Speculation: Trade deadline acquisitions (All rumors/proposals/etc) - Part II

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I like Ward as a depth piece. Doesn't he have term on his deal though?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

No he is UFA

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Why are the caps moving him then?

 

[Pepe Silvia]

I'd rather see them get a center, but Ward would be a nice addition. And he's definitely not overpaid

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Difference between this year and last year is that last year our bottom 6 contributed and Oduya/Rosival were actually decent. This year both have been awful along with the bottom 6 chipping in nothing.

Which is why we traded to get a defenseman? Get it? Also, the Oduya hate has gone a little far as well. He's not having a good year, but he's still a average NHL defense man which is fine on the 3rd pairing.

So lets looks at the great bottom 6 of last year, because there is some revisionist history going on if you think they were much different than what we are getting now.

Bickell (slitghtly better) played 59 games last year and had 15 Pts. This year he has 24 pts in 62 games (projected 32 pts). Versteeg (significantly better) had 29 pts in 63 games last year. This year 31 pts in 42 (projected 46 pts). Shaw (worse) had 39 pts in 80 games. This year 16 pts in 59 games (Projected 21 Pts). Put him at wing and his game is improving. Ben Smith (worse) last year 26 pts in 75 games. This year 9 pts in 60 (proj 12). His shooting % was 15.6 last year and his 6.6% this year. For his career he’s at 12%. So lucky last year, unlucky this year. Kruger (slight drop) 28 pts in 81 games last year. 13 pts in 61 games this year (proj 17). Bollig to Carcillo (wash, who cares) 14 pts in 82 games last year. 8 in 37 (17 in a full 82 games. Tuevo is hopefully going to stay around and could be an asset.

So of the guys that were on the team last year, Bickel is projected to have 17 pts better. Versteeg 17 pts better. Shaw 18 pts worse. Smith 14 pts worse. Kruger 11 pts worse. Bolling/Carcillo +3 for a net of….wait for it… a whole -6 pts on last year. You are right. We are screwed.

 

[ploppsdman]

Unless this is a 3-way trade, I don't see how the Caps/Hawks match up for a deal involving Sharp. Sharp for Laich (retained salary) and 1st round pick ... the 1st round pick flipped to ARZ for Vermette.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Why are the caps moving him then?

Sounds like Caps are feeling pressure to make a run over these next few years

Ovy is about to turn 30 so who knows how many big years he has left

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Unless this is a 3-way trade, I don't see how the Caps/Hawks match up for a deal involving Sharp. Sharp for Laich and 1st round pick ... the 1st round pick flipped to ARZ for Vermette.

So Hawks are left in dire cap situation with a 4.5M disaster in Laich?

Sharp at 5.9M x 2 years will be far easier to move then Laich who is negative value at this point

 

[ploppsdman]

So Hawks are left in dire cap situation with a 4.5M disaster in Laich?

Sharp at 5.9M x 2 years will be far easier to move then Laich who is negative value at this point

Sorry, I edited my post to include retained salary for Laich.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

So Hawks are left in dire cap situation with a 4.5M disaster in Laich?

Sharp at 5.9M x 2 years will be far easier to move then Laich who is negative value at this point

If they're making a push they'd be keeping guys like Ward no?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Who knows

Only certain is taking back Laich is not viable and if Stan did it he would be crippling Hawks this offseason possibly costing team Saad

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Why are the caps moving him then?

Sounds like Caps are feeling pressure to make a run over these next few years

Ovy is about to turn 30 so who knows how many big years he has left

If they're making a push they'd be keeping guys like Ward no?

I think what BWC's saying is that management thinks they're better off as a seller and improving the roster for the future, rather than get a playoff out of him where they don't think they'll make a run anyway.

 

[ploppsdman]

I just can't see Sharp on this team after Monday. I just don't see it. You don't hear rumors about players like Sharp unless there's some real desire to move him. I talked about Sharp being moved a few weeks ago ... now there's just a question (in my mind) of where he can go and for who/what.

 

[DrunkKaner88]

Which is why we traded to get a defenseman? Get it? Also, the Oduya hate has gone a little far as well. He's not having a good year, but he's still a average NHL defense man which is fine on the 3rd pairing.

So lets looks at the great bottom 6 of last year, because there is some revisionist history going on if you think they were much different than what we are getting now.

Bickell (slitghtly better) played 59 games last year and had 15 Pts. This year he has 24 pts in 62 games (projected 32 pts). Versteeg (significantly better) had 29 pts in 63 games last year. This year 31 pts in 42 (projected 46 pts). Shaw (worse) had 39 pts in 80 games. This year 16 pts in 59 games (Projected 21 Pts). Put him at wing and his game is improving. Ben Smith (worse) last year 26 pts in 75 games. This year 9 pts in 60 (proj 12). His shooting % was 15.6 last year and his 6.6% this year. For his career he’s at 12%. So lucky last year, unlucky this year. Kruger (slight drop) 28 pts in 81 games last year. 13 pts in 61 games this year (proj 17). Bollig to Carcillo (wash, who cares) 14 pts in 82 games last year. 8 in 37 (17 in a full 82 games. Tuevo is hopefully going to stay around and could be an asset.

So of the guys that were on the team last year, Bickel is projected to have 17 pts better. Versteeg 17 pts better. Shaw 18 pts worse. Smith 14 pts worse. Kruger 11 pts worse. Bolling/Carcillo +3 for a net of….wait for it… a whole -6 pts on last year. You are right. We are screwed.

The only spot Oduya has been somewhat ok is the 2nd pairing with Hjammer. Which means he is still going to get decent minutes which is a problem. Trading for a 40 year old who hasn't played in a year isn't going to solve all the defensive problems of this team. -6 to go along with no Kane and the disappearance of Patrick Sharp. Not sure how you think this team will be fine in the playoffs when the only line who can seemingly create anything is the first and sometimes the 2nd.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Sharp this season: 48 games - 10 G 22 assts 32 pts
Vermette this season 62 games - 13 G 22 assts 35 pts

Sharp last season 82 games - 34 G 44 assts 78 pts
Vermette last season 82 games - 24 G 21 assts 45 pts

I understand Sharp has had better teammates, but his play over the years has made his teammates better as well. Sharp has been a major contributor for the Blackhawks for 10 seasons, 2 Cups, and is one of the top Hawk forwards of all time. On top of that he is a class act, a great teammate, and a hugely popular guy in the locker room. I am sorry but it makes me sick to see people wanting to just dump him in a not so great injury season and approve of bringing in a guy who has been nowhere near Sharp's level in his career and even this year has about the same amount of goals and points as Sharp in 14 more games. I will be sick seeing Sharp leave here one day but people here just want something different and are ready to change him out for a player that is not better.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Sharp is out of here at end of year anyway and his play doesn't warrant holding onto him

And the problem is more then just this season , He was the biggest disappointment in last years playoffs and he has been the biggest disappointment this season

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

The only spot Oduya has been somewhat ok is the 2nd pairing with Hjammer. Which means he is still going to get decent minutes which is a problem. Trading for a 40 year old who hasn't played in a year isn't going to solve all the defensive problems of this team. -6 to go along with no Kane and the disappearance of Patrick Sharp. Not sure how you think this team will be fine in the playoffs when the only line who can seemingly create anything is the first and sometimes the 2nd.

And Richards over Handzus. I'm not telling you they are going to win it all. No one knows. I'm telling you I'd they have a chance because they still have a ton of talent. Games aren't played on paper. How you don't think they have a chance with a team of guys that have won twice were an inch away from a third one last year, I don't get it. You guys saying there's no chance to win because of one guy and that's nuts to me. Every year there are upsets and surprises. Look at Hossa before he came to the Blackhawks. Prime Hossa is just as good of player as Kane is. He gets traded to the Pens. They make it the to the finals and lose to the Wings. The next year the Pens make it back to the finals but this time they don't have Hossa. Not only do they not have him, but the Wings do. There's no way the Pens could beat the Wings without Hossa if they couldn't with him, using your logic. Pens win. Every team has flaws. You guys watch the Hawks so closely (which is great) that you see all of theres and don't notice anyone else's.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Sharp is out of here at end of year anyway and his play doesn't warrant holding onto him

And the problem is more then just this season , He was the biggest disappointment in last years playoffs and he has been the biggest disappointment this season

He was our best regular season player last year. He was also our best player in game 7 against LA, showing up big when many others didn't. If we dump players for one bad playoffs Toews would have been gone after the 2013 cup season. Sharp has been injured this year and not producing and still has about the same production as Vermette in 14 less games.

Vermette is not better then Sharp and will not make the team better this year if he is here and Sharp is gone. If its in the offseason I get it, not now unless it is a hugely lopsided deal in our favor.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

He was our best regular season player last year. He was also our best player in game 7 against LA, showing up big when many others didn't. If we dump players for one bad playoffs Toews would have been gone after the 2013 cup season. Sharp has been injured this year and not producing and still has about the same production as Vermette in 14 less games.

Vermette is not better then Sharp and will not make the team better this year if he is here and Sharp is gone. If its in the offseason I get it, not now unless it is a hugely lopsided deal in our favor.

Handzus scored OT winner in game 5 ,, Didn't mean he showed up for anything but a single moment

Sharp had 1 good game and an entire playoff of horrendous play

And it isn't 2013 anymore or 2010 anymore. Sharp is about to be 33 and is going away

His play this year has been atrocious and is only getting worse. He offers nothing positive to roster and Vermette's defense is certainly better then Sharp's at this point and he doesn't have 5.9M cap hit for next 2 years

I get it we all loved what Sharp did for Hawks thru years but it is time to move on

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Handzus scored OT winner in game 5 ,, Didn't mean he showed up for anything but a single moment

Sharp had 1 good game and an entire playoff of horrendous play

And it isn't 2013 anymore or 2010 anymore. Sharp is about to be 33 and is going away

His play this year has been atrocious and is only getting worse. He offers nothing positive to roster and Vermette's defense is certainly better then Sharp's at this point and he doesn't have 5.9M cap hit for next 2 years

I get it we all loved what Sharp did for Hawks thru years but it is time to move on

I don't agree if its before this trade deadline and Vermette ends up being the replacement. We will agree to disagree on this one and I would be shocked if Bowman sides with you and dumps Sharp at this deadline. We will see in the next few days.

 

[HawksFan37]

I am by no means a Stan apologist and he deserves a lot of crapping on for some of his decisions the last couple years. He's definitely made some mistakes.

But in this case, he's really damned if does, and damned if he doesn't. If he's a buyer, he gets blasted for overpaying. To me the damage is just as bad if he sells despite what the odds say without 88 in the lineup. This is a team with a core that has provided us with a great 6-7 year run and 2 Stanley Cups. They currently sit in a playoff spot. And Stan is supposed to go and sell assets because one player (granted a great player) is hurt? Imagine him having to look Toews, Hossa, Seabrook, Keith etc. in the eye after basically giving up on them because of one bad break. A veteran FA like Richards signs in Chicago for a discount because the team is trying to win the Cup, and then because of one bad break they give up?

I understand that losing some assets for the future has its negatives. But there are negatives that may be just as important, if not more important by sending the message to the players (and others around the league) that management says it's going to do everything it can to help the team win and then doesn't do it.

Regarding 2015-16 and the cap crunch, I totally get some changes are going to be made, the Hawks will have to rely on a lot of young players on cheap contracts. Hopefully they don't sacrifice a lot of players who are near NHL ready here in the next two days. But on that point, giving up a couple of draft picks who probably wouldn't help the team until 2018 or so is not the end of the world to me as they are less valuable than players who could play a role on the Hawks in 2015-16. Especially when some of these cap-crunch deals in the offseason will yield draft picks in return to help replenish the draft pick ammo.

Long story short, I just can't see how how you go to the leadership group of this team and say "we're throwing in the towel". They have earned the right over the last 7 years to try to give this a shot, even if the odds are a little bleak.

Lastly, if a trade comes along for Sharp that is a "hockey trade" and can help the team this year in addition to helping 2015-16, I don't consider that a "throwing in the towel" move. Sharp's been awful all year, getting some pieces for him might actually make the team better both this year and in the future.

 

[JaegerDice]

Really can't ever count out this Hawks team.

The switch is a cliche joke, but the Hawks really are the only team in the NHL with the talent to just flip it on and power through any opponent. And we've seen them do it plenty of times.

I'll admit it's a little harder to say that with Kane on the sidelines, but I still think it's true.

Uh...perhaps you've heard of the Los Angeles Kings?

They've shown they have a switch far more so than the Blackhawks do. Generally speaking, the Blackhawks success in the playoffs has reflected their play during the regular season.

I agree that they shouldn't be counted out. But they need to start addressing their process now. Whether they can change their slot in the standards is far less relevant than simply ensuring they're all playing great hockey and clicking.

 

[migi]

Sharp this season: 48 games - 10 G 22 assts 32 pts
Vermette this season 62 games - 13 G 22 assts 35 pts

Sharp last season 82 games - 34 G 44 assts 78 pts
Vermette last season 82 games - 24 G 21 assts 45 pts

I understand Sharp has had better teammates, but his play over the years has made his teammates better as well. Sharp has been a major contributor for the Blackhawks for 10 seasons, 2 Cups, and is one of the top Hawk forwards of all time. On top of that he is a class act, a great teammate, and a hugely popular guy in the locker room. I am sorry but it makes me sick to see people wanting to just dump him in a not so great injury season and approve of bringing in a guy who has been nowhere near Sharp's level in his career and even this year has about the same amount of goals and points as Sharp in 14 more games. I will be sick seeing Sharp leave here one day but people here just want something different and are ready to change him out for a player that is not better.

I really don't get this post, because Chicago Blackhawks isn't going to get Antoine Vermette for Patrick Sharp.

I am fine if Sharp stays in Chicago, but personally I am willing to trade him for decent return which is not Antoine Vermette.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

O/T - but the list they have on the Trade board for Hawks media is out of date. I gave them the names they omitted - but if I missed anyone let them know:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=98121123#post98121123

(their current list can be found in the OP of that thread).

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Uh...perhaps you've heard of the Los Angeles Kings?

They've shown they have a switch far more so than the Blackhawks do. Generally speaking, the Blackhawks success in the playoffs has reflected their play during the regular season.

I agree that they shouldn't be counted out. But they need to start addressing their process now. Whether they can change their slot in the standards is far less relevant than simply ensuring they're all playing great hockey and clicking.

Last year the hawks were struggling post Olympics and had quite the playoff run.