Confirmed with Link: [TOR/TBL] TOR Acquires Brian Boyle For Byron Froese + 2nd Round Pick 2017

[Kelly]

What are the conditions on the pick?

They get the lowest of all 3 of them.

 

[thewave]

I feel the same for the most part. It's funny, the people who are actually in the game, or have played the game have universally praised this trade. The people who follow hockey on message boards are the ones who don't like it. One group I value their opinion far greater than the other.

Everyone loves the echo-chamber. If you like me, you probably also like a lot of PPP stuff because I know I do.

 

[The CyNick]

I think if you add context these draft picks mean something.

Context:

- are leafs contending or rebuilding?

- Is the leaf scouting team same, worst or better than past regimes?

once you answer these questions and then judge Boyle as a player relative to his NHL peers it is a bad trade.

What is the definition of a contender to you? If we make the conference finals, is that contending?

 

[The CyNick]

No you lack reading comprehension or fail to read my posts.

We need a D period if they want to make an honest run. I don't know if I said a 1st for Green or not but I think he is signed for 3yrs at least.

We traded a 2nd for a guy that is slower than Goat and has 1% better on the dot percentage. He is more physical and has experience but does not ENSURE WE GET INTO THE PO. It was a whimsical trade at best unless they are going to trade for a 4D now etc. You almost have to go all in to justify this trade but also be aware we are not winning a conference or anything for that matter either way. Maybe a round if we pad the D some but this comes at the cost of long term growth and development so enjoy.

In you experience, what do you think a round of playoff experience is worth to the development of a group of rookie hockey players? The people who I talk to who are in the game or have been in the game say it's the most valuable learning you can get on the ice. Maybe they are wrong. Probably not, but maybe.

 

[PromisedLand]

What I see is that the Leafs are in a playoff spot with a weak defence corps and a horrible 4th line centre with Ben Smith. Smith now hopefully permanently comes out of the lineup with Boyle taking his spot.

Currently in a playoff spot: [x]
4th line centre spot addressed: [x]
Defence corps improved: [ ]

Defence is likely going to be improved before the deadline. Also "judge Boyle as a player relative to his NHL peers" lol? Is that a joke? He's been one of the best 4th/3rd liners in the league since 2010

GOAT is our 4C.

Suppose Leafs do end up making the playoffs (remember: condensed schedule upcoming, D is the weak link) how much of an "impact" you expect a 4C to have in the playoffs? How much time does a 4th line get in the playoffs anyway?

If Boyle was an anomoly for a 4th liner who ups his game in playoff situation then ok fine... but this is not the case

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=72656


Doesn't matter how you cut this; it is a bad trade from contextual pov

 

[Its not your fault]

Winning breeds healthy hockey teams

 

[B Champman]

Dude, don't be a loser, telling someone they shouldn't post because you think you're smarter than them isn't cool.

I dont think im smarter than anyone, but when someone posts garbage they deserve to be called out for it. Way to apply your own thought process and call it my reasoning.

 

[francis246]

ofc my post gets deleted after I make a valid point...

 

[Menzinger]

GOAT is our 4C.

Suppose Leafs do end up making the playoffs (remember: condensed schedule upcoming, D is the weak link) how much of an "impact" you expect a 4C to have in the playoffs? How much time does a 4th line get in the playoffs anyway?

If Boyle was an anomoly for a 4th liner who ups his game in playoff situation then ok fine... but this is not the case

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=72656


Doesn't matter how you cut this; it is a bad trade from contextual pov

And why does the GOAT have a lock on that 4C position? He hardly dominated during his play this season - he's yet to establish himself as a permanent NHLer.

Most teams that go deep in the playoffs have above average 4th lines.

From a "contextual pov" the Leafs gave up a late pick, in a weak draft to fill a gaping hole on the team.

 

[thewave]

In you experience, what do you think a round of playoff experience is worth to the development of a group of rookie hockey players? The people who I talk to who are in the game or have been in the game say it's the most valuable learning you can get on the ice. Maybe they are wrong. Probably not, but maybe.

Honestly if our Defense is so crap and buckle completely and we are out 4 straight I think it's more damaging than good. If it's another collapse, again not good. If we hold our own then maybe they get a good feel for it and it helps.

The point was, I would sooner spend that pick on a top 4D and even spend more than that because I do not see a clear advantage of Boyle of Goat with the foot speed he has. Goat gives you most of everything Boyle does save for experience and when it comes to that, I want Goat to get some PO experience as well. I actually think he makes the 4th line usable.

 

[The CyNick]

I don't like this trade. Reasons:

- Traded a 2nd ronder + 4th liner for a 4th liner
- 32 yrs old; no guarantees he re-signs with us
- slow skater does not "fit" up temp style of system
- Is not an upgrade over Bozak
- Takes away minutes from Goat
- Leafs are still rebuilding - no need for a rental

Basically we threw our 2nd rounder for 20 odd games from a rental and if we do make playoffs; my guess is we get out in the first round or at the most 2nd round


I have seen people post 44% of 2nd rounders become NHLers' with two 2nd rounders those odds are much better with good scouting. 44% of NHLers are result of "good scouting" + "bad scouting". If we assume that Mark Hunter is a better judge of talent than past leaf scouts that basically means we missed the boat. Now we have only one 2nd rounder with Hunter to work with.

Management had promised that Leafs will NOT trade future for help "now" as this team is not ready; - management does completely opposite.


#Disappointed

To be fair, our 2nd round pick was likely to be in the 40s, maybe even late 40s, so the odds of the player becoming something is even lower.

Curious, when do you think the rebuild is over and it's okay to move some marginal pieces for help in the near term?

 

[Canada4Gold]

They get the lowest of all 3 of them.

only if lowest = best, as is lowest number. Of those 3 picks, Tampa picks first, Anaheim/Dallas 2nd, then us.

 

[thewave]

And why does the GOAT have a lock on that 4C position? He hardly dominated during his play this season - he's yet to establish himself as a permanent NHLer.

Most teams that go deep in the playoffs have above average 4th lines.

From a "contextual pov" the Leafs gave up a late pick, in a weak draft to fill a gaping hole on the team.

They are developing him man, he is playing really well for a kid... He actually makes that 4th line relevant or am I the only one that see's it?

 

[Go4soda]

Tell me how much better our chances are of making the PO with Boyle over Goat? Like give me a hard number how much better he makes this team.

OK. And i suppose you have a hard number on how much better goat makes us.

Also, this acquisition is not an indictment on the goat.
He is still our guy going forward.

 

[Nalens Oga]

I actually think Boyle is an upgrade over Bozak, Goat should be the 4th C, and Bozak should be flipped to a team that needs a centre like NYI for a dman like de Haan.

 

[Steven1562]

Honestly if our Defense is so crap and buckle completely and we are out 4 straight I think it's more damaging than good. If it's another collapse, again not good. If we hold our own then maybe they get a good feel for it and it helps.

The point was, I would sooner spend that pick on a top 4D and even spend more than that because I do not see a clear advantage of Boyle of Goat with the foot speed he has. Goat gives you most of everything Boyle does save for experience and when it comes to that, I want Goat to get some PO experience as well. I actually think he makes the 4th line usable.

Your really high on Goat. He's playing like 9 minutes a night and has provided 2 goals. He's not ready to be in the NHL yet that's why they made this trade. He may have the foot speed on Boyle but he doesn't bring the same grit or experience.

 

[HarrisonFord]

people are really complaining about this trade? a 2nd round pick in a weak draft. A good value trade after Burrows got a 2nd round pick from last years draft, Stone got a 3rd, Hainsey got a 2nd, and Hanzal got a 1st and a 2nd +.

People don't seem to understand the value of playoff experience on a young roster. A team full of young guys isn't making a strong push. And they aren't going to win this year either. However, they could get to the 1st round or 2nd round. So next year when they're actually beginning to enter into their competitive window a bit more, they have playoff experience under their belts. Rather than going in with none.

And for the current roster, Boyle adds a lot. He's a veteran, he's a great faceoff guy, he kills penalties, and he can score a bit. Plus now when one of our centers gets hurt we don't have to play Ben ****ing Smith as our #2C

 

[francis246]

2nd attempt at making this post. But people need to realize that you cannot expect to build a team entirely through the draft and by playing it safe. Trading for character players and role players is how you build championship caliber franchises. Intangibles mean something in sports. Boyle brings something to the team that we don't have and shaking up the line-up will help given the way we've played the last couple of games.

You can't be scared to push for the playoffs especially if it's in reach.

At some point as a franchise you have to accept making the playoffs even if you get eliminated early as a win. You want to build a playoff culture, you want to build a winning culture. You want to show your fan base and even your personnel that you believe in the on-ice product.

Newsflash to those who make lineup predictions of all kids lol, 90% of the guys on the marlies will never suit up for more than 20 games as a leaf. You have to have a balance between kids and vets and as we go deeper in the rebuild you're going to see the leafs trade for veterans and even sign vets through UFA. So start getting used to it. This is what good teams do.

 

[The CyNick]

Honestly if our Defense is so crap and buckle completely and we are out 4 straight I think it's more damaging than good. If it's another collapse, again not good. If we hold our own then maybe they get a good feel for it and it helps.

The point was, I would sooner spend that pick on a top 4D and even spend more than that because I do not see a clear advantage of Boyle of Goat with the foot speed he has. Goat gives you most of everything Boyle does save for experience and when it comes to that, I want Goat to get some PO experience as well. I actually think he makes the 4th line usable.

So what trades that were on the table for Lou for Froese and that 2nd rounder that you think he should have went for instead of Boyle? I get you want a D, we all know that's a need. Just curious who was available that was passed on.

Why do you think so many ex hockey people talk about the importance of playing meaningful games down the stretch and getting playoff experience? I've never heard any ex player say it would be great to get into the playoffs, unless you get swept in the first round, then it's better to have the season over by mid March.

Last question, why do you think so many hockey people were praising the trade this afternoon?

 

[Smif]

I dont think im smarter than anyone, but when someone posts garbage they deserve to be called out for it. Way to apply your own thought process and call it my reasoning.

I wasn't the only one that called your post arrogant. It was rude what you said and i don't like someone being treated like that.

 

[-DeMo-]

And why does the GOAT have a lock on that 4C position? He hardly dominated during his play this season - he's yet to establish himself as a permanent NHLer.

Most teams that go deep in the playoffs have above average 4th lines.

From a "contextual pov" the Leafs gave up a late pick, in a weak draft to fill a gaping hole on the team.

a 2nd round pick is not a late pick just saying

 

[francis246]

people are really complaining about this trade? a 2nd round pick in a weak draft. A good value trade after Burrows got a 2nd round pick from last years draft, Stone got a 3rd, Hainsey got a 2nd, and Hanzal got a 1st and a 2nd +.

People don't seem to understand the value of playoff experience on a young roster. A team full of young guys isn't making a strong push. And they aren't going to win this year either. However, they could get to the 1st round or 2nd round. So next year when they're actually beginning to enter into their competitive window a bit more, they have playoff experience under their belts. Rather than going in with none.

And for the current roster, Boyle adds a lot. He's a veteran, he's a great faceoff guy, he kills penalties, and he can score a bit. Plus now when one of our centers gets hurt we don't have to play Ben ****ing Smith as our #2C

amen to someone who gets it

 

[Daisy Jane]

I will say this.
Shanahan, Lou + babcock have all stressed they want competition in every position
so if Gauthier - someone i actually like and think can do well here - can't handle it then maybe it's for the best.

 

[Confucius]

What are the chances at getting a star player in the 2nd round? Because lets face it, thats what matters. Joe NHLer isnt whats upsetting you.

Half as good today as they were yesterday. The more bullets you have the more likely you are going to hit the target.

 

[Menzinger]

They are developing him man, he is playing really well for a kid... He actually makes that 4th line relevant or am I the only one that see's it?

Personally, never been a huge goat fan: thought he looked average at best (and downright terrible some games) during his recent call.

I had hoped he'd be able to be that 4C for the Leafs, but i'm losing faith that's going to happen.