Confirmed with Link: [TOR/TBL] TOR Acquires Brian Boyle For Byron Froese + 2nd Round Pick 2017

[Henchmen 21]

This trade reminds me of the perreault trade from 10 years ago, the difference being that this team can afford to give up a 2nd, as opposed to the 2006/07 team.

Honestly having the rookies experience a playoff race, in one day out the next, is imo almost as valuable for the rookies as a potential playoff appearance would be. As others have stated Boyle can take the pressure of the young guns, and will help stabilize the bottom 6. Besides, Boyle has a crazy amount of playoff experience, he will be a great mentor over this last stretch of games, and wll be very useful if we make the playoffs.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You argument is based on the assumption that Leafs are going to make the playoffs. Leafs have the worst schedule (condensed with most back to backs); D-core is still a hail mary most nights, goalies are bound to get tired and left hung out to dry.

Wrong, I'm not assuming anything.

Making the playoffs and do what exactly? Hawks, Kings etc.... didn't trade their 2nd rounders for a 4th liner to make the playoffs; the 2nd rounders were traded for better support cast for their prime players when they were ready.

Do the best we can and gain valuable experience in the process - what other answer could there possibly be?

By throwing away our 2nd rounder on a 4th liner we are basically signalling that our scouting is not good enough to draft an NHLer with the 2nd rounder. I think Hunter is much better than that.

This is a "first" year of rebuild - throwing away 2nd rounders on 4th liners is insanity IMO

Hyperbole. We didn't throw anything away, we made a trade.

You never answered my question - what value would you say there is to this team (if any) in making the playoffs?

 

[PromisedLand]

I honestly hope we fall off a cliff for only one reason. So we can Draft Foote in the first round, where we have a pick. TB banked that we were going to **** the bed you know, they get the best of our 2nds.. haha smart.

This is a Kessel type bet in principle (not in magnitude). Tampa is betting we will screw it up and then they get a higher pick.

Conditional 2nd but conditions not revealed yet.....Unless it says if leafs do not make playoffs 2nd turns into 3rd;

i am not fine with this at all......

 

[Torontonian]

A 2nd might have been to high to give up for Boyle but the amount of people crying over it in this thread is funny. Clearly management sees making the playoffs a big step in our development, playing in meaningful games in April is more important then us drafting someone in the 2nd round that has a 44% chance of actually making it to the NHL

 

[Gabriel426]

I really like the trade. A 2nd rounder on a relatively weak draft is not the end of the World. Boyle makes the Leafs better and if he is good, Leafs will resign him without exposing him to the expansion draft, as he is a UFA and all Leafs need to do is hold off that signing till after the expansion draft. Another thing is by taking Boyle off the market, Ben Smith and Bozak might just be the best 2Cs on the market. Whose to say having Boyle acts at insurance in order to trade Bozak and Smith.

 

[notdoneyet]

No I think he is the wrong player to get. If they really feel this confident in this team then should have spent that 2nd + on a T4D for the run. It's what we REALLY need.

Maybe wait until we are done before you get your panties in a knot.yes we need dmen in the worst way but maybe Lou and company know what price they would have to pay to acquire one and they aren't prepared to do that at this point. Instead they looked at an upgrade at a position that is a fourth line center. The same posters who are complaining about this trade are the same posters who complain every time smith loses a draw and we get scored on or when smith makes a ****** play and we get scored on.

 

[PromisedLand]

If that was true Hunter would quit.

Did you think that maybe Hunter told them he doesnt really think the chances of an impact player in the 2nd round were good?

This is in a hypothetical world. There is no word out yet whether Hunter actually said that to Lou.

I am still trying to jog my memory (may be you can help) when a rebuilding team in its first year of rebuilding traded a 2nd rounder (regardless of the strength of the draft) for a 4th liner and not a good support cast for its core?

 

[Pi]

The dramatics in this thread are intense. People are in the Oscars mood still.

There are always a few but the Leafs have such a big fan base that our few are quite a bit. Second round pick is nothing. Despite the trades we still have so many picks and our management isn't shortsighted. They will deal Bozak next year, JvR if a deal can't be reached and more than get back the pick we gave up today.

We traded Daniel Winnik for Carrick+ for cripes sake.

 

[thewave]

This is a Kessel type bet in principle (not in magnitude). Tampa is betting we will screw it up and then they get a higher pick.

Conditional 2nd but conditions not revealed yet.....Unless it says if leafs do not make playoffs 2nd turns into 3rd;

i am not fine with this at all......

It's all good, I am with you there. I'll punch up the majority with the honest few here and take the glory when we're probably right in the end.

 

[BigBlu]

One thing missing from your analysis is what would it be worth in development value to make the playoffs. I personally think that has a ton of value, especially this season with all the crap this team/town has suffered over the years and with all the rookies we have ... a round or two of playoff hockey in this town and the air over this city would be fresher and cleaner than it has been in many, many years. I would go a step further and say that making the playoffs this season has more value than it has had at any time since I started following this team almost 50 years ago. Once you factor that in, the trade might not be so bad. But maybe you think making the playoffs doesn't matter?

One thing missing from your analysis is the potential "development value" accrued to Gauthier (a potential long term piece). You don't mention the winning in the playoffs… If that is so, then Matthews/Nylaner/Marner/ Reilly
/Zaitsevg/Goat could all reap the rewards of the big stage experience. With another second rounder waiting in the wings...
Still not sure how I feel about this trade though. Boyle helps this year I think, but really so what... Im still excited to see how he adds though. Playoffs will be fun.

 

[Warden of the North]

This is in a hypothetical world. There is no word out yet whether Hunter actually said that to Lou.

I am still trying to jog my memory (may be you can help) when a rebuilding team in its first year of rebuilding traded a 2nd rounder (regardless of the strength of the draft) for a 4th liner and not a good support cast for its core?

Because its virtually unprecedented for a team in year one of its rebuild to be in a playoff position at this point in the season.

Anyways - Avs traded a 2nd in 2014 for Reto Berra, after selecting Mackinnon 1st overall in 2013. Thats not exactly your criteria, but its the first thing that came to mind

 

[PromisedLand]

Oh god you really need to re-evaluate where we are then in our rebuild. I can't believe I'm telling a fellow Leaf fan this but you need to accept that we are a lot better than what everyone thought we were going to be this year. We've exceeded expectations by miles and now the players themselves, the coaches, the front office wants playoffs.

Who ****ing cares what "year" it is and just see that RIGHT NOW we are a playoff team and LouLam is working as such.

This is precisly what I am afraid of. When leafs made the playoffs in the shortened season; everybody thought that leafs are better than they really were....

After just one season; it is too early IMO to say we are a lot better because we exceeded expectations..... Its one friggen season. We have to wait and see next season if this is consistent or it was a flook? we should have learned from our mistake first time around - (Bolland, Clarkson, etc....)

 

[Rick74*]

All of our seconds are going to be pretty close to each other. Its not like we're giving up pick #32 here

All of our 1 second?

 

[Daisy Jane]

You argument is based on the assumption that Leafs are going to make the playoffs. Leafs have the worst schedule (condensed with most back to backs); D-core is still a hail mary most nights, goalies are bound to get tired and left hung out to dry.

Making the playoffs and do what exactly? Hawks, Kings etc.... didn't trade their 2nd rounders for a 4th liner to make the playoffs; the 2nd rounders were traded for better support cast for their prime players when they were ready.

By throwing away our 2nd rounder on a 4th liner we are basically signalling that our scouting is not good enough to draft an NHLer with the 2nd rounder. I think Hunter is much better than that.

This is a "first" year of rebuild - throwing away 2nd rounders on 4th liners is insanity IMO

And management since april has been saying they want the team to play meaningful games deep in march and april. because it will help their development. So even if the Leafs miss the playoffs - and the very easily could - hte fact that they aren't 15 points out of it and gunning for it - is something to be beneficial.

You are also discounting that Hunter can't find a "2nd round" type player - somewhere else. and we can sign him as a free agent.

you're also discounting that we can't trade for these pieces (or accquire them) when we trade Bozak and/or JVR.

You're also forgetting that we have a HUGE barn full of assets - and while I get that we want to continue to stuff it full - we also can't and not be expected to make SOME kind of move eventually.

I also honestly think - whatever "year" you want to put on the rebuild, the fundamentals of team building can't be ignored. yes. you want to draft extremely well, but you also want to sign well. and you have to trade well. We can not just build the team soley on draft picks, and be like 90 percent drafted players with 90 percent drafted players on the marlies, + McBackup, Carrick and Andersen (and Lepisic if he doesn't get claimed).

the Leafs make the playoffs, and that's 1 year exposure to what to expect in the playoff atmosphere. That's one step closer of knowing what the kids need to do to compete in the playoffs. and then to win a round. and then maybe next year (or the year after) - its okay we're in the second round, rinse, repeat.

being competitive doesn't hurt the rebuild, it doesn't set us back. it helps cultivate a winning culture (hell it will help people come here too). everyone keeps citing what Chicago + Kings didnt do. why don't we start citing what Florida and Edmonton didn't do for the longest time. Which was create a winning atmosphere for their young prospects. but no one ever wants to look at that side of the penny, do they.

 

[Daisy Jane]

All of our 1 second?

we had 3
and all 3 are relatively close together.

so no matter how you slice it, what Warden is saying is that it's not giving up # 32, it's going to be middle to late 2nd no matter which one tampa gets

 

[Warden of the North]

All of our 1 second?

We have three, two of which are going in trades. San Jose, Ottawa, and our own. They're are all going to be pretty close to each other.

 

[PromisedLand]

Wrong, I'm not assuming anything.



Do the best we can and gain valuable experience in the process - what other answer could there possibly be?



Hyperbole. We didn't throw anything away, we made a trade.

You never answered my question - what value would you say there is to this team (if any) in making the playoffs?

There is value to be had in making the playoffs (IF) we make the playoffs. Playoff experience for the young guys would be good. That said, learning from past mistakes where leafs had made "deals" after we took boston to game 7 completely misjudging the team - is a mistake we should not be repeating.

yea 2nd rounder or a rental is not that "big" a mistake but throwing away OR trading a 2nd rounder for a 4th liner is pretty stupid.

whats the probability of a 4th liner having an impact on the playoff position(s) of a team and then on the playoff outcome?

 

[Confucius]

we had 3
and all 3 are relatively close together.

so no matter how you slice it, what Warden is saying is that it's not giving up # 32, it's going to be middle to late 2nd no matter which one tampa gets

So what if they were close together? Having 35+36 is better than having 35

 

[Warden of the North]

There is value to be had in making the playoffs (IF) we make the playoffs. Playoff experience for the young guys would be good. That said, learning from past mistakes where leafs had made "deals" after we took boston to game 7 completely misjudging the team - is a mistake we should not be repeating.

yea 2nd rounder or a rental is not that "big" a mistake but throwing away OR trading a 2nd rounder for a 4th liner is pretty stupid.

whats the probability of a 4th liner having an impact on the playoff position(s) of a team and then on the playoff outcome?

Whats the probability of the 50th overall pick becoming a star player?

 

[Daisy Jane]

There is value to be had in making the playoffs (IF) we make the playoffs. Playoff experience for the young guys would be good. That said, learning from past mistakes where leafs had made "deals" after we took boston to game 7 completely misjudging the team - is a mistake we should not be repeating.

yea 2nd rounder or a rental is not that "big" a mistake but throwing away OR trading a 2nd rounder for a 4th liner is pretty stupid.

whats the probability of a 4th liner having an impact on the playoff position(s) of a team and then on the playoff outcome?

but considering that we are losing what? 10 to 20 m of cap space this season - we're going to be making deals regardless if we make the playoffs or not.

and I would trust Lou/Shanahan to make proper decisions and not giving Chicago a call because Bolland made a cup winning goal, or giving Clarkson a 7m deal for 7 years. this is NOT the same management core.

 

[mallory67]

I like this trade if it means no more Hyman faceoffs in overtime.
For that alone I would give up a 2nd.

 

[Confucius]

Whats the probability of the 50th overall pick becoming a star player?

Half as good as having 50 and 51

 

[Gary Nylund]

One thing missing from your analysis is the potential "development value" accrued to Gauthier (a potential long term piece). You don't mention the winning in the playoffs… That is so, then Matthews/Nylaner/Marner/ Reilly
/Zaitsevg/Goat could all reap the rewards of the big stage experience. With another second rounder waiting in the wings...
Still not sure how I feel about this trade though. Boyle helps this year I think, but really so what... Im still excited to see how he adds though. Playoffs will be fun.

Yup, playoffs would provide very valuable experience. I wouldn't worry too much about losing a 2nd round pick, lots of time left until the draft which is supposed to be a weak one anyway. And Boyle might resign here as well. Stay tuned and trust our mngmnt team is my advice, that's what I'm doing anyway

And management since april has been saying they want the team to play meaningful games deep in march and april. because it will help their development. So even if the Leafs miss the playoffs - and the very easily could - hte fact that they aren't 15 points out of it and gunning for it - is something to be beneficial.

You are also discounting that Hunter can't find a "2nd round" type player - somewhere else. and we can sign him as a free agent.

you're also discounting that we can't trade for these pieces (or accquire them) when we trade Bozak and/or JVR.

You're also forgetting that we have a HUGE barn full of assets - and while I get that we want to continue to stuff it full - we also can't and not be expected to make SOME kind of move eventually.

I also honestly think - whatever "year" you want to put on the rebuild, the fundamentals of team building can't be ignored. yes. you want to draft extremely well, but you also want to sign well. and you have to trade well. We can not just build the team soley on draft picks, and be like 90 percent drafted players with 90 percent drafted players on the marlies, + McBackup, Carrick and Andersen (and Lepisic if he doesn't get claimed).

the Leafs make the playoffs, and that's 1 year exposure to what to expect in the playoff atmosphere. That's one step closer of knowing what the kids need to do to compete in the playoffs. and then to win a round. and then maybe next year (or the year after) - its okay we're in the second round, rinse, repeat.

being competitive doesn't hurt the rebuild, it doesn't set us back. it helps cultivate a winning culture (hell it will help people come here too). everyone keeps citing what Chicago + Kings didnt do. why don't we start citing what Florida and Edmonton didn't do for the longest time. Which was create a winning atmosphere for their young prospects. but no one ever wants to look at that side of the penny, do they.

Big and red because it deserves it.

 

[Warden of the North]

So what if they were close together? Having 35+36 is better than having 35

First, its not going to be 35th. Its more like 45-50.

2nd. I'd rather have one second round pick and valuable playoff experience then two 2nds at this point. We've had a ton of picks, and still do (including 2018).

 

[Rick74*]

I like this trade if it means no more Hyman faceoffs in overtime.
For that alone I would give up a 2nd.

Boyle isn't playing in overtime 3 v 3. He's. It a great skater.