New Jersey got an insane haul for Hall when they got Merkley, Schnarr, Bahl, a 1st and a 3rd for him as a rental.

2 1sts in value for Guentzel is the absolute minimum he'll bring back.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Debatable. The risk with Guentzel is you don't know how he'll perform sans Crosby. Is he truly a difference maker or does he benefit extremely well from playing with Sid? If a team gives up bluechip prospects and high picks only for Guentzel to be a low end top 6 player/3rd line player, it aint gonna look so good.

Crosby is like 20th in scoring and almost 37 years old. He'll do fine with any decent center. Guentzel was actually our leading scorer for most of the year.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Which is entirely reasonable for what rental players on par with Guentzel go for.

Giroux forced himself to only having 1 trade option with the Panthers, yet Philly still got Tippet, a 1st and 3rd for him. New Jersey got an insane haul for Hall when they got Merkley, Schnarr, Bahl, a 1st and a 3rd for him as a rental.

2 1sts in value for Guentzel is the absolute minimum he'll bring back.

You think Tippett coming off two seasons of 12 goal level production was worth a 1st at the time of the trade? No chance any team was giving Florida a 1st for that level of production in his D+4 season. As far Hall, when was he traded?In December? An extra 4 months and 20/30 games when dealing in a rental situation definitely adds some value.

Overall value when adding in secondary pieces to equate two 2 1sts, maybe. But 2 1sts+, I doubt it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hell, we already have a trade this year where Vancouver paid Kuzmenko (who Canucks fans insist had value), Jurmo, Brzustewicz, a 2024 1st and a conditional 2023 3rd/4th for Lindholm, who's way worse than Guentzel. Even if you ignore Kuzmenko, that's still a 1st, 2 3rds (one of which is having a stellar season in the OHL) and another 3rd/4th for Lindholm, who's a clearly worse player than Guentzel. In total, the Canucks probably paid around a 1st, 2nd and 3rd in value for Lindholm, and that's with me not bumping up Brzustewicz's value based on the monster season he's having this year.

But apparently 2 1sts for Guentzel is somehow not reasonable?

 

[Peter Griffin]

Hell, we already have a trade this year where Vancouver paid Kuzmenko (who Canucks fans insist had value), Jurmo, Brzustewicz, a 2024 1st and a conditional 2023 3rd/4th for Lindholm, who's way worse than Guentzel. Even if you ignore Kuzmenko, that's still a 1st, 2 3rds (one of which is having a stellar season in the OHL) and another 3rd/4th for Lindholm, who's a clearly worse player than Guentzel. In total, the Canucks probably paid around a 1st, 2nd and 3rd in value for Lindholm, and that's with me not bumping up Brzustewicz's value based on the monster season he's having this year.

But apparently 2 1sts for Guentzel is somehow not reasonable?

Ok then, how about Hoglander, Raty, Mikheyev and a 2nd for Guentzel? That’s the equivalent of a 1st, two 3rds and a 2nd. Same as 2 1sts, right?

 

[Canucks LB]

Trading Höglander, who is finally breaking out for UFA makes no sense

 

[Empoleon8771]

Ok then, how about Hoglander, Raty, Mikheyev and a 2nd for Guentzel? That’s the equivalent of a 1st, two 3rds and a 2nd. Same as 2 1sts, right?

The difference in value between Lindholm and Guentzel is larger than just a 3rd.

Overall, I would do Mikheyev, Raty, Hoglander and a 2025 1st for Guentzel. That's the kind of value I think he'd have as a rental. To me, that's 2 late 1sts and a 2nd/3rd in value. That's what I'd expect Guentzel to bring back.

Using another team, I think his value to someone like Vegas would be Brisson, a 2024 1st and either a 2024 2nd/3rd or another prospect like Dorofeyev. 2 late 1sts plus another 2nd/3rd round asset in value is what I'm expecting Guentzel to bring back.

 

[Lemieuxs]

I think Vancouver is not the right trading partner.... at least when analyzing the fan's comments here.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

I'd rather try to bend Holland over a barrel. Holloway + a 1st and a 2nd.

This is terrible for the Pens.

 

[Empoleon8771]

 

[SEALBound]

If a team is willing to go 7yrs and it drops Guentzel to the $8mil mark, that changes the game a bit. I think some of us were thinking $9.5-10.5mil. $8mil is very tolerable if they send back Mikheyev or something.

You could really see the Mikheyev, Lekkerimaki, 1st, 2nd like return.

 

[Wattsburgh]

Like I said, Canucks fans are in for a treat with Rutherford around.

 

[Ryder71]

Trading Höglander, who is finally breaking out for UFA makes no sense

You gotta give to get. You'd be getting one of the premiere LW in all of hockey who's a post season beast! With the OEL buy out you guys are gonna have issues there coming up. May be a good idea to make hay while you can. Hoglander is a nice player and PIT would do well to get him, but he's nowhere near the player Jake currently is.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No sense in the Pens - a team that's trying to compete now and for the duration of Crosby's time here - giving up a proven playoff killer like Guentzel unless the futures return is so substantial that they can't say no.

A late 1st plus ain't even close. We'll keep him, thanks. Everybody's happy.

 

[Ryder71]

Like I said, Canucks fans are in for a treat with Rutherford around.

Winning B2B cups?

 

[Peter Griffin]

The difference in value between Lindholm and Guentzel is larger than just a 3rd.

Overall, I would do Mikheyev, Raty, Hoglander and a 2025 1st for Guentzel. That's the kind of value I think he'd have as a rental. To me, that's 2 late 1sts and a 2nd/3rd in value. That's what I'd expect Guentzel to bring back.

Using another team, I think his value to someone like Vegas would be Brisson, a 2024 1st and either a 2024 2nd/3rd or another prospect like Dorofeyev. 2 late 1sts plus another 2nd/3rd round asset in value is what I'm expecting Guentzel to bring back.

I think my issue is with including Hoglander, he’s by far better player than most teams would conceivably trade for a rental. Teams top prospects also rarely get moved for pure rentals but I’m not too familiar with Vegas’ prospect pool to know where Brisson ranks.

If a team is willing to go 7yrs and it drops Guentzel to the $8mil mark, that changes the game a bit. I think some of us were thinking $9.5-10.5mil. $8mil is very tolerable if they send back Mikheyev or something.

You could really see the Mikheyev, Lekkerimaki, 1st, 2nd like return.

For a signed Guentzel I’d have no issues with this package. Bring it on!

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Like I said, Canucks fans are in for a treat with Rutherford around.

The best part is when he up and quits out of the blue, or gets in slap matches with reporters in an elevator.

 

[Nucker42]

Do it all day if you can resign him. But the Canucks aren’t nearly deep enough to keep pissing away assets.

They have 2 high end players (Lek and Will) and that’s it. So likely this would be a very short window.