Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread (Sir John Tavares.. please save us edition)

[bsl]

I used to think he would leave but we have a decent coach now. Price won at every level if he like it here and he think he can do win here he might sign at a hometown discount.

He ain't winning **** all with chuck and danault as the first 2 centres. Not in this conference.

Bergy ****ed up at not addressing the c position 4 years ago. Too late buddies.

 

[TT1]

That move doesn't really help us. Tavares would be awesome but it's really awesome if we get him and keep Chuck.

I'd much rather empty the prospect group and a couple of first rounders.

1st rounder
2nd rounder
Sergachev
MaCcarron
Sherbek
Plekanec

We basically drain the prospect pool and go all in on Tavares but we also offset Plek's salary and suddenly an area of weakness for years becomes an area of strength at the center position. Imagine a one two punch of Tavares and Chuck there. Suddenly our goal scoring just got a whole lot better.

You're not gonna be able to sign Tavares, Pacioretty, Radulov, Price AND Galchenyuk. That's a great trade for Tavares. Personal opinion but i think Galchenyuk is pretty overrated.

Lehkonen/Byron - Tavares - Radulov (spread the offense around by having Patches play on the 2nd line, Tavares can carry a line by himself and he's never played with a player as good as Radulov, hell maybe even Hudon can fill the LW spot)

Pacioretty - Danault - Gallagher

Lehkonen/Byron - Plekanec - Shaw

Markov/Sergachev - Weber
Markov/Sergachev - Petry
Davidson - Benn

Sergachev will be NHL ready next year.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You're not gonna be able to sign Tavares, Pacioretty, Radulov, Price AND Galchenyuk. That's a great trade for Tavares. Personal opinion but i think Galchenyuk is pretty overrated.

Lehkonen/Byron - Tavares - Radulov (spread the offense around by having Patches play on the 2nd line, Tavares can carry a line by himself and he's never played with a player as good as Radulov, hell maybe even Hudon can fill the LW spot)

Pacioretty - Danault - Gallagher

Lehkonen/Byron - Plekanec - Shaw

Markov/Sergachev - Weber
Markov/Sergachev - Petry
Davidson - Benn

Tavares immediately becomes our best forward. You take that kind of talent when you can get it. Radulov becomes far less important to sign if you get Johnny T.

Sergachev will be NHL ready next year.

He's not even at the AHL yet.

 

[bsl]

I expect that keeping of price will cost around 8-9 million a year.

Let's see if he stops 35 shots a game through three rounds and carries the Habs to the cup final.

Otherwise 6 mill 8 years will do. Or trade. This is Price prove it and play healthy in PO year. And get to the cup final. He's never done it. Not once. And lesser goalies have. With better teams though. But if price wants 8 mill a year than cup final is the test.

Cup final or take 6 a year.

DA I've already predicted a huge Price debate on this board next year.

No cup final due to Price being a playoff monster this year. No huge money. This is my position.

 

[DAChampion]

You're not gonna be able to sign Tavares, Pacioretty, Radulov, Price AND Galchenyuk.

The salary cap should start going up again, particularly as more Canadian teams make the playoffs.

It's not inconceivable between Plekanec and Emelin soon coming off the books, Parenteau and Desharnais coming off the books, and potential cap increases.

 

[Habs Icing]

That move doesn't really help us. Tavares would be awesome but it's really awesome if we get him and keep Chuck.

I'd much rather empty the prospect group and a couple of first rounders.

1st rounder
2nd rounder
Sergachev
MaCcarron
Sherbek
Plekanec

We basically drain the prospect pool and go all in on Tavares but we also offset Plek's salary and suddenly an area of weakness for years becomes an area of strength at the center position. Imagine a one two punch of Tavares and Chuck there. Suddenly our goal scoring just got a whole lot better.

I'd want permission to talk with JT before making this trade though. If he's UFA at the end of next year, you'd better find out if he's going to sign with you before going all in on him like this. That's way too much to pay for a rental.

I almost jumped at your offer and then saw Sergachev...... My cautious nature says no.

 

[bsl]

I expect that keeping of price will cost around 8-9 million a year.

Why.

 

[bsl]

Lundqvist got 8.5M for 7 years at 32 years old.

Yeah and that's working out.

 

[Habs Icing]

The salary cap should start going up again, particularly as more Canadian teams make the playoffs.

It's not inconceivable between Plekanec and Emelin soon coming off the books, Parenteau and Desharnais coming off the books, and potential cap increases.

I thought they both had only one year left after this season.

 

[Frozenice]

Tavares immediately becomes our best forward. You take that kind of talent when you can get it. Radulov becomes far less important to sign if you get Johnny T.

I'm hesitant to give Radulov big money for 7 or 8 years. I'd rather pay a bit more on a 2 or 3 year contract and I think Radulov would rather take the free agency route instead.

I'd love to get Tavares and if that means losing Galchenyuk, so be it. But Tavares would have to agree to some sort of arrangement first before I'd trade Galchenyuk.

 

[sandviper]

That would be great but for one year of Tavares?

Yeah, I agree... I'd do that trade but it is tough to swallow for just 1 year. I have no problem with an add on if that means we can get a decent D prospect. While we have to figure out how to resign JT, Chuck is gonna be paid this summer and I think Bo is also a RFA.

 

[bsl]

WhiskeySeven makes a good point -- it took a very long time for Carey Price to become an elite goalie, but we stuck with him.

Price was drafted in 2005 and showed numerous flashes of brilliance from 2008 onwards. He emerged as an elite goalie in the 2014 campaign.

Elite goalies perform in the playoffs. Who gives damn about regular season.

 

[DAChampion]

I thought they both had only one year left after this season.

 

[bsl]

That deal was signed almost a little more than 3 years ago now. Price will get $9M+ AAV due to inflation and future Salary Cap value.

Ha ha. Hee hee. Not a chance unless Habs go 6 in the cup final because of price. It's playoffs man. That's when goalies step up or not.

 

[bsl]

Price became elite in the 2014 season after Stephane Waite was hired (By MB ). Waite surely helped Price (to some degree) at being a consistent goalie allowing less "soft" goals. To me, the difference between an elite level NHL goalie and an average NHL goalie is consistency and not allowing too many soft goals.

No. it's standing on your head and winning a cup. That's what great goalies do.

 

[le_sean]

It's not Galchenyuk's fault the rest of the team can't score. That Plekanec and Emelin are 10m wasted. That Weber cannot generate offense. That Petry plays well every other night. That Markov is on his last legs. That our PP set-up is ridiculous (in a bad way). That Radulov can't play more than 50 games in a season. That Gallagher was ice-cold for a long stretch. That Lehkonen was ice-cold for an even longer stretch. That Danault was ice-cold despite tons of ice-time.

He just turned 23, has hit 30 goals already and is playing this season at 0.8ppg as a C. He's just getting his legs back after the injury that clearly debilitated him and has something like 10 points in his last 12 games. He's so damn far from being the problem, I really don't get all this criticism.

He's a younger player, he's going to make mistakes. He's not as good as McJesus or Tavares or other super-elite rookies, his trajectory isn't as steep. Why should we get rid of a player who is constantly progressing and actually scores??

If the Isles are willing to move Tavares, that would be one thing. And yes, Chucky would probably go the other way and it would be a fair deal. But both Beaulieu and Chucky finally, for the first times in their NHL career, have a legitimate NHL headcoach. I'd rather see if they can fulfill their promise. We stuck with Carey Price and it paid off in an incredible way, maybe it's worth sticking with Chucky too.

I was criticising his usage and development for years but now that Therrien and DD are gone, we should see what's in store. And I don't think Tavares is getting moved - and if he is, why wouldn't they swap him with Duchene/Ladenskog+ and get him out of their conference while they're at it? Why wouldn't the Leafs trade one of their great youngsters+ for their prodigal son? Why wouldn't half the teams in the league not lineup and offer a treasure chest for the near-elite 1st line C that is Johnny T?

Never said Galchenyuk was the reason the Habs can't score. I simply watch him and realize he's not a centreman. The Habs need a centre.

It's funny how Chicago barely gave Danault playing time, he comes here and makes a name for himself and forces the coach's hand to play him more and with better players.

Galchenyuk doesn't implicate himself. It's been 5 years and the only time he's forced a coach's hand was in his rookie season because the team sucked so they kept him up, and last season when the team sucked and there was zero pressure.

He's slow, sucks at defence, sucks at faceoffs, isn't physical, and cannot drive a line. All he has is a really good shot and some nice hands. Sounds like a winger to me. So trade him while teams think they can salvage him as a centre and get someone who can play tough minutes down the middle, because he can't.

 

[crazyd]

The only way I trade Galchenyuk in a package trade for JT is a sign and trade type deal. NO WAY IN HELL I TRADE FOR JT AND GIVE UP GALCHENYUK WHO IS GOING TO SIGN A 8 YEAR TEAM FRIENDLY DEAL THIS OFF SEASON ($6.5M +/- AAV) AND JUST STARTING HIS PRIME YEARS.

The way you improve the Habs is you add to the team without major subtraction (using prospects and future picks). I get how some people want JT now and he makes the Habs better but JT becomes yet another guy who lacks offensive skills around him and his production probably goes down.

Hockey is a team sport. The team over weighs a player unless you are a Crosby or a McDavid type player - these are rare to come by. Proper arguments can be made that Price is in that category.

You need to evaluate the team as a whole and make sure that each piece of the puzzle fits to ensure that your team is competing and can compete to overachieve better than any other team.

Galchenyuk has impressive qualities (speed, skill, mean streak) and seems to be a very good teammate. But does he fit? Is he a piece of the puzzle in this team.

Montreal's roster issues are at Center. How is Galchenuyk fitting in that role? It is difficult, he is not adapting well enough (face-offs in particular), not using his qualities to be a best fit in what is required. In most cases lines in which he centers don't compete well enough. His linemates start struggling because of Galchenyuk's playing style - again player playing style versus team playing style. Does he fit?

When you start paying attention to after-game scrums, players and coaching are giving hints towards such questions: identity, chemistry....

Can Galchenyuk be a ppg layer? His potential can clearly bring him there. Is it as a Center or a Winger?

Montreal needs a center and we didn't draft well enough to ensure that our middle line be the driving force of our offense. So what do you do? Do you keep a piece of "A" puzzle that doesn't fit - although it is a beautiful piece - and leave your puzzle undone? Or do you start looking for who has the other puzzle that needs your beautiful piece in the hopes of finishing your own puzzle?

Ideal world is that you can get your missing piece while keeping that "other" beautiful piece, but even then it may still not fit...

 

[Brainiac]

Andrighetto, Fucale and a second round pick for Tavares?

First of all, this is a ridiculously lowball offer. Secondly, who's that Andrighetto guy you're talking about?

 

[crazyd]

He's slow, sucks at defence, sucks at faceoffs, isn't physical, and cannot drive a line. All he has is a really good shot and some nice hands. Sounds like a winger to me. So trade him while teams think they can salvage him as a centre and get someone who can play tough minutes down the middle, because he can't.

He ain't slow, I agree with the rest of your comment. Galchenyuk may well be the best piece for trade we have - and probably the only one with real worth.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Never said Galchenyuk was the reason the Habs can't score. I simply watch him and realize he's not a centreman. The Habs need a centre.

So why not deal other, much worse players first instead of Chucky?

Funny how you say he's not a centreman... he is 22nd in NHL centres for points/game. That's with the collapse, his injury and ice-cold performance rehabbing the injury.

It's funny how Chicago barely gave Danault playing time, he comes here and makes a name for himself and forces the coach's hand to play him more and with better players.

Danault developed like all young players develop. Trades also kickstart some players into another level. Danault, as far as I can see, is just experiencing what Dale Weise experienced. I don't think he's established himself as anything top6 just yet.

Galchenyuk doesn't implicate himself. It's been 5 years and the only time he's forced a coach's hand was in his rookie season because the team sucked so they kept him up, and last season when the team sucked and there was zero pressure.

He's a generally passive player, yes. But most scorers are. He has great hands and the way the team was programmed to play under Therrien is slowly being undone, I'm looking forward to utilising Chucky's talents more.

He's slow, sucks at defence, sucks at faceoffs, isn't physical, and cannot drive a line. All he has is a really good shot and some nice hands. Sounds like a winger to me. So trade him while teams think they can salvage him as a centre and get someone who can play tough minutes down the middle, because he can't.

He is slow, his defense isn't great, and faceoffs are medicore - yeah I'll take those. He's strong on the puck though and is a scoring C. Have you seen other scoring Cs? This is how they play. He's not going to be in-prime Joe Sakic or Steve Yzerman. Watch more hockey, he's nowhere close to the picture you're painting.

Pleks plays tough minutes down the minutes. We already have him. You happy with him?

He is very very talented. It should be nurtured not banished.

 

[G0bias]

You're not gonna be able to sign Tavares, Pacioretty, Radulov, Price AND Galchenyuk.

That's only if you keep everyone else on board.

Plekanec, Emelin, DD, Parenteau. That's 12M of dead weight. Add the cap going up. If that's not enough then you trade players like Shaw or even Petry if you need to. You make it work.

When the time came, Chicago unloaded decent to good players to make room so their core could stay. Yet they kept Kane, Toews, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook and Crawford for a very long time.

 

[crazyd]

Funny how you say he's not a centreman... he is 22nd in NHL centres for points/game. That's with the collapse, his injury and ice-cold performance rehabbing the injury.

He's a generally passive player, yes. But most scorers are. He has great hands and the way the team was programmed to play under Therrien is slowly being undone, I'm looking forward to utilising Chucky's talents more.

He is very very talented. It should be nurtured not banished.

You are right that talented players should be nurtured and to some degree that is what has been done during Galchenyuk's development years.

The thing is....and is my assumption....Galchenyuk will perform equally well as a winger. His faults are less damaging when he is used as a winger. When used as a Center it creates too many disruptions in the roster.

It is not a question of banishing Galchenyuk, it's a question of identity and chemistry for a formidable roster.

Of course, ideally, you keep Galchenyuk, no question. But you can't aspire to hoist up the cup with a dysfunctional roster. Unfortunately, using Galchenyuk as a center tends to show just that.

 

[le_sean]

Well Whiskey, if they can find a good centre without giving him up, then by all means. But he'd probably have to be part of the package. I could see him as a 2nd line centre, sure, they are allowed to have those flaws as long as there's a legit 1st liner and someone like Danault on the 3rd. I just don't think it's realistic. Otherwise you're making him a winger, Chuck can possibly slide into 2nd line LW. But the salary cap comes into play and Lehkonen will be a better bargain and Byron doesn't deserve 4th line duties.

 

[TT1]

Yeah and that's working out.

Price and his agent don't care whether or not it worked out for NYR, they just want comparables to make their case. Price will say he's a better goalie than Lundqvist and he's younger, therefore he deserves more money than him, simple as that.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

You are right that talented players should be nurtured and to some degree that is what has been done during Galchenyuk's development years.

The thing is....and is my assumption....Galchenyuk will perform equally well as a winger. His faults are less damaging when he is used as a winger. When used as a Center it creates too many disruptions in the roster.

It is not a question of banishing Galchenyuk, it's a question of identity and chemistry for a formidable roster.

Of course, ideally, you keep Galchenyuk, no question. But you can't aspire to hoist up the cup with a dysfunctional roster. Unfortunately, using Galchenyuk as a center tends to show just that.

The dysnfunction of the roster has much more to do with the dysfunctional coach we just fired and the dysfunctional management who flood the roster with scrubs and nobodies every 6 months.

It's beyond me how you can blame Galchenyuk for "roster dysfunction" and not Plekanec who was expected be the 1B/2 and performs like a middling 3rd line C.

As for his faults, I'm not sure what is his fault and what is the lack of chemistry and what is just him not having confidence. Confidence and morale is like a multiplier, you saw it yesterday with Byron trying to make some ridiculous plays just because he felt like he could. I don't see how Chucky would be any better than he is right now as a winger, I can see him not being used to his full potential, that's for certain.

You guys have to temper or adjust your expectations. He was "developing" for five years, and now suddenly he's overcooked and overdone and needs to be moved. This is the bipolar behaviour of Montreal fans that every other fanbase loves to mock. Get a grip, progress isn't linear and Chucky has made improvements since they've tried to bring him to C (despite Therrien's best efforts).

At least you folks can now see why I was pulling my hair and ragging on this terrible coach and GM all this team for how poorly they developed Chucky.

Well Whiskey, if they can find a good centre without giving him up, then by all means. But he'd probably have to be part of the package. I could see him as a 2nd line centre, sure, they are allowed to have those flaws as long as there's a legit 1st liner and someone like Danault on the 3rd. I just don't think it's realistic. Otherwise you're making him a winger, Chuck can possibly slide into 2nd line LW. But the salary cap comes into play and Lehkonen will be a better bargain and Byron doesn't deserve 4th line duties.

Lehkonen has a fart's worth of points compared to Chucky. Byron is a 3rd line player who has caught lightning in a bottle and is playing 2nd line only due to his incredible speed. Neither have the talent Chucky has. Maybe Lehks could get there but as it stands, Lehks, Gallagher, Danault, Byron, Shaw, and whoever else you might muster up are all the same kinda player: grinders. Players who use effort and speed to gain an advantage and score random goals. Lehks has some hands, Gallagher and Danault can make some plays but by and large they're not consistent skilled performers. Chucky is.

I'd move him for Tavares, of course. But I won't get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him. Talent is rare in the NHL, Chucky has it in bundles.

Were you guys also ragging on Kovalev all the time too?