Trades you’d try to make in the off season for Detroit.

[Killerjas]

I would trade for more 2nd round picks

 

[NickH8]

I think the biggest need for a trade is some stability on defense without selling the farm. We can get away with Suter and Veleno as our 2 and 3 centers for another year and not harm any development, but we can't continue to have the worst ga/gp in the league. It's bad for morale and development. Seider's back is going to break from carrying this team by year 3 of his career.
Maybe you can make Winnipeg realize they need to rebuild and grab a guy like Nate Schmidt, Vegas needs to make cap room bad, so maybe we can get Martinez or McNabb. I think paired with a Klingberg signing this would do wonders for our team.

 

[emptyNedder]

I think the biggest need for a trade is some stability on defense without selling the farm.

Vegas needs to make cap room bad, so maybe we can get Martinez or McNabb.

Upgrading the D would make a significant difference. According to CapFriendly, VGK is already over the cap for next season, so Martinez will be available.
In LA, Doughty, Durzi, Spence are likely playing on the right side next season and Clarke in 2023. So Roy can be had.

The top 4 of
Martinez/Seider
Edvinsson/Roy
could be really good.

 

[Gniwder]

Upgrading the D would make a significant difference. According to CapFriendly, VGK is already over the cap for next season, so Martinez will be available.
In LA, Doughty, Durzi, Spence are likely playing on the right side next season and Clarke in 2023. So Roy can be had.

The top 4 of
Martinez/Seider
Edvinsson/Roy
could be really good.

Dadonov is the player LVGK is trying to dump. They probably trade him for buriable contracts and send a pick.

Something like Dadonov + 2nd + 3rd for Smith and Erne would work, but it doesn't make the Wings any better for next season, just more draft picks.

 

[14ari13]

So you're telling the Islanders that...

I am not sure. I think he might be a good regular season player and a playoffs choker.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

If we even think about rebuilding the rebuild this franchise is toast for the next 15 years

Fans wont attend games
Sponsors will pull out
Players will not (re)sign here
Prospects will indicate a desire to not be drafted by us

This team does not need to start again and pray this time for better lottery luck.

2 more top 9 draft picks
Another decent impact trade
A few solid free agent signings


That's what we need

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

If we even think about rebuilding the rebuild this franchise is toast for the next 15 years

Fans wont attend games
Sponsors will pull out
Players will not (re)sign here
Prospects will indicate a desire to not be drafted by us

This team does not need to start again and pray this time for better lottery luck.

2 more top 9 draft picks
Another decent impact trade
A few solid free agent signings


That's what we need

A lottery win isn’t a fix all. Look at how often Buffalo and Edmonton f***ed things up with where they picked. You need to do more with your later picks. It took forever for these teams to learn that lesson.

If you get 1 full time player or less out of each draft then your team had a below average to a poor draft. Detroit has had some good drafts the last 3 years, and 2018 may still become a good player and I think there’s a good chance Berggren will as well.

With some luck Detroit gets another 2 to 3 NHLers out of the 22 draft. And these kids probably won’t see NHL ice for 2 years. It’ll be important to give them a good structure to move into.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I sure hope it is, considering there isn't another realistic option.

Raymond was taken 4th. Seider and Edvinsson 6th. And several later round prospects are tracking to be definite NHL contributors. I don't see a reason for the panic button, let alone a total reset.

Landing the "few top 3 picks" you mentioned earlier in your post simply isn't mathematically viable without completely burning it down to force your way into several consecutive years of finishing dead last. Which is about the most surefire way I can imagine to completely destroy whatever development we've seen from Seider and Raymond, let alone any kids that get added going forward.

Yzerman has this roster finally headed in the right direction: learning to win on the backs of players that can and should be part of the next 5-10 years. Is it approaching the finish line? No. But every year we hear how the next draft class is unstoppable...until it's not. And no amount of magic beans drafted 1 or 2 overall is worth hitting the scorched earth button right now.

Hang in there 1-2 more years, and I'll be shocked if the Wings aren't significantly better than they are now, and either challenging for a playoff spot or actually in the postseason.

Elite talent will still be elite if the organization is a dumpster fire. I hold zero stock in the belief that there needs to be some kind of system in place to nurture elite talent once those players enter the NHL. I understand the argument for role players and simply good players, but if Raymond and Seider can't continue to develop their game without players like Larkin and Bert, then they really don't factor into the rebuild and are just spare parts going forward.

I don't really agree with the premise that Yzerman has the roster going into the right direction. (Assuming he believes in your premise that the roster will be in great shape after 1-2 more years.) The Wings have the worst ranked defense in the league. That hasn't really changed much over the past three seasons. They fluctuate between 20-32nd overall. Offense has basically been in that same range. Not dead last like the defense but 20-25th overall.

It should not take 5+ years to know if the roster you have constructed is going to have what it takes to potentially contend for the cup. Or if you want to lower the bar, it should not take 5+ years to figure out if the team can simply be good. The current roster has not given me any reason to believe that we aren't looking at a failed rebuild.

The problem with hanging in there 1-2 more years is you need to give Larkin 8 and Bert 8+ year contracts at the end of next season and realistically it would happen before the end of next season. I just don't see the benefit. You have eaten up a significant portion of cap space on two forwards that clearly cannot elevate their teammates. The Wings roster is full of supporting talent, but nobody to actually steer the ship/play the piano/insert analogy here. It's why they have to play perfect hockey just to look competent, and why they look like a complete dumpster fire when they don't. They have no margin for error since they are so devoid of talent.

What's the theoretical max ceiling on this roster with a couple better but not great players? Drafting 8-10th overall is fine if you are looking for supporting talent/roleplayers to put the finishing touches on your roster. The Wings are still looking for the elite talent to lay down the foundation. Trying to do that with 8-10th overall picks just doesn't sit well with me. There are no guarantees even if they burn it to the ground, but I will always take the approach that gives the Wings the best odds at securing their next star players.

 

[Frk It]

If we even think about rebuilding the rebuild this franchise is toast for the next 15 years

Fans wont attend games
Sponsors will pull out
Players will not (re)sign here
Prospects will indicate a desire to not be drafted by us

This team does not need to start again and pray this time for better lottery luck.

2 more top 9 draft picks
Another decent impact trade
A few solid free agent signings


That's what we need

You will always be able to get sponsors for NHL teams, I’ve seen it first hand in a non-hockey market and for a lousy team.

And are there any cases of a draft pick publicly opposing being drafted by a team? Other than college kids who have some leverage? I mean if people weren’t doing it for the Oilers, I don’t think we have to worry about it.

I think you’re being just a wee bit dramatic. Although points #1 and #3 are total possibilities.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

You will always be able to get sponsors for NHL teams, I’ve seen it first hand in a non-hockey market and for a lousy team.

And are there any cases of a draft pick publicly opposing being drafted by a team? Other than college kids who have some leverage? I mean if people weren’t doing it for the Oilers, I don’t think we have to worry about it.

I think you’re being just a wee bit dramatic. Although points #1 and #3 are total possibilities.

1. Never stated we would get no sponsors, just less. It's pretty evident not all teams get the same level of corporate support across the league.

2. Apart from Lindros, no, I dont believe any publicly requested not to be drafted by a certain team. Privately however I'm less certain. That said lots of players hsve requested trades either before playing for their drafted club or shortly thereafter. Adam Fox being a good recent example.

3. Yes I'm being a bit dramatic but mostly because I believe with a fair degree of certainty rebuilding a rebuild is a franchise killer for a decade or more..

 

[Kenneth C Russell]

At this point I'd like to see him sell Hronek for a used car. I'm not saying he doesn't have good elements to his game. He's good in transition and in the offensive zone, but he struggles against any heavy forecheck and loses battles that he needs to win in order to keep the puck out of the net. Zadina is running out of time too. He's just not going to survive the likes of Berggren and Soderblom. Even Hanas has a good chance of giving him the boot. I know it's too early to give up on him but if he were a UFA today, he wouldn't be signed.

 

[jkutswings]

It should not take 5+ years to know if the roster you have constructed is going to have what it takes to potentially contend for the cup.

For the last five franchises to win a Cup, here are the number of years after their best* players were drafted that they won (only using the first championship for those players who won multiples):

Tampa Bay: Kucherov 9, Stamkos 12, Point 6, Hedman 11, Vasilevskiy 8

St Louis: O'Reilly 10, Tarasenko 9, Pietrangelo 11, Binnington 8

Washington: Ovechkin 14, Kuznetsov 8, Backstrom 12, Carlson 10, Oshie 13, Holtby 10

Pittsburgh: Crosby 4, Letang 4, Kessel 10, Malkin 5, Murray 4

Chicago: Toews 4, Kane 3, Hossa 13, Keith 8, Saad 4, Crawford 12


That's an average of 8.5 years after getting drafted to win, which probably puts "contention" at 4-6 years on average. So I'd say that most of the time, it does take quite awhile to get your ducks in a row, even for elite talent.

*Best meaning most impactful during that season. (For example, Corey Crawford was on the 2010 Blackhawks, but barely played, so I'm counting the 2015 Cup as his "first" as an impactful player.)

 

[WingedWheel1987]

But those rosters all had elite talent. The Wings don't have a single elite player/insert adjective here on the roster. So, looking at those rosters from the teams you mentioned and then trying to extrapolate where the Wings are in terms of their rebuild just doesn't make much sense.

Is the goal to build some maybe they get lucky and win a single playoff series in 3-4 years? Cause that's what I view as the absolute ceiling of this roster if you add 1-2 more good but not great players either via draft or trade.

I'll take 50 more years of missing the playoffs over that.

Whether you have elite talent or not, rebuilds cannot take 8+ years before they can finish. Not in today's NHL. You need to take advantage of your elite players still on their ELC'/bridge deals to maximize their value and use the extra money to give the team some quality depth. Although the Wings don't really have to worry about that problem since they still haven't drafted the real talent that will end this rebuild.

I don't see this roster making the playoffs the next two years even if they keep Larkin and Bert. The team is just bad at everything. Whether its puck possession, generating a consistent forecheck, making high IQ plays on a consistent basis, scoring goals, not giving up goals, power play, penalty kill. You really think 1-2 more years of drafting in the 8-10 range is going to meaningfully address those problems? I certainly don't.

 

[Geezer WC]

I would 100% trade Bert and Larkin. Vrana too since his value will plummet once those two are gone.

That seems a bit negative. Larkin is 25 and doing fine.

 

[jkutswings]

Is the goal to build some maybe they get lucky and win a single playoff series in 3-4 years? Cause that's what I view as the absolute ceiling of this roster if you add 1-2 more good but not great players either via draft or trade.

But I'm not saying, add 1-2 players over the next 1-2 years. I'm saying add 5-6 players over the next 2 years. Edvinsson and possibly additional draft picks, plus a couple free agents or trades each year. And you keep improving from there.

I'll take 50 more years of missing the playoffs over that.

Agree to disagree. I think Yzerman can and will find a way to add another legit center, 2-3 solid defensemen, and enough finishing pieces to eventually get the roster back to regularly making the playoffs and regularly winning at least a series or two. Beyond that, we'll see.

 

[14ari13]

For the last five franchises to win a Cup, here are the number of years after their best* players were drafted that they won (only using the first championship for those players who won multiples):

Tampa Bay: Kucherov 9, Stamkos 12, Point 6, Hedman 11, Vasilevskiy 8

St Louis: O'Reilly 10, Tarasenko 9, Pietrangelo 11, Binnington 8

Washington: Ovechkin 14, Kuznetsov 8, Backstrom 12, Carlson 10, Oshie 13, Holtby 10

Pittsburgh: Crosby 4, Letang 4, Kessel 10, Malkin 5, Murray 4

Chicago: Toews 4, Kane 3, Hossa 13, Keith 8, Saad 4, Crawford 12


That's an average of 8.5 years after getting drafted to win, which probably puts "contention" at 4-6 years on average. So I'd say that most of the time, it does take quite awhile to get your ducks in a row, even for elite talent.

*Best meaning most impactful during that season. (For example, Corey Crawford was on the 2010 Blackhawks, but barely played, so I'm counting the 2015 Cup as his "first" as an impactful player.)

Are our core players as good as the players you mentioned.

 

[jkutswings]

Are our core players as good as the players you mentioned.

Do we have a Crosby / Ovechkin / <insert generational player here> ? No. But I absolutely could see reaching a Boston or St Louis scenario, using some combination of Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Bertuzzi, and Vrana (either as core players or as traded for core players), while supplementing from there.

Yzerman found a future Norris winner at 6th. Heck, Holland found a center currently having a PPG season at 15th. The bad contracts phase is essentially over, good kids are being added, and I fully expect this team to turn the corner with another year or two of building (and then continued refinement).

 

[14ari13]

Do we have a Crosby / Ovechkin / <insert generational player here> ? No. But I absolutely could see reaching a Boston or St Louis scenario, using some combination of Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Bertuzzi, and Vrana (either as core players or as traded for core players), while supplementing from there.

Yzerman found a future Norris winner at 6th. Heck, Holland found a center currently having a PPG season at 15th. The bad contracts phase is essentially over, good kids are being added, and I fully expect this team to turn the corner with another year or two of building (and then continued refinement).

We don't have generational players, at least not that I know of.

But we got Lidstrom in round 4, definitely a generational player, though nobody knew he would turn out that great.
Datsyuk and Zetterberg round 6 and 7, and they gave us the cup, almost 2.
Yzerman was 4th OA, but he certainly had a much better career than the 3 picked up ahead of him.

Larkin 15 OA is doing better than what I expected him.
Bertuzzi round 2 is definitely doing better than anyone would expect him to do.
Vrana has maybe earned to join the core.

I am not sure about Seider and Raymond. They definitely look like core.

The question is how good of the core those 5 players are? And do we have elite talent in Edvidson, Soderblom....?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Are our core players as good as the players you mentioned.

Really tough to say to be fair

Most likely no

Then again i can see Seider being a franchise dman by his 4th full season and Raymond and Edvinsson being elite players at the same time as well.

We need to continue to draft alot and hit on more then the average every draft for the next 3.

We will be drafting top ten in 22 and 23 as well.

SY needs to make another significant trade utilizing Bert and land a high quality free agent not this year but next summer and in 2024.

 

[WF19]

Lidstrom, Datsyuk,Zetterberg, etc weren't labelled as elite or generational when they entered they league either. Take Franzen for instance, the guy came out of nowhere to be an absolute beast in the playoffs but just couldn't stay healthy. Or Homer the leagues biggest pest infront of the net but also the best. I"ll still argue that we are doing just fine as far as the rebuild goes. Larkin,Bert,Raymond,Seider is a good enough core to start with. Add in Vrana, see how Berggren does, Edvisson and lets not forget we have the most money to spend in the off season if there is a fish out there..

 

[14ari13]

Do we have a Crosby / Ovechkin / <insert generational player here> ? No. But I absolutely could see reaching a Boston or St Louis scenario, using some combination of Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Bertuzzi, and Vrana (either as core players or as traded for core players), while supplementing from there.

Yzerman found a future Norris winner at 6th. Heck, Holland found a center currently having a PPG season at 15th. The bad contracts phase is essentially over, good kids are being added, and I fully expect this team to turn the corner with another year or two of building (and then continued refinement).

Really tough to say to be fair

Most likely no

Then again i can see Seider being a franchise dman by his 4th full season and Raymond and Edvinsson being elite players at the same time as well.

We need to continue to draft alot and hit on more then the average every draft for the next 3.

We will be drafting top ten in 22 and 23 as well.

SY needs to make another significant trade utilizing Bert and land a high quality free agent not this year but next summer and in 2024.

That is therefore I think it is difficult to build on when don't know yet what kind of core we have.
I don't know if the posters here would add Vrana to our core players, but he has definitely deserved to be considered. I am not saying he is, for all we know this might be a hot streak.

I think Yzerman has 2 issues
1. Will Larkin, Bertuzzi and Vrana be too old when the team is ready to compete.
2. Goaltending. Will Yzerman go with Nedeljkovic as clear #1 or will he try to find one.

 

[Gniwder]

That is therefore I think it is difficult to build on when don't know yet what kind of core we have.
I don't know if the posters here would add Vrana to our core players, but he has definitely deserved to be considered. I am not saying he is, for all we know this might be a hot streak.

I think Yzerman has 2 issues
1. Will Larkin, Bertuzzi and Vrana be too old when the team is ready to compete.
2. Goaltending. Will Yzerman go with Nedeljkovic as clear #1 or will he try to find one.

I think he goes halfway on the goalie situation, signs someone like Holtby and split starts.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I think he goes halfway on the goalie situation, signs someone like Holtby and split starts.

I'd hope for Holtby or Campbell. This team really needs someone to take pressure off Ned when he's having a bad stretch, and Greiss ain't it.

What about trading for someone like Ilya Sorokin? NYI are hurting for cap and he might be the odd man out there.

 

[Gniwder]

I'd hope for Holtby or Campbell. This team really needs someone to take pressure off Ned when he's having a bad stretch, and Greiss ain't it.

What about trading for someone like Ilya Sorokin? NYI are hurting for cap and he might be the odd man out there.

How do ya figure they're gonna dump their good goalie? If any goalie gets traded I'm assuming it's Varlamov, but he's got a 16 team NTC.

I said Holtby because I think some team (not sure which) takes a flyer on Campbell and he gets overpaid. I think Holtby would sign for less than $3M, which is what I'm guessing is Stevie's price range. Campbell is probably the better goaltender especially for the Wings, Holtby tends to get frustrated so I'm not sure he can handle the Wings' D.

 

[14ari13]

I think he goes halfway on the goalie situation, signs someone like Holtby and split starts.

Nedeljkovic impressed me with his win vs Ruins. I didn't think he had it in him. If he can put another 2 outings like that rest of the season, I think we could trust him for another season.