Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread (Sir John Tavares.. please save us edition)

[DAChampion]

Were you guys also ragging on Kovalev all the time too?

Yes, even though Kovalev averaged 65 points a season with the Habs, including a year where he had vertigo, people said he only showed up to one game in 10.

Can you imagine if Kovalev had shown up to every game? He would have averaged 650 points a season.

 

[BLONG7]

JT is probably going nowhere...but the Isles do need to get their act together...once they do he stays...........

If they don't then he has one year left, and controls his destiny...he will give them a list of places to play, and having Price in our lineup helps.

JT as made alot of money already in his young career, he will be looking for a club with more stability than the Isles, and a club that is in the playoffs with a shot at the Cup.

Are we that team?

Just curious here, I know JT is a real star talent, but why can't he get the Isles to the promise land?

There will be a TON of speculation on this subject, thanks to guys like Dreger, as we head to the draft floor in late June.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Yes, even though Kovalev averaged 65 points a season with the Habs, including a year where he had vertigo, people said he only showed up to one game in 10.

Can you imagine if Kovalev had shown up to every game? He would have averaged 650 points a season.

This fanbase wouldn't know talent if it showed up and scored 30 goals for them.

Tavares would be criticised too - too slow, not physical enough, too expensive...

Kovelev was amazing for it, a truly special player. The nights that he didn't produce were mostly the nights that the team didn't help him and he felt like he had to do it all himself. Subban gets the same criticism. Neither are perfect players but the heat on them at times was ridiculous. Same is happening with Bustchenyubust.

 

[waffledave]

I'm waiting for the inevitable posts calling Tavares an overrated, trash player, terrible defensively (you know he's -28 over his whole career!! Garbage!!!) and how we shouldn't even give up Sergachev for him one on one.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Waite was a good hire.

Though the 20/20 hindsight brigade may deny it now, this forum was once severely divided on Price. From the time Price got the Habs eliminated in the 2008 playoffs against Philadelphia, through to his collapse in 2013 where he posted a .905 save percentage, there were many posters unsure about him and arguing that Timmins wasted the pick. I remember a thread "When is the last time Price *stole* a game???" or something like that, posters thought Price was overrated right up until the time he emerged.

Our young players are always on thin ice here. Look at how many fans are blaming Galchenyuk for the recent troubles.

I agree and Price was very inconsistent in his first few years for sure! It's Montreal... fans are passionate and want to win. Our prospects never can get good and live up to potential fast enough

 

[angry pirate]

Well Whiskey, if they can find a good centre without giving him up, then by all means. But he'd probably have to be part of the package. I could see him as a 2nd line centre, sure, they are allowed to have those flaws as long as there's a legit 1st liner and someone like Danault on the 3rd. I just don't think it's realistic. Otherwise you're making him a winger, Chuck can possibly slide into 2nd line LW. But the salary cap comes into play and Lehkonen will be a better bargain and Byron doesn't deserve 4th line duties.

I absolutely agree with this. As Galchenyuk stands now, I could see him as a 2nd line center... Or a 1B if you will. He'll still lead the team in points in that role, but he won't have the defensive expectations that come with 18+ minutes a game. That's not to say that Galchenyuk can't become that complete center we want though.

Ideally he's being paired with Prime Plekanec type. A 2-way center who didn't drag lines down offensively. Which ironically Plekanec really could have used a Galchenyuk following him all these years. Maybe Danault can fill that role but at present he's better suited as a fill in and let him be our 3C and primary penalty killer.

Obviously if we could add JT our 2nd line center would be way less important. Obviously a 1 - 2 punch of JT and Galchenyuk would be disgusting but as said we are likely losing AG to get Tavares. Do I move Galchenyuk for JT if the offer presents itself of course. But the line for JT will be around the block.

I feel like winning second place in the Tavares sweepstakes and coming out with Nugent Hopkins or Duchene and keeping Galchenyuk will make us just as dangerous. Teams win with depth.

Pacioretty - RNH/Duchene - Gallagher
Lehkonen - Galchenyuk - Radulov
Byron - Danault - Shaw

That's a competitive top nine that can withstand injuries in my opinion.

 

[DAChampion]

I'm waiting for the inevitable posts calling Tavares an overrated, trash player, terrible defensively (you know he's -28 over his whole career!! Garbage!!!) and how we shouldn't even give up Sergachev for him one on one.

Whether or not he's overrated will depend on the trade package.

Personally, I don't give up the moon for a one-year rental of JT.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ha ha. Hee hee. Not a chance unless Habs go 6 in the cup final because of price. It's playoffs man. That's when goalies step up or not.

No. it's standing on your head and winning a cup. That's what great goalies do.

Price gets close to $9M and you are aloud to not like it. But there are a lot of things in life I don't like either. I also don't like how some are criticizing Price. If you want him to leave, keep at it and your wish might come true.

Great goalies play on great TEAMS. Habs are a good team with a few missing pieces before they are considered a great team. That doesn't have to be anybodies fault either... I'm happy as long as the team continues to improve the talent in the top 6 and address the top 2 centers in the next year or two. That's when guys like Sergachev, Juulsen, Scherbak, Hudon start to make an impact. While the aging veteran core (Price, Weber, Patch, Radulov) head towards their mid 30's. That is our window.

 

[DAChampion]

I'll judge Price on his performance in these playoffs for sure, but not on the Habs performance.

Price cannot score goals, and thus he cannot carry the Habs into the finals. The absolute best we can expect of Price is a GAA of 2.00, and that might not be good enough to make the second round let alone the finals.

The team is healthy, but they are having a hard time scoring goals.

It reminds me of the sries against the Rangers in 2014. The Habs couldn't score on the Rangers to save their lives (except for a blowout game), they could barely enter the zone. Yet people assumed that if not for the Kreider hit, the Habs would have beaten the rangers. It was simply not fair to assume that the Habs would have won the games 1-0 with Price.

I miss Subban, he was the ignition of the Habs offense for most of the past few years.

 

[HabsTown]

My gut is Price will sign just above Subban's contract and will become the biggest contract in Habs history to symbolize his importance to the franchise (probably what management wants to do with him too, show him he's the best)

8Y-9.5M is what I expect.

As for Tavares, providing an extension is in work:



Alex Galchenyuk
Mikhaïl Sergachev
Brendan Gallagher
1st 2017/2018
2nd 2017



John Tavares
Josh Bailey


Pacioretty-Tavares-Bailey
Hudon-Plekanec-Radulov
Byron-Danault-Shaw
Lehkonen-McCarron-Mitchell

Emelin taken by Vegas.
Possible swap between Byron-Lehkonen-Hudon // Plekanec & Danault

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Let's see if he stops 35 shots a game through three rounds and carries the Habs to the cup final.

Otherwise 6 mill 8 years will do. Or trade. This is Price prove it and play healthy in PO year. And get to the cup final. He's never done it. Not once. And lesser goalies have. With better teams though. But if price wants 8 mill a year than cup final is the test.

Cup final or take 6 a year.

DA I've already predicted a huge Price debate on this board next year.

No cup final due to Price being a playoff monster this year. No huge money. This is my position.

We won't even make it to the 2nd round (hope i'm wrong)... Have you seen that offense ? How is Price supposed to win games, when we can't score goals ?

In my opinion, we should just rebuild/retool and trade Weber, Price, Pacio...

 

[DAChampion]

I hadn't noticed, but Josh Bailey actually became a good player.

 

[habergeon]

I'm waiting for the inevitable posts calling Tavares an overrated, trash player, terrible defensively (you know he's -28 over his whole career!! Garbage!!!) and how we shouldn't even give up Sergachev for him one on one.

Even on this board, I think you're in for a wait.

Tavares is one of the top players on the planet...period. I'd love to see someone try to argue otherwise.

 

[DAChampion]

Even on this board, I think you're in for a wait.

Tavares is one of the top players on the planet...period. I'd love to see someone try to argue otherwise.

What's his rank among centres in the NHL?

Crosby
Malkin
McDavid
Tavares / Backstrom
Matthews / Toews / Stamkos

Looks to me like Tavares is the 4th best centre in the NHL.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I almost jumped at your offer and then saw Sergachev...... My cautious nature says no.

You have to give to get. Sergachev would have to be included in any trade for Johnny T. When he's on his game, Tavares is a top five center in the NHL. You have to pay for that.

Again though, we have to have permission to talk to Tavares about a deal first. We can't give that up and have him leave.

I'm hesitant to give Radulov big money for 7 or 8 years. I'd rather pay a bit more on a 2 or 3 year contract and I think Radulov would rather take the free agency route instead.

I'd love to get Tavares and if that means losing Galchenyuk, so be it. But Tavares would have to agree to some sort of arrangement first before I'd trade Galchenyuk.

It becomes a lateral move that way. Doesn't make sense. There's even a possibilty that we lose that trade because Chuck's best years are ahead of him.

It has to be a net gain for us in the short term and the Isles get a chance to win long term. Sideways moves aren't things we should be looking for.

My gut is Price will sign just above Subban's contract and will become the biggest contract in Habs history to symbolize his importance to the franchise (probably what management wants to do with him too, show him he's the best)

8Y-9.5M is what I expect.

I hope that's not the case.

As for mgmt, it's not what they should want. The way I'd spin it for him is in the following way.

1. I give him max term. That means he's 38 when his deal is over. Some of those years are going to be outside his prime and I don't want to be paying 9 or 10 mil for those seasons.

2. As he gets older, he may want flexibility. Look what happened with Luongo with his absurd deal. He couldn't go anywhere because of his contract.

3. Unlike other players (Max, Subban) Price wasn't screwed over as a younger player. I'd hope he'd be willing to take somewhat of a discount. Subban was trying to make up for lost years and Max will try to do the same. Price doesn't have lost years to make up for. His contract at the time was a good one for him.

4. We're trying to build a cup winning team. The more he can help us on the flexibility side the easier it will be.

8 x 7.5 mil is what I'd shoot for, front end loaded so he makes his money earlier.

Something like: (Years 1-8) 10, 10, 10, 8, 8, 6, 6, 2

 

[habergeon]

What's his rank among centre in the NHL?

Crosby
Malkin
McDavid
Tavares / Backstrom
Matthews / Toews / Stamkos

Looks to me like Tavares is the 4th best centre in the NHL.

So? I'm missing your point.

First, I'm saying he's one of the best players on the planet. Second, even if I was using center as a qualifier your sorta proving my point.

If you want to get into semantics about his position among centers, that's fine as you and I both know that no one is going to argue he is ahead of Crosby, Malkin or McDavid. So what? What are you trying to say?

I'm curious about your point? I'm not going to assume what you meant, so let's hear it.

 

[DAChampion]

So? I'm missing your point.

First, I'm saying he's one of the best players on the planet. Second, even if I was using center as a qualifier your sorta proving my point.

If you want to get into semantics about his position among centers, that's fine as you and I both know that no one is going to argue he is ahead of Crosby, Malkin or McDavid. So what? What are you trying to say?

I'm curious about your point? I'm not going to assume what you meant, so let's hear it.

I'm trying to have a discussion of his value, to converge on an assessment.

Don't be needlessly belligerent.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

What's his rank among centres in the NHL?

Crosby
Malkin
McDavid
Tavares / Backstrom
Matthews / Toews / Stamkos

Looks to me like Tavares is the 4th best centre in the NHL.

That's where I'd put him.

 

[DAChampion]

If I'm John Tavares, I go to whichever contender is paying the most money.

He hasn't made a lot of money thus far. He's been underpaid by the Islanders, average salary on his contract runs at a modest 5.5 million a year.

Now's the time for him to earn bank. If he can break 10 million a year, he should.

 

[habergeon]

I'm trying to have a discussion of his value, to converge on an assessment.

Don't be needlessly belligerent.

I wasn't trying to come across as belligerent, and I'm sorry if I did.

The way I read it is you seemed to challenge the notion of Tavares talent / place(which made me curious), but I can also see how it could be taken to actually support it.

My reading comprehension isn’t always on its game sometimes, so I’ll wear that one and next beer is on me.

 

[DAChampion]

I wasn't trying to come across as belligerent, and I'm sorry if I did.

The way I read it is you seemed to challenge the notion of Tavares talent / place(which made me curious), but I can also see how it could be taken to actually support it.

My reading comprehension isn’t always on its game sometimes, so I’ll wear that one and next beer is on me.

This forum can have that effect on people.

 

[Riggins]

I'd go all in on Tavares for sure even if he is only signed one more year. Galchenyuk, Beaulieu and a 1st? Done in a heartbeat. You aren't getting him without giving up Chucky +++.

If Tavares bolts in free agency after one year so be it. Wake me up in 5-10 years after a lengthy rebuild.

 

[Deebs]

After Johnny T signs a 8 year-$72M extension, then we trade for him

 

[Uncle Gary]

The point is to add Tavares in ADDITION to the forwards we already have. Tavares isn't going to help that much if Pacioretty or Galchenyuk are going the other way.

 

[Deebs]

The point is to add Tavares in ADDITION to the forwards we already have. Tavares isn't going to help that much if Pacioretty or Galchenyuk are going the other way.

Not sure we have the pieces to make that happen. What do you suggest?