Trade Proposals and Free Agency Thread - 2017 Edition

[SprDaVE]

The problem with the bottom pairing is Babcock doesn't trust them defensively. How often does a coach not trust either of his bottom pair Dmen to PK? If slashing penalties continue we are going to burn out Hainsey/Zait by having them on the PK 6+ min. per game. I don't even really care about getting a big improvement over Carrick, just need someone a little more reliable that can PK, those aren't that tough to find.

Our top 4 isn't getting caved in so far this year, the Rielly pairing is dominating possession at this point, and Gardiner will bounce back after a couple tough games.

What will it cost to get one of those guys that you mentioned? And will we be moving out guys (Kappy) that we need to fill holes in our lineup once JVR/Bozak/Leo walk in the summer? Because those guys are definitely walking in the summer if you bring in another Top 4 dman.

Are you prepared to move a top prospect plus a 1st for one of them?

I'll take the marginal upgrade to the bottom pairing personally.

If that defenseman is really good, of course I would. I've advocated to go hard after Tanev and/or Muzzin for a long long time. I'd much rather spend assets to go after someone that can push down Hainsey and Zaitsev's minutes than to push down Carrick and his softer minutes, where he has been excelling anyway. Using Kapanen as our main trade chip to get a top 2/4 defenseman would be fine considering we have a crap ton of winger prospects waiting for their chance. I've been told a gazillion times around here that wingers are so easy to find anyway.

I think you are completely underrating Carrick and Borgman/Rosen in their abilities. The grass isn't greener on the other side here. Whoever you want replacing them probably won't do any better despite what you might think. We've had a revolving door of bottom pairing quality defenders over the years.

What kind of "marginal" upgrade are you thinking about, the kind of players you think could be had for cheaper and would be better than Carrick, Borgman and Rosen? Are we thinking Luke Schenn here?

If you want PK specialist in your defensive pairings, you might as well just recall Marincin and send down Rosen again.

 

[BlueForever75]

How are people down on Polak? This guy is a warrior and exactly what we need on our defense to pair with Borgman and/or Carrick.

Our hopes went down the drain last playoffs when he was hurt and Marpylon took over. He adds toughness, and grit to a D which is missing it. He can kill penalties, block shots, clears front of the net, and hits hard. You put him on the 3rd pairing and let him come in when situations present itself. Its a cheap option, knows system and players. No brainer.

 

[showtime8]

Yep you guys read my mind

I was thinking we move the puck to well and need a gigantic plug on the backend to teach everyone how to ice the puck every second shift

Any other non puck moving plug you guys interested in?

Do you actually think that the 3rd pair moves the puck well?

League wide, teams are averaging 12 minutes of penalties per game (Toronto is just below 10). So you're looking to fill up that time with players that can actually kill penalties. My point still stands that you need a guy like Roman Polak. Polak averaged 3 minutes a game last season and if penalties look to be on the rise, maybe the Leafs should be pro-active instead of reactive in terms of managing minutes. Because as much as I like Ron Hainsey and think he's done an admirable job on the pairing with Rielly, should we really expect that for another 70+ games?

 

[SprDaVE]

Oh god... not the "sign Polak!" posts again.

"Clears the front of the net" is a term that I cannot take seriously.

 

[thewave]

How are people down on Polak? This guy is a warrior and exactly what we need on our defense to pair with Borgman and/or Carrick.

Our hopes went down the drain last playoffs when he was hurt and Marpylon took over. He adds toughness, and grit to a D which is missing it. He can kill penalties, block shots, clears front of the net, and hits hard. You put him on the 3rd pairing and let him come in when situations present itself. Its a cheap option, knows system and players. No brainer.

No roster spots. Do you send a Swede home?? Its a toughy

 

[BlueForever75]

Oh god... not the "sign Polak!" posts again.

Why not everyone is crying our defense is soft, and lacks D. Polak was just that in our D last season. So why do we need to at this time go out and spend assets outside our organization if things are working. When we can attempt to see how things go with him in there? Babcock does have the ability and reputation to making the best out of peoples strengths and using it to the teams advantage which in turn makes the player better.

Why not Polak and if it doesn't work out it doesn't! Cant be any worse then we are now defensively.

 

[thewave]

Oh god... not the "sign Polak!" posts again.

"Clears the front of the net" is a term that I cannot take seriously.

I understand your position. Do you apply it equally to Martin?

 

[SprDaVE]

Why not everyone is crying our defense is soft, and lacks D. Polak was just that in our D last season. So why do we need to at this time go out and spend assets outside our organization if things are working. When we can attempt to see how things go with him in there? Babcock does have the ability and reputation to making the best out of peoples strengths and using it to the teams advantage which in turn makes the player better.

Why not Polak and if it doesn't work out it doesn't! Cant be any worse then we are now defensively.

Because he's not good. Toughness doesn't make a good defenseman. Our "soft" defense isn't a problem.

He cannot pass, everytime he's on the ice our team gets pummelled in shots against. He doesn't actually clear anybody in front of the net either. He's not good defensively.

The Leafs don't have the roster space for Polak and definitely aren't in need of questionable defenseman that can throw a hard check.

 

[SprDaVE]

I understand your position. Do you apply it equally to Martin?

Apply what to Martin?

 

[Warden of the North]

Actually it can be worse. Have you noticed what were doing now as opposed to last year when were trying to hold the lead late in the game? Carrying the puck out and scoring empty net goals. Polak would ice the puck EVERY SINGLE TIME last season inevitably resulting in a goal against. I think we have scored almost as many ENG in 7 games as we did in 82 last year, and we have not yet allowed a tieing goal on 5v6.

Why not everyone is crying our defense is soft, and lacks D. Polak was just that in our D last season. So why do we need to at this time go out and spend assets outside our organization if things are working. When we can attempt to see how things go with him in there? Babcock does have the ability and reputation to making the best out of peoples strengths and using it to the teams advantage which in turn makes the player better.

Why not Polak and if it doesn't work out it doesn't! Cant be any worse then we are now defensively.

 

[4thline]

If the Sharks season goes down the tubes the obvious move is to give them the 1st+ to get Braun@ 50%. Younger, better more mobile Hainsey signed for this season + 2 more at 1.9mil would be huge

 

[Cor]

Yeah, no thanks to Polak. Borgman brings that physicality on the third pair. We just have no need for Polak anymore.

I can see the Leafs making a move at some point to get another d-man, to either replace Carrick, or push Hainsey down to the third pairing.

In fact, if we could go into the playoffs with Borgman-Hainsey as our third pairing, we'd be looking great

 

[Nithoniniel]

I think Polak gets a bit too much crap at times. His shot metrics aren't good, but when he and Hunwick got to play actual bottom pairing minutes they put up some very nice expected goals differentials.

With that said, not much interest in resigning him.

 

[BlueForever75]

Because he's not good. Toughness doesn't make a good defenseman. Our "soft" defense isn't a problem.

He cannot pass, everytime he's on the ice our team gets pummelled in shots against. He doesn't actually clear anybody in front of the net either. He's not good defensively.

The Leafs don't have the roster space for Polak and definitely aren't in need of questionable defenseman that can throw a hard check.

There is space. Rosen can be sent down with no issues to play every game with the Marlies and Polak can be the swing dman. As Rosen, Carrick alternate Polak can too.

 

[Barilko14]

If that defenseman is really good, of course I would. I've advocated to go hard after Tanev and/or Muzzin for a long long time. I'd much rather spend assets to go after someone that can push down Hainsey and Zaitsev's minutes than to push down Carrick and his softer minutes, where he has been excelling anyway. Using Kapanen as our main trade chip to get a top 2/4 defenseman would be fine considering we have a crap ton of winger prospects waiting for their chance. I've been told a gazillion times around here that wingers are so easy to find anyway.

I think you are completely underrating Carrick and Borgman/Rosen in their abilities. The grass isn't greener on the other side here. Whoever you want replacing them probably won't do any better despite what you might think. We've had a revolving door of bottom pairing quality defenders over the years.

What kind of "marginal" upgrade are you thinking about, the kind of players you think could be had for cheaper and would be better than Carrick, Borgman and Rosen? Are we thinking Luke Schenn here?

If you want PK specialist in your defensive pairings, you might as well just recall Marincin and send down Rosen again.

I wouldn't be willing to trade Kappy + to upgrade our Top 4 right now. I think with Dermott and Liljegren on the way we are going to have 5 top 4 dmen soon on the roster. So I guess that point will be an agree to disagree scenario.

I'm not really underrating the 3rd pairing, I just do not think it's likely that Babcock only has 3 guys he likes on the PK for the rest of the year. It's more usage than commenting on their play. If Borgman can take the ball and run with it as far as being an effective PKer than I'd be thrilled.

Some guys that may become available at some point if their teams are struggling - Hickey, Nemeth, Dillon, McNabb or Holden. All have been relied upon to kill penalties either this season or last, although Dillon's contract could be an issue at some point. Most options as always are LD, so it may be another prospect as the main piece going the other way, with Carrick staying on the 3rd pair, and Borgman/Rosen demoted.

I would also check out what Vancouver would want for Edler, if the price wasn't too bad, he may have enough left in the tank to help us for a year or 2. Probably get a boost from joining an actual competitive team again.

 

[BlueForever75]

I think Polak gets a bit too much crap at times. His shot metrics aren't good, but when he and Hunwick got to play actual bottom pairing minutes they put up some very nice expected goals differentials.

With that said, not much interest in resigning him.

Only reason I am saying to give him a chance is that he wouldn't be any worse than what the bottom pairing is providing already. There is potential that like you said, if hes played bottom pairing minutes he can add value to our team. Even if it is slightly better its still better then now.

 

[SprDaVE]

There is space. Rosen can be sent down with no issues to play every game with the Marlies and Polak can be the swing dman. As Rosen, Carrick alternate Polak can too.

If they waived Marincin to call up Rosen, while Polak was waiting for a contract, chances are they don't value Polak at all.

If he was as good as you think he is, he wouldn't have any issues finding a contract.

 

[BlueForever75]

Actually it can be worse. Have you noticed what were doing now as opposed to last year when were trying to hold the lead late in the game? Carrying the puck out and scoring empty net goals. Polak would ice the puck EVERY SINGLE TIME last season inevitably resulting in a goal against. I think we have scored almost as many ENG in 7 games as we did in 82 last year, and we have not yet allowed a tieing goal on 5v6.

So we are going to base Polak getting signed on how many empty net goals we scored?? I thought it was based on how many goals we prevent?

Polak was incredible on PK and limited 3 pairing minutes. If we can put a player like Marner on the 4th line and give him PP time because it benefits the team. Why cant we have a specialty player like Polak for 3 pairing minutes and the PK.

If your so worried about holding a lead and empty netters in the final minutes of a game. Your 3 pairing shouldn't be playing anyways, that's an issue in itself. As far as I have noticed, Rosen or Carrick or Borgman haven't been on the ice in the final minute of the game. So that point is moot.

 

[BlueForever75]

If they waived Marincin to call up Rosen, while Polak was waiting for a contract, chances are they don't value Polak at all.

If he was as good as you think he is, he wouldn't have any issues finding a contract.

Or if we paid attention, Polak didn't play in any pre-season games because he was still recovering from his nasty injury. And the team was giving him an opportunity to heal up and get to speed before offering him something?

In the end, Polak doesn't provide you anything less then Rosen or Carrick. He adds more defense then both of those players. And gives us an element in our D core that we miss, which is toughness and grit. Other then Hainsey we are missing that dearly.

 

[4thline]

I can see the Leafs making a move at some point to get another d-man, to either replace Carrick, or push Hainsey down to the third pairing.

In fact, if we could go into the playoffs with Borgman-Hainsey as our third pairing, we'd be looking great

I really like the idea of a Rielly-Braun pairing,

then a when healthy rotation of Borgman/Carrick/Hainsey, with Hainsey playing in ~65 more games, Borgman/Carrick getting ~40+ each

 

[BlueForever75]

I really like the idea of a Rielly-Braun pairing,

then a when healthy rotation of Borgman/Carrick/Hainsey, with Hainsey playing in ~65 more games, Borgman/Carrick getting ~40+ each

Hainsey has done nothing to warrant being used as a rotating part. The guy has been surprisingly good and steady.

 

[4thline]

Hainsey has done nothing to warrant being used as a rotating part. The guy has been surprisingly good and steady.

Not really that surprising actually, he's a great 4. If you look at the numbers that plan has him sitting 10 of the remaining 75 games. Not so much "used as rotating part" as "protecting a 36 year old asset through rest"

 

[SprDaVE]

Or if we paid attention, Polak didn't play in any pre-season games because he was still recovering from his nasty injury. And the team was giving him an opportunity to heal up and get to speed before offering him something?

In the end, Polak doesn't provide you anything less then Rosen or Carrick. He adds more defense then both of those players. And gives us an element in our D core that we miss, which is toughness and grit. Other then Hainsey we are missing that dearly.

He did play 1 game in pre-season. And he was terrible.

Polak provides nothing we don't have and he's just not good overall. What we need is quality defender(s), not just toughness and grit. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this and move on.

I hope Polak can find a home but his place here is definitely not one I see making any sort of sense.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I think that it is very important to think about that 3rd line centre role going forward.

The reason that the Leafs have been so successful this year is that their depth has been there. They are consistently getting contributions from 3 lines. Most teams rely on a 1 line and the good teams rely on 2 lines. The difference with the Maple Leafs is that their 3rd line is putting up production.

Whether you believe that Bozak is the 3rd line or Kadri is the 3rd line, here's the breakdown of each line:

Bozak line - 16 points (with Brown or Marner), 8 goals w/Brown, 6 goals w/Marner
Kadri line - 16 points , 8 goals

If you look around the league, how many other teams 3rd line can compare with that?

The Bozak line does produce well but some of that is offset by them being given offensive zone starts, not being used against hard matchups, lots of PP time, etc. and still looking weak defensively. Bozak has 3 out of his 5 points from the PP, JVR has 4 out of 7 points from the PP.

3rd line center role is important but there won't be money left over to pay a guy like Bozak after more important pieces get paid.

If Nylander isn't shifted over to center, it's likely we go for a more traditional 3rd line center who can be used to match up against top lines and kill penalties who will be more affordable. Having this type of center would free up time for a guy like Kadri to get easier 5 on 5 minutes. Most of our guys can also eat up a few more minutes a game. For example Matthews, Nylander, Marner, etc. all are averaging less than 2:30 in PP time when top PP guys are usually getting 3:00 or more.

Bozak is likely to be replaced by a guy like Ellers, Cogliano, etc. and the drop off in Overall Team Play won't be dramatic.

 

[Albi34]

Could the leafs realistically sign Tavares as a FA if moved some salaries like Bozak/JVR/Komorov/Martin ? replace them with kaps/leivo etc